Omission of Gloria and more

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So I visited my sister and went to the local parish for Sunday Mass on Saturday night. The music was wretched, everyone dressed casually, it was just not my cup of tea (though, Father had a good homily and I liked how he made an intentional period of silence after the homily). But, beyond the unappealing externals, there were a number of things that may or may not have been liturgical abuses (some somewhat subtle). So, are the following licit or no:
  1. omission of the Gloria
  2. refrain of the Responsorial Psalm a paraphrase/adaption
  3. for the Alleluia → alleluia, alleluia, alleluia for the glory and the honor are His
  4. possible altered verse for Alleluia
  5. repeat Alleluia without verse after Gospel
  6. music throughout consecration (I’m 99.99% sure this is a no-no)
  7. Mystery of Faith → Christ has died, alleluia, Christ is risen, alleluia, Christ will come again, alleluia
  8. Great Amen → Amen, alleluia, amen, alleluia, amen, amen, alleluia, alleluia
  9. Lamb of God → Lamb of God…Bread of Life… – you know the poetic verses
  10. lay extraordinary minsters of holy Communion get and return consecrated Hosts to and from the tabernacle
  11. lay extraordinary minsters of holy Communion pick up their own vessels from the altar
  12. vessels used were wooden with a metallic interior
…those are the ones that stood out.
 
I would assume the music was the best they could do. As one who dresses casually for Mass - I figure God knows and sees me as I am. I respect his worship place and don’t dress inappropriately but I don’t dress up.
  1. If it can’t be sung it is considered better to omit - but there was music so 🤷
  2. Again it is considered better to omit it altogether if it can’t be sung but many parishes just sing a different psalm. I’m considering learning how to chant and in turn teaching the cantors how to chant so we can stop this abuse at my parish.
      1. Never heard that one but there are variations - acceptable
  4. Only approved response is ‘Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ’
  5. Not acceptable
      1. Sounds like this parish really likes ‘alleluia’ but acceptable
  7. There are 3-4 alternates for this response, I assume this was one of them
  8. abuse - unfortunately a very common one
  9. Common - not sure if it is an abuse. If EMHC gave Host or Precious Blood to themselves, major unacceptable/very illicit.
  10. pushing it but acceptable
This is based on my knowledge. If in any case I am wrong, I reserve the right to be corrected.
 
Just a couple of comments:

The omission of the Gloria might have been a simple mistake.

There are, in the back of the Lectionary, seasonal and general Responsorial Psalms and Alleluia verses that may be used. Could this be the case?

If it’s actually silver or gold touching the consecrated species, does it matter what the outside of the vessels are?

I know one priest whose favorite chalice is hand made walnut, but the interior is gold.
 
1) omission of the Gloria

The Gloria is not be omitted on a Sunday, except during Advent and Lent. Might’ve been a mistake…

2) refrain of the Responsorial Psalm a paraphrase/adaption
3) for the Alleluia → alleluia, alleluia, alleluia for the glory and the honor are His
4) possible altered verse for Alleluia

Alterations of the propers is, sadly, rampant in the Church in America. 😦

5) repeat Alleluia without verse after Gospel

It’s not in the books, but it is, on occasion, part of the papal liturgies, so its licitness is possible.

4 [sic]) music throughout consecration (I’m 99.99% sure this is a no-no)

Not allowed.

6) Mystery of Faith → Christ has died, alleluia, Christ is risen, alleluia, Christ will come again, alleluia
7) Great Amen → Amen, alleluia, amen, alleluia, amen, amen, alleluia, alleluia

The word “alleluia” is not part of any of the “memorial acclamations” nor the “amen”.

8) Lamb of God → Lamb of God…Bread of Life… – you know the poetic verses

Shouldn’t be done.

9) lay extraordinary minsters of holy Communion get and return consecrated Hosts to and from the tabernacle
10) lay extraordinary minsters of holy Communion pick up their own vessels from the altar

An EMHC is only to receive Holy Communion for distribution from the priest, not take them on his or her own: “the priest … hands the sacred vessels to them for distribution of Holy Communion to the people.” (NDRHC 38)

11) vessels used were wooden with a metallic interior

That is permitted, I believe.
 
Regarding the Eucharistic Prayer, this comes from Redeptionis Sacramentum:
[53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”,132 except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below.
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In other words, no musical instruments should be played during the Eucharistic prayer, except for the Memorial Acclamation. Hopefully, “Christ has died…” will be a thing of the past.
 
japhy said:
8) Lamb of God → Lamb of God…Bread of Life… – you know the poetic verses

Shouldn’t be done.
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There are alternates - I’ve had my pastor show them to me in the rubrics. This is acceptable.
 
Mel_Stones said:
There are alternates - I’ve had my pastor show them to me in the rubrics. This is acceptable.
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In the rubrics of the Roman Missal? I have never seen such alternatives.

The 2002 Latin Missale Romanum has this as rubric 130:
130. Interim cantatur vel dicitur: Aliae melodiae in Graduali romano inveniuntur.

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: miserére nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: miserére nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: dona nobis pacem.

Quod etiam pluries repeti potest, si fractio panis protrahitur. Ultima tamen vice dicitur: dona nobis pacem.
The current (1985) English Sacramentary does not have alternative invocations here, nor does the new English translation. I have never seen an actual liturgical book (not a personal missal or missalette or hymnal) with alternative invocations.
 
Mel_Stones said:
There are alternates - I’ve had my pastor show them to me in the rubrics. This is acceptable.
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Your pastor is probably referencing Sing to the Lord which is not an official document and does not carry the recognitio from the Holy See. At this point, SttL is only suggestions, but, not required. In fact, the original version of SttL was supposed to have brought us into conformity with Liturgiam Authenticam.

Even Musicam Sacram, the authoritative document of the Holy See on sacred music, does not allow for additions to the parts of the Mass.

Whatever in SttL that runs contrary to the authoritative documents of the Holy See should not be done.
 
japhy said:
In the rubrics of the Roman Missal? I have never seen such alternatives.

The 2002 Latin Missale Romanum has this as rubric 130:
130. Interim cantatur vel dicitur: Aliae melodiae in Graduali romano inveniuntur.

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: miserére nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: miserére nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: dona nobis pacem.

Quod etiam pluries repeti potest, si fractio panis protrahitur. Ultima tamen vice dicitur: dona nobis pacem.
The current (1985) English Sacramentary does not have alternative invocations here, nor does the new English translation. I have never seen an actual liturgical book (not a personal missal or missalette or hymnal) with alternative invocations.
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I don’t honestly know Latin and have no way of translating it so I’m no longer sure what part of the Mass we are even talking about. Could you please use English and specify the part of the Mass with its proper name?
benedictgal said:
Your pastor is probably referencing Sing to the Lord which is not an official document and does not carry the recognitio from the Holy See. At this point, SttL is only suggestions, but, not required. In fact, the original version of SttL was supposed to have brought us into conformity with Liturgiam Authenticam.

Even Musicam Sacram, the authoritative document of the Holy See on sacred music, does not allow for additions to the parts of the Mass.

Whatever in SttL that runs contrary to the authoritative documents of the Holy See should not be done.
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My priest showed me (as in I read the words for my self) in the red book he reads from at every Mass. (I’m sure there is an official name for this book but beyond rubric I don’t know it.) So unless my priest has an illicit rubric for Mass, there is an alternate and it isn’t ‘Sing to the Lord’.
 
Mel_Stones said:
I don’t honestly know Latin and have no way of translating it so I’m no longer sure what part of the Mass we are even talking about. Could you please use English and specify the part of the Mass with its proper name?

My priest showed me (as in I read the words for my self) in the red book he reads from at every Mass. (I’m sure there is an official name for this book but beyond rubric I don’t know it.) So unless my priest has an illicit rubric for Mass, there is an alternate and it isn’t ‘Sing to the Lord’.
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I own a sacramentary (the red book that a priest uses for the Mass). The only options that are there are for the Memorial Acclamations, and there are currently, only four of them. The Memorial Acclamation comes after the celebrant chants: “let us proclaim the mystery of Faith.”

There are no options for the Lamb of God, which is what japhy was trying to show you. The Lamb of God reads as follows:

Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world. Have mercy on us
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world. Have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world. Grant us peace.

Mass of Creation has additional tropes to the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God), but, these are ilicit.
 
benedictgal said:
I own a sacramentary (the red book that a priest uses for the Mass). The only options that are there are for the Memorial Acclamations, and there are currently, only four of them. The Memorial Acclamation comes after the celebrant chants: “let us proclaim the mystery of Faith.”

There are no options for the Lamb of God, which is what japhy was trying to show you. The Lamb of God reads as follows:

Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world. Have mercy on us
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world. Have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world. Grant us peace.

Mass of Creation has additional tropes to the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God), but, these are ilicit.
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😊 I think you’re right - I think it was the Memorial Acclamation I was thinking of.
I thought I asked another time about the Agnus Dei, but I was mistaken.

Sorry, benetictgal and japhy.

That’s why a put a disclaimer on my original replies saying “this is to the best of my knowledge and I retain the right to be corrected” 😛 :doh2:.
 
Mel_Stones said:
I thought I asked another time about the Agnus Dei, but I was mistaken.

Sorry, benetictgal and japhy.
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Just a misunderstanding – apology accepted, and I apologize for not translating the Latin I pasted. 😊
 
japhy said:
Just a misunderstanding – apology accepted, and I apologize for not translating the Latin I pasted. 😊
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Apology accepted - I wish I had easy access to the Latin form and its translation :).
 
benedictgal said:
I own a sacramentary (the red book that a priest uses for the Mass). The only options that are there are for the Memorial Acclamations, and there are currently, only four of them. The Memorial Acclamation comes after the celebrant chants: “let us proclaim the mystery of Faith.”
Click to expand...
On that note – Every Christmas my parish responses to “let us proclaim the mystery of Faith” with “Oh come let us adore Him” (like the song). Anyone have any idea why?
 
Mel_Stones said:
Every Christmas my parish responses to “let us proclaim the mystery of Faith” with “Oh come let us adore Him” (like the song). Anyone have any idea why?
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Some guesses:
  • Some liturgist decided to get creative
  • Some music director decided to get creative
  • Someone doesn’t know they’re not allowed to change the texts of the Mass
  • Someone’s trying to make that part of the Mass “more relevant”.
 
Unfortunately, that Mass you attended sounds almost identical to the one I attended on Sunday here in France. I’ve just moved here and there are a couple of Churches nearby so I’ve been going to different ones over the past month.
At the mass I was at there was:
  • A one-line song for the penitential rite, with the “May the Lord have mercy on us…” said before it and no kyrie eleison.
  • A sung gloria which had vague resemblance to the actual text of the gloria.
  • A song to replace the Psalm
  • No second reading
  • The Gospel was cut in half (it was one of those weeks where there is an optional shorter Gospel, but the priest only said the half that could be omitted, and not the obligatory part)
  • the Alleluia sung before the Gospel was repeated after it to replace the “Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ”
  • In place of the creed was another song, which bore no resemblance to the words of the Creed.
  • Almost no one knelt throughout the Eucharistic Prayer (though this seems to be common in all churches here in France :()
  • The vessels were made of wood with no metal inside
  • The Mystery of Faith was a song with alleluia
  • Everyone HAD to hold hands during the Our Father
  • The Lamb of God was another elaborate happy-clappy song with the words “Lamb of God, who brings hope to the world, have mercy on us”
  • There wasn’t a moment of silence throughout the whole mass.
  • There were several priests concelebrating, but not a single one wore a chasuble. I was under the impression that at least one had to (not sure about that though)
  • Before mass started, there was a table at the back serving bread, toast and juice (and perhaps tea, I couldn’t see very well and wanted to get away from it quickly)
So, out of these, which were acceptable, and which were not? I think most of them are not allowed.
Is it ok to just abandon churches to their abuses, or should one still attend and perhaps try to encourage a more reverent attitude?
 
japhy said:
In the rubrics of the Roman Missal? I have never seen such alternatives.

The 2002 Latin Missale Romanum has this as rubric 130:
130. Interim cantatur vel dicitur: Aliae melodiae in Graduali romano inveniuntur.

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: miserére nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: miserére nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccáta mundi: dona nobis pacem.

Quod etiam pluries repeti potest, si fractio panis protrahitur. Ultima tamen vice dicitur: dona nobis pacem.
The current (1985) English Sacramentary does not have alternative invocations here, nor does the new English translation. I have never seen an actual liturgical book (not a personal missal or missalette or hymnal) with alternative invocations.
Click to expand...
That is quiet correct.
 
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