Olive Oil Fasting Question

[adstrinity]

There are basic fasting guidelines that may be relaxed due to extenuating circumstances or for other reasons between the individual and their parish priest. There’s really not much to it that isn’t common sense.

But, that doesn’t really answer the question.

I don’t recall that this guideline is in the Bible, but, at the same time, we don’t go by Bible alone, so, if this is something a council said (which I will accept for the Orthodox), where was it said?

 

[josephdaniel29]

Great, but, says who? Did a council say this? Did a Church Father write this?

A council doesn’t have to say something for it to be true. That my friend is the entire problem with the Catholic mindset.

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[ciero]

Says who?

Unlike in the Latin church, in the East fasting regulations should always be worked out between oneself and your spiritual father. We do NOT have a one size fits all mindset.

 

[trophybearer]

But, that doesn’t really answer the question.

I don’t recall that this guideline is in the Bible, but, at the same time, we don’t go by Bible alone, so, if this is something a council said (which I will accept for the Orthodox), where was it said?

There are no real guidelines for the way in which Catholics and Orthodox fast in the bible. It’s only mentioned that we are expected to: “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do…” (Matthew 6:16). It’s mentioned in the Didache that we are to keep Wednesdays and Fridays as fasting days but honestly the specifics vary from time to time and place to place. For an Orthodox Christian the mark to aim for in fasting is the same rules the monastics follow. That is not always possible due to health, age, things like pregnancy, maturity, etc. Fasting isn’t an end in and of itself. For Catholics the penitential nature of fasting is stressed more strongly and the “rules” more concretely laid out. The biggest difference is that Orthodox Christians do it more often, fish isn’t allowed and the “rules” may differ a bit more on a case by case basis. Catholics who disregard the fast they are expected to keep will find themselves in a state of mortal sin if done knowingly and with full consent of the will. Orthodoxy doesn’t have it spelled out quite so plainly(or even a concept of “mortal” sins, although some sins are obviously more grevious than others). To knowingly disregard the fast with no good reason(there are some) as worked out between you and your confessor/spiritual father is definitely sinful. Catholics don’t expect pregnant women, the sick and persons in other special circumstances to fast exactly like everyone else is expected to, so I’m not totally sure where the confusion is coming from.

 

[5Loaves]

… For Catholics the penitential nature of fasting is stressed more strongly and the “rules” more concretely laid out. The biggest difference is that Orthodox Christians do it more often, fish isn’t allowed and the “rules” may differ a bit more on a case by case basis. Catholics who disregard the fast they are expected to keep will find themselves in a state of mortal sin if done knowingly and with full consent of the will. Orthodoxy doesn’t have it spelled out quite so plainly(or even a concept of “mortal” sins, although some sins are obviously more grevious than others). To knowingly disregard the fast with no good reason(there are some) as worked out between you and your confessor/spiritual father is definitely sinful. …

I think you’re referring to Catholics of the Latin Church. Eastern Catholics wouldn’t fit that description, but rather follow what you describe as Orthodox.

 

[adstrinity]

A council doesn’t have to say something for it to be true. That my friend is the entire problem with the Catholic mindset.

Yours in Christ
Joe

Unlike in the Latin church, in the East fasting regulations should always be worked out between oneself and your spiritual father. We do NOT have a one size fits all mindset.

There are no real guidelines for the way in which Catholics and Orthodox fast in the bible. It’s only mentioned that we are expected to: “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do…” (Matthew 6:16). It’s mentioned in the Didache that we are to keep Wednesdays and Fridays as fasting days but honestly the specifics vary from time to time and place to place. For an Orthodox Christian the mark to aim for in fasting is the same rules the monastics follow. That is not always possible due to health, age, things like pregnancy, maturity, etc. Fasting isn’t an end in and of itself. For Catholics the penitential nature of fasting is stressed more strongly and the “rules” more concretely laid out. The biggest difference is that Orthodox Christians do it more often, fish isn’t allowed and the “rules” may differ a bit more on a case by case basis. Catholics who disregard the fast they are expected to keep will find themselves in a state of mortal sin if done knowingly and with full consent of the will. Orthodoxy doesn’t have it spelled out quite so plainly(or even a concept of “mortal” sins, although some sins are obviously more grevious than others). To knowingly disregard the fast with no good reason(there are some) as worked out between you and your confessor/spiritual father is definitely sinful. Catholics don’t expect pregnant women, the sick and persons in other special circumstances to fast exactly like everyone else is expected to, so I’m not totally sure where the confusion is coming from.

Thank you all for your answers.

Okay, if it wasn’t in any council, where was it developed that this is how fasting should be, between one and one’s spiritual Father?

 

[ciero]

thank you all for your answers.

Okay, if it wasn’t in any council, where was it developed that this is how fasting should be, between one and one’s spiritual father?/qu

TRADITION

 

[Mickey]

where was it developed that this is how fasting should be

The Church Fathers have written extensively about fasting. Here is one:

Chapter 39. The Proper Amount of Food
For the daily meals, whether at noon or in midafternoon, it is enough, we believe, to provide all the tables with two kinds of cooked food because of individual weaknesses. In this way, the person who may not be able to eat one kind of food may partake of the other. Two kinds of cooked food, therefore, should suffice for all the brothers, and if fruit or fresh vegetables are available, a third dish may be added. A generous pound of bread is enough for a day whether for only one meal or for both dinner and supper. In the latter case the cellarer will set aside one third of this pound and give it to the brothers at supper.
Should it happen that the work is heavier than usual, the abbot may decide–and he will have the authority–to grant something additional, provided that it is appropriate, and that above all overindulgence is avoided, lest a monk experience indigestion. For nothing is so inconsistent with the life of any Christian as overindulgence. Our Lord says:* Take care that your hearts are not weighed down with overindulgence* (Luke 21:34).
Young boys should not receive the same amount as their elders, but less, since in all matters frugality is the rule. Let everyone, except the sick who are very weak, abstain entirely from eating the meat of four-footed animals.
St Benedict of Nursia

 

[Mickey]

I’ve always heard the same as what several others have mentioned, that the prohibition was due to the earlier practice (perhaps still in some places) of using animal skins for straining the olive oil, so the prohibition was due to possible contamination with animal products.

I have also heard that it is included because olive oil makes food taste better.

 

[Mickey]

does this mean that you can’t eat olives whole as well?

I was food shopping the other day and noticed some huge, plump, juicy, green deli olives. They made my mouth water (I love olives). I wondered the exact same thing as you. Perhaps I’ll ask my spiritual father. But since I love them so much–he may tell me to abstain.

 

[Patchunky]

adstrinity;6390321:

thank you all for your answers.

Okay, if it wasn’t in any council, where was it developed that this is how fasting should be, between one and one’s spiritual father?[/qu

TRADITION

Somebody keep an eye on the Fiddler

[/quote]

 

[5Loaves]

In the Byzantine tradition, when the fast calls for no olive oil, does this mean that you can’t eat olives whole as well?

I’ve made dishes for our Sunday agape meals that obviously include olives and Father has never said anything about it and he’s not one to bless any food that isn’t ok during the fast.

 

[Perogi]

The whole Questions is rather silly! Don’t you think?

If you cannot have olive oil then you cannot have olives!

For Instance Observant Orthodox Jews who **cannot eat pork also cannot use a Pork

based Gravy **or Spagetti Sauce!

 

[ciero]

The whole Questions is rather silly! Don’t you think?

If you cannot have olive oil then you cannot have olives!

For Instance Observant Orthodox Jews who **cannot eat pork also cannot use a Pork

based Gravy **or Spagetti Sauce!

Thanks be to God we are not Orthodox Jews. The canons of OUR fasting regulations DO permit olives even on days when olive OIL is prohibited. And NO the question was in no way silly!