"Older" Male Virgins

[GraceUnderFire]

I second what everyone here has said about the value of honesty. If you have concerns about how much chastity is implied by his virginity, I would wait for an opportune time to ask him about his take on things like masturbation and pornography. If your relationship progresses, you will need to talk about bigger things than that, and if you are charitable with your questions and compassionate with your responses, hopefully he will respect your honesty and your concerns.

Thank you. IMO, I think it’s good to know up front if we are on the same page about chastity because if I’m waiting for marriage and he has been sexually active in his last 3 relationships and doesn’t see the problem, there’s no point in moving forward. I think the more detailed questions should probably not be asked until a friendship/courtship is established and the relationship is moving before engagement. I know there are question books out there but I have no idea if they go into that level of detail. I’m not going to condemn anyone–I just want honesty.

No. Many men struggle with the same issues, both inside and outside of relationships.

More importantly, what you DID and how much you DID it are far less important than what you are DOING about it and how much you are DOING about it. There’s nothing shameful about an honest confession and an honest effort to “sin no more.” Take heart in that!

Exactly. No one is perfect. It’s the current attitude about chastity that is more telling.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

Grace, I must say, thanks for asking the tough questions! I think what is hard for us as women is to know that maybe we are more likely to have to accept more in a man’s “past” (and maybe occasional lapses in his “present”) than a man is with us. This may have changed somewhat in recent decades as some women don’t behave very ladylike either.

But let’s face it, we don’t have to contend with quite so much in terms of anatomy, visual stimulus temptation, peer pressure, etc. as most guys. This is a generalization so imperfect, and women face temptation too, not saying we don’t. But unless we’ve been really promiscuous or are “looking for love in the wrong places,” it seems like we can resist temptation against purity more easily.

I’d want to know that I could trust a potential husband about. I’d want to know he was trying if he did have a temptation issue - even if it would be difficult to hear, better that than being lied to. But it would be so cool if there were a larger pool of men who were chaste and it was seen as a normal thing - not something that would make a gal wonder: Is he secretly gay? Is he sneaking around with other women, or looking at unsavory websites?

Also, there are concerns about men who have been “experienced” - wondering, would he not be comparing me to some old girlfriend? Wanting me to do things I’m not comfortable with, etc.?

Thanks for your perspective. I just hope God sends me the right man. This is not the only criteria, obviously, but it IS important to me. sigh this is so discouraging.

 

[RoseMary131]

Thank you. I pray often for his purity. Ultimately, if I felt a man was from God, I believe He would help me to deal with whatever his past is.

What a beautiful gift your prayers for his purity are to him. Thank you for sharing that. I’m sure God will help you just as you said - with accepting this beautiful man from God.

May you have peace in your heart as you wait on God’s timing for this man to be known to you.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Grace, I must say, thanks for asking the tough questions! I think what is hard for us as women is to know that maybe we are more likely to have to accept more in a man’s “past” (and maybe occasional lapses in his “present”) than a man is with us. This may have changed somewhat in recent decades as some women don’t behave very ladylike either.

But let’s face it, we don’t have to contend with quite so much in terms of anatomy, visual stimulus temptation, peer pressure, etc. as most guys. This is a generalization so imperfect, and women face temptation too, not saying we don’t. But unless we’ve been really promiscuous or are “looking for love in the wrong places,” it seems like we can resist temptation against purity more easily.

I’d want to know that I could trust a potential husband about. I’d want to know he was trying if he did have a temptation issue - even if it would be difficult to hear, better that than being lied to. But it would be so cool if there were a larger pool of men who were chaste and it was seen as a normal thing - not something that would make a gal wonder: Is he secretly gay? Is he sneaking around with other women, or looking at unsavory websites?

Also, there are concerns about men who have been “experienced” - wondering, would he not be comparing me to some old girlfriend? Wanting me to do things I’m not comfortable with, etc.?

If you look at biology and compare males to females it is like God was intentionally trying to screw men over in terms of purity.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

If you look at biology and compare males to females it is like God was intentionally trying to screw men over in terms of purity.

Actually it was a very SMART design. As usual, humans have messed it up. A man’s sexual drive was designed to get him to settle down and marry. Now, men have access to easy sex, contracepted sex (ie “risk free”), porn, and the view that masturbation simply “natural.” So, God’s design isn’t the problem. Sin is.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

What a beautiful gift your prayers for his purity are to him. Thank you for sharing that. I’m sure God will help you just as you said - with accepting this beautiful man from God.

May you have peace in your heart as you wait on God’s timing for this man to be known to you.

Thank you dear RoseMary. I know some think it’s silly to pray for a man I don’t even know exists. I do myself sometimes but I still do it. The thought of grace showering down on a man before I even know him is so inspiring to me. However, since it’s possible that marriage may not happen, I always ask God to distribute this grace to whoever He seem fit if there is no future husband. So I believe these prayers are not in vain.

 

[chevalier]

I think it’s amazing if a heterosexual man is still a virgin beyond the age of 30, especially given the sexually charged climate we live in. However, do you think that such a man, although he is a virgin, likely

• engages in acts of impurity
• watches pornography
  to relieve some of the tension?

I know that you can’t generalize, but when a guy says he’s a virgin, I immediate think “good for you!” then “but how are you able to stay totally chaste?”

Is it possible for a man who desires marriage to be *totally *chaste? Or is that unrealistic to expect? Should I be disappointed if a guy I’m dating is a virgin but struggles with those other issues? Is that uncharitable? Please be easy on me–although I’m an “older” virgin woman, I have no idea what it must be like for a man, which is why I asked. I just don’t want to be a jerk about something that’s somewhat understandable i.e. occasionally falling into impurity despite best efforts to stay pure (although still a mortal sin). I hope my question makes sense LOL.

He has the same human emotions that you do. Few people are asexual and if one’s not asexual, the absence of temptation is practically impossible. How one deals with it is what matters. One is not impure for merely needing to reject temptations that appear without invitation.

Also, a man is not necessarily any more impure than a woman, the suggestion is quite insulting in fact, although I know you didn’t intend it that way and I’m not taking offence. I’m just telling you how it feels.

If you look at biology and compare males to females it is like God was intentionally trying to screw men over in terms of purity.

We must be looking at different men and women obviously. Seriously, various attempts at research into comparative libido levels and such stuff tend to contradict each other.

 

[ExLibris]

I’ve seen a couple of threads like this. I’m always interested that males who gamble their eternal soul on fornication, an act that requires they assist someone else doing the same, are assumed to not masturbate as much as their virgin counterparts. Why is it the virgin gets this unfair assumption cast upon him?

Let’s turn it around…

If someone is NOT a virgin and unmarried, then let me lay out my personal assumptions.

1. He doesn’t take his faith seriously. The fornicator apologists will no doubt say “I was young and stupid!” So people should discount you for your irrational reckless behavior? Should society dismiss you for your lack of self-control?
2. He won’t make a good husband. After all, did he not prepare for the day he would meet his wife? Did he not wait long enough to make sure she was the woman he would marry? What kind of lustful heathen can’t control himself?
3. His sexual passions must be out of control, so he must look at pornography. Surely, someone who would stoop so low as to throw away their virginity must have acted on powerful impulses to overcome his otherwise pure mind, no?
4. If he committed adultery before, then surely he must do it again. “But I’ve changed!!!” Really? How do I know? For all I know he only “changed” because his sexual capital decreased and he was unable to continue his sinful lifestyle.

(Usage of masculine pronoun is a matter of style in the above)

On and on it goes. Most would take issue with this list. But I ask how it is any different than assuming an older virgin male masturbates?

Personally, I find the idea of assuming a virgin must commit other sins to “compensate” for his lack of sin in a particular area unfair. It’s basically shaming someone for being a virgin. I mean, come on, someone has to be some sort of sexually deviant freak if he does not lose his virginity outside of marriage? Meanwhile, the numerous men who claim to have “changed” and “turned away from the path” are given a free pass in the area of sinning alone against chastity?

Do we assume outwardly nonviolent people harbor abnormally violent thoughts? No.

 

[bsf]

……But let’s face it, we don’t have to contend with quite so much in terms of anatomy, visual stimulus temptation, peer pressure, etc. as most guys…… it seems like we can resist temptation against purity more easily……

If you look at biology and compare males to females it is like God was intentionally trying to screw men over in terms of purity.

I am male and disturbed by these above comments.

---

Is it possible for a man who desires marriage to be *totally *chaste? Yes.
Or is that unrealistic to expect? Yes.
Should I be disappointed if a guy I’m dating is a virgin but struggles with those other issues? Yes.
Is that uncharitable? No.
I just don’t want to be a jerk about something that’s somewhat understandable i.e. occasionally falling into impurity despite best efforts to stay pure (although still a mortal sin). Do not be a jerk, then. Let us define “jerk” as someone who pursues un-Christian thoughts or displays un-Christian behavior towards another. Having neither lax nor stringent standards makes you a jerk IMO. In theory, I think you can choose to not pursue relations with men that are non-virgins and/or currently falter w/ respect to chastity w/o being uncharitable. You may never get married, though. OTOH, pursuing someone with a horribly un-chaste past could expose you to sexual temptation. Or, you find someone with a horribly un-chaste past who is now rock solid not w/ regards to chastity, and committed to remaining chaste through single life or marriage. Or…… bla bla bla…to infinity and beyond. Pray and go to Mass much. Good luck.

 

[Luminous7]

“Personally, I find the idea of assuming a virgin must commit other sins to “compensate” for his lack of sin in a particular area unfair. It’s basically shaming someone for being a virgin. I mean, come on, someone has to be some sort of sexually deviant freak if he does not lose his virginity outside of marriage?”

I guess when something becomes the new normal (leisurely sex outside marriage) then the conservative Christian is the odd man out in society - or freak as you put it. It’s even getting to the point where if you’re over 30 and are not in a relationship (and most view being in a relationship as also being sexually active with the person) then you must be gay.

And since we’re on the topic, how do you know that God sent a person into your life when you seem to have a steady stream of them coming through. How do you know it wasn’t the devil that sent this person to deceive you?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I would guess that about 99% of heterosexual, non-asexual men, Catholic or not, have masturbated by their mid-teens. Furthermore, I would bet that a similar percentage of those men struggle with sexual temptations repeatedly throughout their teens, twenties and beyond.

Whether they actually sin or not is another question, but to be a male and not sin in this way? That takes either an asexual or a true Saint.

Seriously, if you’re a heterosexual, non-asexual male that isn’t tempted to hump the couch pillows throughout your teens and twenties then God bless you, you have nerves of steel.

I think that many females simply do not understand how strong these male urges are. They are no joke. Asking a non-asexual man to never give in to sexual temptation is like asking a woman to never go shopping for shoes. It still** doesn’t excuse sin**, of course, but let’s be honest here.

Luminous7:

And since we’re on the topic, how do you know that God sent a person into your life when you seem to have a steady stream of them coming through. How do you know it wasn’t the devil that sent this person to deceive you?

Um… how would you know that even if it WAS the first person that came into your life?

3DOCTORS:

I’d want to know that I could trust a potential husband about. I’d want to know he was trying if he did have a temptation issue - even if it would be difficult to hear, better that than being lied to. But it would be so cool if there were a larger pool of men who were chaste and it was seen as a normal thing - not something that would make a gal wonder: Is he secretly gay? Is he sneaking around with other women, or looking at unsavory websites?

I wish we could re-define chaste as “fervent dedication to chastity,” not necessarily “flawless,” especially in this day and age in the West where we are pushing marriage back further and further into our late 20’s and 30’s.

 

[Eude]

I think that you should keep your standards as high as what you are confortable with.
To me, every men are not equal regardind chastity as well as in any other field (fasting, sports, music or whatever). Due to their “natural gifts” and their life experience, it may be easier for some people to stay chaste than for others.
What I think is the most important to consider is how much a man seriously strives to stay chaste and be a good man in every other aspects of life.
In any case, I would not blame you if you were to stop considering a man because of his acts of impurity. I would not think it is uncharitable.
You know that no man is perfect and everybody has his own sensitivity regarding someone’s imperfections.

 

[Anglewannabe]

As others have said, it is not the sins a man commits but his attitude towards them. If he honestly sees nothing wrong with pornography and masturbation, then I would walk away. If he admits to sometimes falling but trying to lead a better life (and when I say trying I mean avoids friends who take out porn in front of him), then he is human and you need to understand that is why God gave us the sacrament of reconciliation.

Now, if he is a sex addict and REALLY struggling to change yet falls a lot, sadly, I would recommend walking away. It takes a really strong woman to stand by a man like that and unless you are married and have a history of good times together or kids for which you wish to save the marriage, I don’t think there is enough incentive to help him without becoming bitter.

But my concern is a bit deeper. This appears to be a hypothetical a question and not an existing boyfriend. I have to wonder why you are so concerned. I think there is something deeper bothering you. Just my opinion

Angie

 

[jimmy]

If you are looking for squeeky clean, you will end up disappointed that we are all sotted up. Squeeky clean ascended to heaven 2000 years ago. Look instead for someone who is trying to be a good man. There is a standard we all try to imitate, but we are only varying approximations of it. None of us lives up to the standard.

 

[Auntie_A]

Perhaps you are trying to discern if someone would be potentially “faithful” in a marriage? Look for his commitment in life to friends, family, work, church, community. What would matter to me is if he is mature; independent; employed (or at least “employable” in this crazy job market; hard working; faithful to God and humanity; RESPECTFUL but not too friendly to the opposite sex, unless they are family; good to his family even if they are greatly flawed; and, interested in me, respectful to me, and interested in marriage and all that that would entail.

I wouldn’t want him to be too eager or I would think that he was wanting ANYONE rather than ME in particular. A bit feisty is good. A bit stubborn is good. Able to withhold some details of his past–we don’t need to know the whole track record…if he messed up in the past I want to see that he is contrite, reformed, and that he has disciplined his wandering eye and has good boundaries with others. A good man is better than a nice one. Able to express affection, even if shy or grumpy. A strong commitment to a sacramental life, especially to regular confession and communion. A developed conscience! Some humor.

If you look for this stuff, you don’t need to go worrying or prying into his past private issues. You can respect him for who he is now, not who he was.

But I really appreciate your asking these questions. Forgive me gentlemen, but the double standard went on for too long. It is refreshing to ask if single men can be sexually continent in an age where everyone is counting their lists of sexual conquests, complaining of how long between “acts” and basically being indiscriminate. And yes, women can be asked similar questions, too.

I think it’s a sane society that encourages chaste behavior.

 

[Greg_N]

If you are looking for squeeky clean, you will end up disappointed that we are all sotted up. Squeeky clean ascended to heaven 2000 years ago. Look instead for someone who is trying to be a good man. There is a standard we all try to imitate, but we are only varying approximations of it. None of us lives up to the standard.

Squeaky clean is sitting in the tabernacle at your local Catholic parish baby.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

I’ve seen a couple of threads like this. I’m always interested that males who gamble their eternal soul on fornication, an act that requires they assist someone else doing the same, are assumed to not masturbate as much as their virgin counterparts. Why is it the virgin gets this unfair assumption cast upon him?

Let’s turn it around…

If someone is NOT a virgin and unmarried, then let me lay out my personal assumptions.

1. He doesn’t take his faith seriously. The fornicator apologists will no doubt say “I was young and stupid!” So people should discount you for your irrational reckless behavior? Should society dismiss you for your lack of self-control?
2. He won’t make a good husband. After all, did he not prepare for the day he would meet his wife? Did he not wait long enough to make sure she was the woman he would marry? What kind of lustful heathen can’t control himself?
3. His sexual passions must be out of control, so he must look at pornography. Surely, someone who would stoop so low as to throw away their virginity must have acted on powerful impulses to overcome his otherwise pure mind, no?
4. If he committed adultery before, then surely he must do it again. “But I’ve changed!!!” Really? How do I know? For all I know he only “changed” because his sexual capital decreased and he was unable to continue his sinful lifestyle.

(Usage of masculine pronoun is a matter of style in the above)

On and on it goes. Most would take issue with this list. But I ask how it is any different than assuming an older virgin male masturbates?

Personally, I find the idea of assuming a virgin must commit other sins to “compensate” for his lack of sin in a particular area unfair. It’s basically shaming someone for being a virgin. I mean, come on, someone has to be some sort of sexually deviant freak if he does not lose his virginity outside of marriage? Meanwhile, the numerous men who claim to have “changed” and “turned away from the path” are given a free pass in the area of sinning alone against chastity?

Do we assume outwardly nonviolent people harbor abnormally violent thoughts? No.

I have a very high respect for men who have held out and I apologize if my question made it seem otherwise. I guess, I see very few men holding out so, sadly, it’s easy to question the men who do…Society has it all twisted.

When there are so many unwilling to wait, I want to know what is it about a man that does make him wait? I’m sure someone could say the same thing about an older woman who’s a virgin but I’m not aroused simply by looking at a man’s body, so in a way it’s “easier.” You said: “personally, I find the idea of assuming a virgin must commit other sins to “compensate” for his lack of sin in a particular area unfair. It’s basically shaming someone for being a virgin.” Yes, this is what I was wondering, if a man necessarily “compensates” in other ways and although it was a question, not an assumption, it was unfair.

Anyway, this wasn’t a subtle attempt to bash older male virgins. I wish there were more men who felt exactly the way you do.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

Perhaps you are trying to discern if someone would be potentially “faithful” in a marriage? Look for his commitment in life to friends, family, work, church, community. What would matter to me is if he is mature; independent; employed (or at least “employable” in this crazy job market; hard working; faithful to God and humanity; RESPECTFUL but not too friendly to the opposite sex, unless they are family; good to his family even if they are greatly flawed; and, interested in me, respectful to me, and interested in marriage and all that that would entail.

I wouldn’t want him to be too eager or I would think that he was wanting ANYONE rather than ME in particular. A bit feisty is good. A bit stubborn is good. Able to withhold some details of his past–we don’t need to know the whole track record…if he messed up in the past I want to see that he is contrite, reformed, and that he has disciplined his wandering eye and has good boundaries with others. A good man is better than a nice one. Able to express affection, even if shy or grumpy. A strong commitment to a sacramental life, especially to regular confession and communion. A developed conscience! Some humor.

If you look for this stuff, you don’t need to go worrying or prying into his past private issues. You can respect him for who he is now, not who he was.

But I really appreciate your asking these questions. Forgive me gentlemen, but the double standard went on for too long. It is refreshing to ask if single men can be sexually continent in an age where everyone is counting their lists of sexual conquests, complaining of how long between “acts” and basically being indiscriminate. And yes, women can be asked similar questions, too.

I think it’s a sane society that encourages chaste behavior.

Thank you for replying. I didn’t realize it until you said it but I think this was the underpinning question. There is so much sexual sin out there that I think I do worry about infidelity because I know that infidelity is so rampant in society. And it’s almost accepted!

 

[GraceUnderFire]

As others have said, it is not the sins a man commits but his attitude towards them. If he honestly sees nothing wrong with pornography and masturbation, then I would walk away. If he admits to sometimes falling but trying to lead a better life (and when I say trying I mean avoids friends who take out porn in front of him), then he is human and you need to understand that is why God gave us the sacrament of reconciliation.

**Now, if he is a sex addict and REALLY struggling to change yet falls a lot, sadly, I would recommend walking away. ** It takes a really strong woman to stand by a man like that and unless you are married and have a history of good times together or kids for which you wish to save the marriage, I don’t think there is enough incentive to help him without becoming bitter.

But my concern is a bit deeper. This appears to be a hypothetical a question and not an existing boyfriend. I have to wonder why you are so concerned. I think there is something deeper bothering you. Just my opinion

Angie

I don’t know what made me ask the question. . .I think about marriage a lot and I think that maybe I’m expecting too much and that no guy can possibly live up to that standard . Then I get disappointed.

I definitely think it’s important to discern if a man is either not interested in chastity at all, if he is normal and has normal male struggles, or if he has an addiction. At this point, I would only be interested in the 2nd man. I’m NOT expecting perfection, as I’m in no way perfect myself. However, this area is just really really important to me.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

I think that you should keep your standards as high as what you are confortable with.
To me, every men are not equal regardind chastity as well as in any other field (fasting, sports, music or whatever). Due to their “natural gifts” and their life experience, it may be easier for some people to stay chaste than for others.
What I think is the most important to consider is how much a man seriously strives to stay chaste and be a good man in every other aspects of life.
In any case, I would not blame you if you were to stop considering a man because of his acts of impurity. I would not think it is uncharitable.
You know that no man is perfect and everybody has his own sensitivity regarding someone’s imperfections.

Thank you. Great comments.