Old Testament

[Abyssinia]

In the Old Testament, is is true that Yahweh like a tribal deity in that that nation or tribe created the concept of God in order to collect all of their ideas and their personalty and their worldview and they deify this world view and actually say it was God who came up with these traditions and customs and laws. So this is why you have Yahweh saying that the Israelites probably wanted to take over the land and made up the idea of God to justify what the where doing, and glorify it?

Is the violence that takes places in the Old Testament supposed to be historical? How do you explain it?

 

[davidv]

In the Old Testament, is is true that Yahweh like a tribal deity in that that nation or tribe created the concept of God in order to collect all of their ideas and their personalty and their worldview and they deify this world view and actually say it was God who came up with these traditions and customs and laws.

No this is not true. God is not a concept. God IS. God is the creator. God is a person. God is a Trinity who revealed Himself to mankind.

So this is why you have Yahweh saying that the Israelites probably wanted to take over the land and made up the idea of God to justify what the where doing, and glorify it?

You are expressing a very faulty understanding of the OT. I’d strongly suggest that you do some serious study of ancient covenants.

Is the violence that takes places in the Old Testament supposed to be historical? How do you explain it?

The OT is the inspired word of God. To understand it, it must be read in context of the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[yinandyang]

Abyssinia, I would like to start out by saying that you’re honesty and openness with regards to your questions and comments shows a wonderful comitment and resolve to seeking out the truth about our Catholic faith. I’ve always believed that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. God doesn’t want us to simply “check our brains at the door” when it comes to Christianity. It is natural, and completely healthy spiritually, to have a longing within us to want to understand the truth about God and His ways in a greater fashion, in order for us to grow as Christians and disciples of Christ.

That being said, you’re original thread did worry me a bit with regards to your overall views/interpretations of what is written in Sacred Scripture, and also your view on Christianity as a whole. We as Catholics believe that the Bible (that is both the Old Testament and the New Testament) was written by God, through men. It was not written by men who “made up God” in order to support their own worldviews at the time. The Jews, with whom the Old Covenant was made, did not create Yahweh for their own political and philosopical ideas. Simply put, the order of your thinking process is backwards. God was the One who revealed Himself to the Jews, and then instructed them on His truth, His ways, and His Law. The Jews then obeyed God by taking over the Promised Land etc. For a person to believe otherwise would be denying the existance of the Christian God spoken about in the Bible. It would turn the Holy Trinity into nothing more than a made up lie, which was thus promulgated by a group of people (that is, the Jews) in order to justify their actions. This would, consequently, make Sacred Scripture nothing more than mere fiction, casting It down from It’s rightful place of being the inspired Word of the One, True, God.

I realize, as I hope you do, that faith is required to believe the infallability of the Bible, but you do list yourself as being a Catholic, so I’m going to assume that you believe and have faith in the Roman Catholic Church on some level. However, I’m not quite sure what that level would exactly entail, when examining your questions and comments. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God and that He died on the cross, for us and our redemption, 2000 years ago? If so, why do you believe this if you feel that it is possible for God the Father to be a mere concept?

If you don’t believe that Jesus Christ is God, then why do you consider yourself a Christian? Christians, as the word implies, are followers of Christ. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament, both go hand-in-hand. Also the Magesterium of the Catholc Church infallably teaches that God the Father (Yahweh) is actually real and is the first person of the Holy Trinity. It was the Magesterium who infallably came up with the canon of Sacred Scripture, and Holy Mother Church teaches us that the Bible was writen by God, through men, and is infallable with regards to faith and morals. Do you believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church’s Magesterium (I would assume you do, basing this assumption on the fact that, once again, who do list yourself as being a Catholic)? If you do believe in the Catholic Church’s teachings, in general, then you must, specifically, believe that Yahweh does actually exist and that He really is God.

(Continued in next post)

 

[yinandyang]

(Continued from previous post)

I’m not exactly sure where your faith lies, or why you consider yourself to be a Catholic, and yet have questions and comments such as these on basic principles and elements regarding the Catholic faith. I do not mean to be offensive or rude, I’m just trying to understand where you are coming from. It would seem to me that your basic comprehension of the Fullness of Truth of our Catholic faith is quite limited. This is nothing to be ashamed of, of course. No one was born with any of the theological knowledge that they now possess. Everyone had to learn the truth about God throughout their own lifetimes here on earth thus far. We were all in the same boat you find yourself in now. You having the courage to put forth your ideas and questions for all to see is very inspiring and is something which God is extremely proud of you for doing, in that you are seeking to know and understand Him better, even if it is indirectly right now. Never fear asking questions. Anyone who ridicules or mocks you for doing so is just a very arrogant individual who has forgotten that he/she too was once without the theological knowledge they now possess.

But getting back to your specific points, Yahweh really is God. He really is a part of the Holy Trinity, not just a made up concept for the Jewish people’s benefit. He has always existed, along with God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit. The entire Bible (both the Old Testament and the New Testament) is infallable in what It says and teaches with regards to faith and morals. Sacred Scripture is the inspired Word of God (along with Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium of the Catholic Church’s infallable teachings). To believe otherwise is to deny the Catholic faith. I would suggest that you read and study the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as the writings of the Church Fathers, in order to help you more deeply understand these beliefs. Here is the Vatican’s website where you can access the Catechism, as well as the Catholic Bible:

vatican.va/archive/index.htm

Also, you should read these apologetic tracts from the faith section of this website’s homepage. They include writings from the Church Fathers, as well as great explanations on the Holy Trinity:

catholic.com/library/god_christ.asp

With regards to your question about the historical accuracy of the Old Testament, I would suggest the following links:

This Rock Catholic magazine:

catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0805fea4.asp

Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraphs 121-123, specifically paragraph 122 and footnote 94- Dei Verbum 15:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PR.HTM

Vatican II document Dei Verbum, specifically paragraph 15 found within chapter 4, and footnote 1 of chapter 4- Pius XI, encyclical 'Mit Brennender Sorge," March 14, 1937: A.A.S. 29 (1937) p. 51:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

Pius XI, encyclical 'Mit Brennender Sorge," March 14, 1937, specifically paragraphs 15-16:

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge_en.html

With regards to your question about how one explains the violence found in the Old Testament, I would have to ask you to be more specific here and list some examples in order for me to accurately answer your question(s) in detail.

Also, if there are any other specific questions you have, please don’t hesitate to ask.

I hope that helps.

May God bless you and Mary keep you in her prayers always.

YinandYang