Olive Oil Fasting Question

[Madaglan]

In the Byzantine tradition, when the fast calls for no olive oil, does this mean that you can’t eat olives whole as well?

 

[Madaglan]

…and what would the Coptic tradition be as well?

I served subs tonight at a pan-Orthodox event. The subs were meatless and cheeseless, but there were some black olives in them. Was that wrong?

 

[German_Melkite]

I do not know the answer to such a question - but I find the idea of it most interesting. The prohibition was - I believe - to take something central to life - eating - and make it “difficult for God.” A sacrifice that would focus the religious to think before they acted. Olive oil was prohibited - not because there was anything special about the pressings from an olive - but because it was central to making the types of foods people ate.

I am allergic to olives and olive oil. The stuff would kill me. I can not even think about eating olives without starting to itch. So avoiding olive oil for me would not be much of “gift to God.”

Unless one’s goal is checking on the historic food practices of a given religious group - I am not sure there is much benefit in trying to decide if a prohibition on olive oil would also include olives.

What would be a better approach might be - what is most central to my life? And can I abstain from that so I will constantly be reminded of my Lord and the sacrifices He made for all of mankind. I would wager that if the Desert Fathers were alive today, they would be saying, “avoid all cooking oils: corn, soybean, olive, canola and all of the others.”

 

[Ghosty]

In the Byzantine tradition, when the fast calls for no olive oil, does this mean that you can’t eat olives whole as well?

I’m not very knowledgable on the fasting rules and their origins (I just do what I’m told, basically ), but I seem to remember that the historical reason that olive oil was prohibited was because animal skins were used to strain/filter it. Back in the day that was the only means of processing olive oil, so it automatically fell under the “no animal products” fasting prohibition, and this prohibition has just kind of stuck through to modern times.



Peace and God bless!

 

[bpbasilphx]

I’m not very knowledgable on the fasting rules and their origins (I just do what I’m told, basically ), but I seem to remember that the historical reason that olive oil was prohibited was because animal skins were used to strain/filter it. Back in the day that was the only means of processing olive oil, so it automatically fell under the “no animal products” fasting prohibition, and this prohibition has just kind of stuck through to modern times.

**I was told this by a Romanian Orthodox priest. He also mentioned that because of modern processing methods, many Romanian elders have given their spiritual children a blessing to use it during the fasts.

I will also say that for me, neither abstinence from olive oil is a deprivation, nor is its presence a consolation.

Plain olives are permitted, however; and so are NON-olive oils, I’ve been told.

Doesn’t make much sense, does it?

But I’m sure that cultural issues have entered into these observances. **

 

[mardukm]

No, there is no restriction on the use of olive oil in the Coptic Tradition.

The general concept regarding fasting in all the apostolic Churches (Latin, Eastern and Oriental) is the act of self-sacrifice. You willingly deprive yourself of something as a means to disattach yourself from the world. The specific conditions can be quite different. For instance, one would normally fast from things one has in abundance (olive oil, for instance). However, one may also fast from things that are usually NOT in abundance, especially if such a rare thing is considered a special treat or favor.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Volodymyr_988]

I’ve been told by a priest that historically the Byzantines allowed themselves invertebrates because they could still get their protein. If you watch any travel shows from Greece there is always the segment in which the host goes on a boat and divers jump off the edge, disappear, and come back up with sea urchins. They will jab a knife into the animal, pop it open, and suck out the goo.

I was also told, that since there were no readily available octopodes (the actual correct plural form) in Western Europe, dairy and fish were allowed for the people to eat so they could get their protein.

And when the Russian missionaries came to Alaska, they imposed no dietary restrictions because food was scarce enough already.

---

I think much of this is inculturation. The culture of the Mediterranean world, especially the European area was known for eating the invertebrates of the Sea and even used them in their art. But I’ve never seen a piece of early British art depicting any invertebrate.

 

[Aramis]

Actually, according to local papers, the village natives don’t eat land meat during Great Fast, but urban eat nothing with a spine.

Lots of crab, shrimp, and shellfish. Some walrus and seal.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Let’s remember that the purpose of fasting and abstinence is to humble the flesh.

To the extent that the flesh is humbled by illness, physical conditions (including pregnancy), or other deprivation, the fast and abstinence are mitigated, and one puts more emphasis on prayer and almsgiving.

 

[ComprAceite]

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[Regi]

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Hello,

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[ciero]

I’ve been told by a priest that historically the Byzantines allowed themselves invertebrates because they could still get their protein. If you watch any travel shows from Greece there is always the segment in which the host goes on a boat and divers jump off the edge, disappear, and come back up with sea urchins. They will jab a knife into the animal, pop it open, and suck out the goo.

I was also told, that since there were no readily available octopodes (the actual correct plural form) in Western Europe, dairy and fish were allowed for the people to eat so they could get their protein.

And when the Russian missionaries came to Alaska, they imposed no dietary restrictions because food was scarce enough already.

---

I think much of this is inculturation. The culture of the Mediterranean world, especially the European area was known for eating the invertebrates of the Sea and even used them in their art. But I’ve never seen a piece of early British art depicting any invertebrate.

Westerners being allowed fish and dairy during the fast is a very new idea. The full fast was kept ( no meat, dairy or eggs ) up until 1914 in the US and even later in parts of Europe.

 

[peresieh]

I heard from a Russian Orthodox nun that olive oil and wine were prohibited on some days because they were stored in animal skins. Anything with a backbone (fish, birds, land animals) was not permitted. It would be nice if the
Bishops would get together and standardize fasting practices in the Eastern Churches. Even the Churches that use the Byzantine Rite have different regulations. I also heard that if a Byzantine Catholic had a spouse who was Latin Catholic, the Latin Catholic fasting and abstinence rules could be followed.

 

[5Loaves]

I’ve always heard the same as what several others have mentioned, that the prohibition was due to the earlier practice (perhaps still in some places) of using animal skins for straining the olive oil, so the prohibition was due to possible contamination with animal products.

 

[josephdaniel29]

It would be nice if the Bishops would get together and standardize fasting practices in the Eastern Churches. Even the Churches that use the Byzantine Rite have different regulations.

Fasting isn’t a matter of corporate “one size fits all” regulations. It is a matter to be determined by one’s spiritual father.

Expecting everyone to follow blanket regulations can be an occasion to sin. For some the fasting may be too difficult, leading to resentment and despair. For some it may be too easy, leading to pride and vainglory.

The close relationship between an individual Christian and their spiritual father is something that is central to Eastern Christian spirituality. That relationship is diminished in the Latin Church because they make laws, rules and regulations to cover all aspects of Christian life. There is not nearly as much room for pastoral discretion. Eastern Catholic Churches should remain faithful to their tradition and resist the temptation to do the same.

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[adstrinity]

Fasting isn’t a matter of corporate “one size fits all” regulations. It is a matter to be determined by one’s spiritual father.

Says who?

 

[trophybearer]

Says who?

Says Christ’s Holy, Orthodox Catholic Church.

 

[adstrinity]

Says Christ’s Holy, Orthodox Catholic Church.

Great, but, says who? Did a council say this? Did a Church Father write this?

 

[Patchunky]

I heard from a Russian Orthodox nun that olive oil and wine were prohibited on some days because they were stored in animal skins. Anything with a backbone (fish, birds, land animals) was not permitted. It would be nice if the
Bishops would get together and standardize fasting practices in the Eastern Churches. Even the Churches that use the Byzantine Rite have different regulations. I also heard that if a Byzantine Catholic had a spouse who was Latin Catholic, the Latin Catholic fasting and abstinence rules could be followed.

I was reading an interview with one of the Ukrainian Catholic Bishop’s, whose name escapes me at present, but, he was asked about fasting. The Bishop said that the idea of fasting from olive oil and from fish did not apply to Ukrainian Catholics and Ruthenian Catholics because they did not have olives or olive oil and did not have a large variety of fish so it was impossible to fast from something that you didn’t have

makes sense to me…

so many eggs, so little time…

 

[trophybearer]

Great, but, says who? Did a council say this? Did a Church Father write this?

There are basic fasting guidelines that may be relaxed due to extenuating circumstances or for other reasons between the individual and their parish priest. There’s really not much to it that isn’t common sense.