Old Testament - seven extra books in Catholic Bibles

[Pete_Holter]

“and boasts that God is His Father” (Wisdom 2:16).

“Abba, Father…” (Mark 14:36).

“The Father loves the Son and shows Him all that He Himself is doing. And greater works than these will He show Him, so that you may marvel” (John 5:20).

“Let us see if His words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of His life; for if the Righteous Man is God’s Son, He will help Him, and will deliver Him from the hand of His adversaries. Let us test Him with insult and torture, that we may find out how gentle He is, and make trial of His forbearance. Let us condemn Him to a shameful death, for, according to what He says, He will be protected” (Wisdom 2:17-20).

“‘If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, “He will command His angels concerning You,” and “On their hands they will bear You up, lest You strike Your foot against a stone”’” (Matt 4:5-6; cf. Luke 4:9-11).

“I am gentle and lowly in heart” (Matt 11:29).

“God put [Christ Jesus] forward as a propitiation by His blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over former sins” (Rom 3:25).

“They stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him, and twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on His head and put a reed in His right hand. And kneeling before Him, they mocked Him, saying, ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ And they spit on Him and took the reed and struck Him on the head. And when they had mocked Him, they stripped Him of the robe and put His own clothes on Him and led Him away to crucify Him… ‘You Who would destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross.’ So also the chief priests, with the scribes and elders, mocked Him, saying, ‘He saved others; He cannot save Himself. He is the King of Israel; let Him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in Him. He trusts in God; let God deliver Him now, if He desires Him. For He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’ And the robbers who were crucified with Him also reviled Him in the same way” (Matt 27:28-31; 40-43).

“For the joy that was set before Him [He] endured the cross, despising the shame” (Heb 12:2).

“He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him” (Col 2:15).

A quick comment: There are two unexpected reversals here that bear pointing out: in putting the righteous man to the test with such tortures, they thought that they were exercising his forbearance. But when Jesus fulfills this prophecy, His suffering and death actually bring an end to the Divine forbearance, having passed over former sins unpunished, by punishing them in Jesus. The other twist is that the perpetrators thought that they had condemned the righteous man to a shameful death. But when Jesus fulfills this prophecy, He despises the shame for joy, and it is His enemies who end up chagrined by themselves being put to “open shame!”

“Thus they reasoned, but they were led astray, for their wickedness blinded them, and they did not know the secret purposes of God” (Wisdom 2:21-22).

“He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation” (John 11:51).

“Though He had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in Him, so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: ‘Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the Arm of the Lord been revealed?’ Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, ‘He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart’” (John 12:37-40).

“And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers. But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He thus fulfilled” (Acts 3:17-18).

“None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory” (1 Cor 2:8).

“Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good, because God tested them and found them worthy of Himself; like gold in the furnace He tried them” (Wisdom 3:5-6).

“He disciplines us for our good, that we may share His holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it” (Heb 12:10-11).

“For a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet 1:6-7).

 

[Pete_Holter]

“In the time of their visitation they will shine forth” (Wisdom 3:7).

“The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father” (Matt 13:41-43).

“[The Father] has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light” (Col 1:12).

“They [the righteous] will govern nations and rule over peoples, and the Lord will reign over them forever” (Wisdom 3:8).

“You who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Matt 19:28; cf. Luke 22:30).

“The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also conquered and sat down with My Father on His throne” (Rev 3:21).

“For blessed is the barren woman who is undefiled, who has not entered into a sinful union; she will have fruit when God examines souls. Blessed also is the eunuch whose hands have done no lawless deed, and who has not devised wicked things against the Lord; for special favor will be shown him for his faithfulness, and a place of great delight in the temple of the Lord” (Wisdom 3:13-14).

“There are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it” (Matt 19:12).

“No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless” (Rev 14:3-5).

“The end of an unrighteous generation is grievous” (Wisdom 3:19).

“An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here” (Matt 12:39-42; cf. Luke 11:29-32).

“For whoever is ashamed of Me and of My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels” (Mark 8:38).

“The righteous… will receive a glorious crown and a beautiful diadem from the hand of the Lord” (Wisdom 5:15-16).

“Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day” (2 Timothy 4:8).

“When the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory” (1 Pet 5:4).

“The Lord will take His zeal as His whole armor…; He will put on righteousness as a breastplate, and wear impartial justice as a helmet; He will take holiness as an invincible shield, and sharpen stern wrath for a sword” (Wisdom 5:17-20).

“Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God” (Eph 6:13-17).

“From His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations” (Rev 19:15).

“Severe judgment falls on those in high places. For the lowliest man may be pardoned in mercy, but mighty men will be mightily tested… a strict inquiry is in store for the mighty” (Wisdom 6:5-6, 8).

“That servant who knew his Master’s will but did not get ready or act according to His will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more” (Luke 12:47-48).

“Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness” (James 3:1).

“Love of [wisdom] is the keeping of her laws” (Wisdom 6:18).

“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

“Therefore I prayed, and understanding was given me; I called upon God, and the Spirit of Wisdom came to me” (Wisdom 7:7).

“If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, Who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him” (James 1:5).

“Because of [wisdom] I shall have glory and honor in the presence of the elders, though I am young. I shall be found keen in judgment, and in the sight of rulers I shall be admired” (Wisdom 8:10-11).

“After three days they found Him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. And all who heard Him were amazed at His understanding and His answers” (Luke 2:46-47).

 

[Pete_Holter]

“O God of my fathers and Lord of mercy, Who hast made all things by Thy Word…” (Wisdom 9:1).

“All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made” (John 1:3).

“For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through Him and for Him” (Col 1:16).

“Who has learned Thy counsel, unless Thou hast given wisdom and sent Thy Holy Spirit from on high?” (Wisdom 9:17).

“Among the mature we do impart wisdom, …a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory …] these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit Who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God” (1 Cor 2:6-7, 10-12).

“But Thou art merciful to all, for Thou canst do all things, and Thou dost overlook men’s sins, that they may repent” (Wisdom 11:23).

“Do you presume on the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?” (Rom 2:4).

“The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance” (2 Pet 3:9).

“Thy sovereignty over all causes Thee to spare all” (Wisdom 12:16).

“He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills. You will say to me then, ‘Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?’ But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?.. Note then the kindness and the severity of God… For God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all” (Rom 9:18-20; 11:22; 11:32).

“Therefore those who in folly of life lived unrighteously Thou didst torment through their own abominations. For they went far astray on the paths of error, accepting as gods those animals which even their enemies despised; they were deceived like foolish babes… they saw and recognized as the true God Him Whom they had before refused to know. Therefore the utmost condemnation came upon them. For all men who were ignorant of God were foolish by nature; and they were unable from the good things that are seen to know Him Who exists” (Wisdom 12:23-24; 12:27-13:1).

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things… And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness” (Rom 1:18-23; 1:28-29).

“And if men were amazed at [created things’] power and working, let them perceive from them how much more powerful is He Who formed them. For from the greatness and beauty of created things comes a corresponding perception of their Creator… Not even they are to be excused; for if they had the power to know so much that they could investigate the world, how did they fail to find sooner the Lord of these things?” (Wisdom 13:4-5; 8-9)

“For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.” (Rom 1:19-20).

 

[Pete_Holter]

“Blessed is the wood by which righteousness comes” (Wisdom 14:7).

“He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross; [and] by the one Man’s obedience the many will be made righteous” (Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19).

“Even if we sin we are Thine, knowing Thy power; but we will not sin, because we know that we are accounted Thine” (Wisdom 15:2).

If anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous… No one born of God commits sin; for God’s nature abides in Him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God. By this it may be seen who are the children of God” (1 John 2:1; 3:9-10).

“For to know Thee is complete righteousness” (Wisdom 15:3).

“Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life… And this is eternal life, that they know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou hast sent (Rom 5:20-21; John 17:3).

“Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For His sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know Him” (Phil 3:8-10).

“For when a Potter kneads the soft earth and laboriously molds each vessel for our service, He fashions out of the same clay both the vessels that serve clean uses and those for contrary uses, making all in like manner; but which shall be the use of each of these the Worker in Clay decides” (Wisdom 15:7).

“Will what is molded say to its Molder, ‘Why have You made me like this?’ Has the Potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory… So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills” (Rom 9:20-23; 9:18).

“He who turned toward [the bronze serpent] was saved, not by what he saw, but by Thee, the Savior of all… for neither herb nor poultice cured them, but it was Thy Word, O Lord, which heals all men” (Wisdom 16:7; 16:12).

“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him may have eternal life… For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day” (John 3:14-15; 6:40).

“For Thou hast power over life and death; Thou dost lead men down to the gates of Hades and back again. A man in his wickedness kills another, but he cannot bring back the departed spirit, nor set free the imprisoned soul” (Wisdom 16:13-14).

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the Righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which He went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey” (1 Pet 3:18:20).

A quick comment: this last comparison – in addition to providing background for understanding what is meant by “the spirits in prison” – seems to evince the fact that Christ is Divine because an implication that can be drawn from the passage in Wisdom is that God is the One Who does what Christ is described as doing in 1 Peter.

 

[littleone]

But you understand it now? God’s moral law = Sacred Scripture. The word lacks just means “doesn’t have” and never will have.

I’m not completely understanding your first sentence above, littleone. (The one I underlined). In response, I guess I’d say the Scriptures mean what they mean, regardless of our personal feelings about them. If we try to conform God’s word to our own feelings/interests, etc. then we’re basically saying that there is no absolute meaning to the Scriptures in themselves…their only relevancy lies in how we react to them.

Hi ac. your right and I understand where you are coming from now. We are on the same line “the scriptures are spirit given” and only those who the Spirit anointed are writen for our teaching, edification, salvation and saving grace for self and sharing with others.
Good for you

Godbless

 

[juliamajor]

The original post is pure propaganda. There isn’t a decent scholar out there of any religion, that says that the Catholic Church “added” seven books after Trent.To say it is an absurd claim is to put it mildly.That’s my two cents on that- and I won’t say anymore about it, because by discussing it your giving credence and a dignity that it doesn’t deserve.Give it what it deserves-a blank page!

 

[guanophore]

Hi ac. your right and I understand where you are coming from now. We are on the same line “the scriptures are spirit given” and only those who the Spirit anointed are writen for our teaching, edification, salvation and saving grace for self and sharing with others.
Good for you

Godbless

Does that mean that everyone who receives the annointing will be in agreement about the meaning of the words?

 

[guanophore]

The original post is pure propaganda. There isn’t a decent scholar out there of any religion, that says that the Catholic Church “added” seven books after Trent.To say it is an absurd claim is to put it mildly.That’s my two cents on that- and I won’t say anymore about it, because by discussing it your giving credence and a dignity that it doesn’t deserve.Give it what it deserves-a blank page!

I will agree with you that Ginger2 has been influenced by a substantial amount of anti-Catholic propoganda. However, she really did believe when she wrote that post that what she was saying was true. If you read the thread, you will find that she later acceded that these books were contained prior to Trent. Of course, she was unable to accept the Apostolic Teaching, but was able through study to realize that the books were not “added at Trent” but had been part of the disputed sacred literature from the beginning.

The thread I think was helpful to many who did not know the why there were differences between the bibles. I just read recently on another thread where a Protestant asserted that Catholics don’t use an “authorized” version of the bible, and that is why it has too many books.

 

[kimmielittle]

I just read recently on another thread where a Protestant asserted that Catholics don’t use an “authorized” version of the bible, and that is why it has too many books.

wiping of my monitor and chin

 

[guanophore]

wiping of my monitor and chin

Sorry, hope I did not make coffee come out your nose!

:coffeeread:

 

[kimmielittle]

Sorry, hope I did not make coffee come out your nose!

:coffeeread:

~gigglin~ I think soda is worse than coffee

 

[Always_For_Him]

I just read recently on another thread where a Protestant asserted that Catholics don’t use an “authorized” version of the bible, and that is why it has too many books.

This is just proof that denominations teach their own teachings and interpretations of Scripture as well as Church history, and that they are blindly following their church’s teachings. The Catholic Church has documented it every step of the way and all anyone has to do is read/research it. Just a cursory look into it outside of what their own denomination has them to believe should prove to them that their denomination has been teaching this in error. The proof is there in historically recorded documentation.

 

[KLIBERA]

Note Also That The Catholic Old Testament Is The Jewish Bible Because It Includes The Heroine Stories Of Judith, Ruth, & Esther Plus The Hero Judas Maccabeus. Also Tobit-another Famous Prophet.

 

[guanophore]

Note Also That The Catholic Old Testament Is The Jewish Bible Because It Includes The Heroine Stories Of Judith, Ruth, & Esther Plus The Hero Judas Maccabeus. Also Tobit-another Famous Prophet.

There were several Jewish collections at the time. The Catholic Church uses the collection that was used by the Apostles, which is the Alexandrian Canon. The Protestants use the collection adopted by the Jews that rejected Jesus.

 

[Light_Seeker]

Just a cursory look into it outside of what their own denomination has them to believe should prove to them that their denomination has been teaching this in error. The proof is there in historically recorded documentation.

Yup. It’s always amazed me how little Protestants know about Church history. But then, they don’t really want to teach that in their churches, do they? They’d all be signing up for RCIA

 

[toledojeff]

I discussed this in another thread, and suddenly the thread was deleted without any given reason. So I’ll try again…

Catholics have seven extra books in their Bible. These books are called “deuterocanonical” They are in the Old Testament. (The New Testament is the same for both Catholics and Protestants.)

The books are: Sirach, Tobit, Wisdom, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and Baruch, (and longer versions of Daniel and Esther)

I believe Catholics added these books as a counter measure against the split caused by Martin Luther.

this is not correct, Jerome Had this Idea that since it was written in greek instead of hebrew when he translated these books into latin they should not be in there. The truth is they were written in hebrew then at some piont translated into greek. Luthur knew he could not change these books but aggreed with Jerome and put these books in the Luthurn bible only as good reading in the apendix. Later in Germany when bibles were being made these books were left out becouse they took up to much room. More than likely they were deleted becouse they were worried these book could convert people back to Catholicism. Good books to read about pergatory and praying for the dead.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

I discussed this in another thread, and suddenly the thread was deleted without any given reason. So I’ll try again…

Catholics have seven extra books in their Bible. These books are called “deuterocanonical” They are in the Old Testament. (The New Testament is the same for both Catholics and Protestants.)

The books are: Sirach, Tobit, Wisdom, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and Baruch, (and longer versions of Daniel and Esther)

I believe Catholics added these books as a counter measure against the split caused by Martin Luther.

I would suggest the work of a key contemporary researcher, the Protestant scholar Albert C. Sundberg, Jr.

His conclusions are essentially these: at the time of Christ Israel certainly had scriptures: the Torah, Prophets, and Psalms were universally considered to be inspired and authoritative. However, Israel did not have a canon understood as a fixed, closed list of inspired scriptures.

Sundberg writes that “the church received ‘scriptures’ from Judaism but not a canon.” “The Bible and the Christian Doctrine of Inspiration.” Interpretation 29 (October 1975): 356, 358.] He goes on, based on evidence amassed in this article and his works below, “we now know that the Jewish canon [post-90 AD] was not the scriptures of Jesus and the apostles.” (358)

Further, he notes elsewhere, “Two different communities [the Jewish and Christian] were involved in defining canons out of the common material of pre-70 Judaism.” “The Old Testament of the Early Church,” Catholic Biblical Quarterly 28 (April 1966): 201] “In the days of Jesus and the apostles, the status of the Jewish canon (and this prevailed throughout Judaism) was that of a closed collection of Law, a closed collection of Prophets, and a large undifferentiated number of Jewish religious writings consisting of a later defined collection of ‘Writings,’ the books later called Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha, other books known to us only by name, and perhaps other books unknown and lost. And it was this canonical situation that passed from Judaism to Christianity as the Scriptures of the early Church.” (199)

No scholarly authority claims that the OT canon for the Christian community was definitively set in the early Church. They indicate that the larger canon is testified to in the early Church by numerous witnesses, had its dissenters, grew in acceptance, was affirmed at the Council of Florence (1438-45) in 1442 and reaffirmed by the Council of Trent (1545-63). Given the lack of clear agreement concerning the canon, Florence and Trent acted to discern in the Holy Spirit which books belong to the OT canon.

I would also point out that although the infallibility of the decree from the Council of Florence listing the books of the canon may be debatable, several things are significant about it.

(1) The list itself is identical to Trent’s.

(2) It’s 75 years before Luther’s 95 Theses; and over 100 yrs before the Council of Trent even began.

 

[mandela]

This is false. There is no evidence Jesus nor the Apostles ever quoted the Septuagint. They Septuagint is a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures as well as non-inspired and secular writings

I agree with you. I believe that most of what the catholic church fabricates are meant to counter and cover up whatever Luther exposed. God is great in the sense that he never let her twist the prophecies that are being revealed today and point directly at her. There are 66 books in the bible and that is it. I mean the rest were not inspired, they were written after Luther. I am not surprised it is catholics in this theread who claim that they actually existed before Luther. C’mon, of course that is what the church will tell you. Open your eyes for onw moment. The church has power to twist history so why not.

 

[irishpatrick]

I agree with you. I believe that most of what the catholic church fabricates are meant to counter and cover up whatever Luther exposed. God is great in the sense that he never let her twist the prophecies that are being revealed today and point directly at her. There are 66 books in the bible and that is it. I mean the rest were not inspired, they were written after Luther. I am not surprised it is catholics in this theread who claim that they actually existed before Luther. C’mon, of course that is what the church will tell you. Open your eyes for onw moment. The church has power to twist history so why not.

This is patently false. Three early church councils set the Canon of Scripture, and it included all 73 books that the Catholic Church properly holds. The 73 not only existed before Luther, it is historical fact that Luther removed seven of those books because under his personal interpretation and rule setting, he did not PERSONALLY accept those seven books.

It is one thing to reject the decisions of the early church–it is quite another thing to deny historical, provable, fact.