On Abortion...

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…what would happen after it would be abolished?

This is a serious question that I have been kicking around in my head for a few days. On CAF, I see…well, a lot of posts saying that abortion must stop. When I listen to CAL, they run three thousand adds a minute about it ( 😛 ). However…what would the aftereffects be on society as a whole? This is not an argument for keeping abortion, far from it. But there will be some things that wont run perfectly smoothly, and I want to know what people think they are, or if they ever considered it.

So, lets say that abortion in America hereby abolished on the date January 1st, 2011. What happens after that? What Laws would have to be enacted? Punishments? The economics of it? This is purely speculative…but that’s what I do on my free time anyways! I have a few ideas of what would happen, and problems that would be faced…but I want to see what is came up with first.

(Wow…it’s been almost a year since I’ve made a thread on these forums…)
 
First and foremost, Roe v. Wade must be overruled by another Supreme Court ruling in order to ensure that the law abolishing abortion isn’t successfully challenged in the courts.

Abortion rates would definitely go down, but there would certainly be underground clinics where some people go to get abortions

Punishments? For doctors who perform an abortion or attempt to: perhaps fines, revoking of medical license, imprisonment, etc.

For the girl, definitely not imprisonment. Most of the time, the girl is forced into getting an abortion and very few females don’t come out of the clinic extremely depressed. Perhaps a fine for the parents, a fine for the woman if she is an adult, or something along these lines.

The best way to stop abortions after making them illegal is to have punishments for the doctors. In that way, you won’t be punishing innocent girls who are forced into getting an abortion, and you’ll be discouraging those with the means to perform one. But like I said, they will still happen in secret. Just not as often as if it were legal. 1 less abortion is another life saved, and 1 innocent life is worth the efforts of the entire world.

In terms of education to discourage abortion (something that can and should be done now, even though it’s legal), adoption should be a strongly promoted in a variety of ways. In the real world, I think there should be incentives to offer a baby up for adoption and heavy fines and costs for people who opt for abortion. Since it’s legal, let’s make it extremely undesirable if not nearly impossible to go for.
 
I’ve thought about this too, at times. Especially since there are contraceptives on the market that cause micro-abortions, and the issue of in-vitro fertilization, surrogate pregnancy, and all kinds of things.

I too still want to see Roe v. Wade overturned, but I have wondered about the “how” of enforcing new laws especially since time and technology have brought us to such a different place in society than we were in 1973.:confused:

Also wonder if it would spark some riots or something – I know we can’t be afraid to do it because of that, but it’s still a sobering prospect.😦

We must pray.:signofcross:
 
I used to be a pro-abortion activist. After I saw a live ultrasound I could no longer deny the humanity of an unborn child and therefore could no longer support abortion. Religious belief had nothing to do with my change of heart (although I pray for forgiveness for participating in the sin of abortion) the science speaks for itself. I pray that Roe will someday be overturned, but even if it isn’t, I believe abortion could be virtually elimiminated if people had accurate information about the true nature of abortion. Like the Civil Rights Movement in 1960’s America, once the people saw marchers being beaten, hosed and attacked by dogs on the TV news, we “woke up” to a reality that many didn’t know existed. And many more who pretended it didn’t exist.

You don’t see too many live ultrasounds on TV. I didn’t know that a baby’s heart starts beating at 21 days gestation until I was expecting my own child. I don’t know if any orginaization has ever tried to do a PSA showing an ultrasound or even if something like that would be accepted by the networks. Educating the public about prenatal development would make a difference.

It seems to me that adoption has become the least socially-acceptable option for a woman or girl facing a crisis pregnancy. I remember watching a talk show where a woman who was “partying while pregnant” and had allready lost custody of one child stated that she would be placing her baby for adoption after it was born. She was booed! As a society, we need to do more to promote and encourage adoption. Many young women don’t know about their options as a birth mother, that they can choose their baby’s parents and even keep in touch if they want to.

Personally, I doubt that Roe will be overturned.

I believe that those of us on the pro-life side should try to change the hearts and minds of people, working to make abortion unthinkable. If I can change, there is hope for others.
 
…what would happen after it would be abolished?

This is a serious question that I have been kicking around in my head for a few days. On CAF, I see…well, a lot of posts saying that abortion must stop. When I listen to CAL, they run three thousand adds a minute about it ( 😛 ). However…what would the aftereffects be on society as a whole? This is not an argument for keeping abortion, far from it. But there will be some things that wont run perfectly smoothly, and I want to know what people think they are, or if they ever considered it.

So, lets say that abortion in America hereby abolished on the date January 1st, 2011. What happens after that? What Laws would have to be enacted? Punishments? The economics of it? This is purely speculative…but that’s what I do on my free time anyways! I have a few ideas of what would happen, and problems that would be faced…but I want to see what is came up with first.

(Wow…it’s been almost a year since I’ve made a thread on these forums…)
I think it has to be more global than just making abortion illegal, although that would be a welcome change. The current sexualization of society leads people to use birth control as a means to enjoy sex outside of marriage without consequences, or at least it is promoted as being without consequences. STDS and unplanned pregnancies are the consequences that we all know so well, but there are wide-ranging consequences that go unseen, such as emotional and psychological changes from having sex as a teenager. This is not speculative, there is research on the brain that shows the deep bonding mechanisms that happen when people are sexual. The two becoming one is meant for ONE relationship, with God in a covenant, and having many or even several sexual partners wounds us in ways most of us will probably never even know, having known nothing else. I want people to re-discover the 10 commandments and how God wanted us to enjoy sex - within a marriage, open to conception.

Planned Parenthood would most likely cease to exist, although they pretend to be for “family planning,” abortions are their main money-maker.

I would think that we could cut way back on artificial insemination, IVF and all of the technologies that childless couples resort to. We’d have babies ready for adoption, as we did before abortion was legalized.

Maybe if a girl knew she could NOT get a legal or safe abortion, more would actually choose NOT to have sex outside of marriage? Back when it was shameful to admit that you had gotten pregnant, girls and boys were more likely to try and stop before sex happened.

I don’t like to speculate too much. We have a very long way to go before anything changes, and some days, I think the road is too long…But I just keep praying for the day when we can say -0- babies died today from abortion!!!
 
…what would happen after it would be abolished?

This is a serious question that I have been kicking around in my head for a few days. On CAF, I see…well, a lot of posts saying that abortion must stop. When I listen to CAL, they run three thousand adds a minute about it ( 😛 ). However…what would the aftereffects be on society as a whole? This is not an argument for keeping abortion, far from it. But there will be some things that wont run perfectly smoothly, and I want to know what people think they are, or if they ever considered it.

So, lets say that abortion in America hereby abolished on the date January 1st, 2011. What happens after that? What Laws would have to be enacted? Punishments? The economics of it? This is purely speculative…but that’s what I do on my free time anyways! I have a few ideas of what would happen, and problems that would be faced…but I want to see what is came up with first.

(Wow…it’s been almost a year since I’ve made a thread on these forums…)
Same things that happened before 1973.
 
Same things that happened before 1973.
I’d have to disagree. Heard of Pandora’s Box? Once it’s opened, you can’t put it back…

Also…I totally forgot about Roe VS Wade. So lets pretend that’s gone too 😛
Abortion rates would definitely go down, but there would certainly be underground clinics where some people go to get abortions
That’s the first thing that I thought of. There’d be underground clinics, being very unsafe for both the mother, and (Obviously) the fetus, due too…well, it being black-market.

Wouldn’t people then just be able to leave the country to have an abortion to have one in another country? This is what Pro-choicers are saying there, that they’re having it done anyways. Would there be increased rates of emigration?
Punishments? For doctors who perform an abortion or attempt to: perhaps fines, revoking of medical license, imprisonment, etc.
Would you have a Grandfather clause in effect, where all people who had preformed an abortion before the law took effect can’t get charged? Also, overturning Roe Vs. Wade would be recognizing that it IS, in essence, murder. So would they be charged with murder, or would it be something else?

With the girls, that’s another problem that I had thought of. Having mothers in jail when they have their kids (This would be an attempted abortion, of course) would be not good for the child, and put a strain on the jail system.
In terms of education to discourage abortion (something that can and should be done now, even though it’s legal), adoption should be a strongly promoted in a variety of ways. In the real world, I think there should be incentives to offer a baby up for adoption and heavy fines and costs for people who opt for abortion. Since it’s legal, let’s make it extremely undesirable if not nearly impossible to go for.
That’s actually quite more reasonable then just outright banning it, personally. My stance (And this IS getting away from what I wanted the thread to be about), is that I wouldn’t want people I know to have an abortion, but IF they jump through the hoops, that don’t exist I don’t think, psychiatrists, other options, the works…and they still want to have it, then they should be allowed too.

Plus, with much less abortions, there would be more children up for adoption. That’d probably put a large strain on what I understand to be a already bending system.
I’ve thought about this too, at times. Especially since there are contraceptives on the market that cause micro-abortions, and the issue of in-vitro fertilization, surrogate pregnancy, and all kinds of things.
I too still want to see Roe v. Wade overturned, but I have wondered about the “how” of enforcing new laws especially since time and technology have brought us to such a different place in society than we were in 1973.
Also wonder if it would spark some riots or something – I know we can’t be afraid to do it because of that, but it’s still a sobering prospect.
Yes, it probably would cause a landslide effect, and would anger a lot of people. Plus, with new technology, you could just hope on a jet, fly somewhere, get an abortion, then come back, and not be in trouble.

Riots would happen too. In a country that’s so splintered right down the middle ideologically wise, like the US, it would probably be worse then the tea party movement. I do agree though-I had said that this is not a reason for keeping abortion in place.
I think it has to be more global than just making abortion illegal, although that would be a welcome change. The current sexualization of society leads people to use birth control as a means to enjoy sex outside of marriage without consequences, or at least it is promoted as being without consequences. STDS and unplanned pregnancies are the consequences that we all know so well, but there are wide-ranging consequences that go unseen, such as emotional and psychological changes from having sex as a teenager. This is not speculative, there is research on the brain that shows the deep bonding mechanisms that happen when people are sexual. The two becoming one is meant for ONE relationship, with God in a covenant, and having many or even several sexual partners wounds us in ways most of us will probably never even know, having known nothing else. I want people to re-discover the 10 commandments and how God wanted us to enjoy sex - within a marriage, open to conception.
Well, I can attest that there are SOME teenagers that aren’t like that. But that’d be a lot of things that would have to go…and not a lot of people would want them to go. They, and I, would see it as a massive step back in society, and such.
I don’t like to speculate too much. We have a very long way to go before anything changes, and some days, I think the road is too long…But I just keep praying for the day when we can say -0- babies died today from abortion!!!
I read a book that was like that, kind of. It talked of a society where nobody died, and was run by a giant supercomputer that was basically the ultimate big brother. I doubt there will ever be a day with 0 abortions.
Maybe if a girl knew she could NOT get a legal or safe abortion, more would actually choose NOT to have sex outside of marriage? Back when it was shameful to admit that you had gotten pregnant, girls and boys were more likely to try and stop before sex happened.
Or, it could go the other way, with there being a LARGE increase of birth control, sterilization, and such, to prevent that.

I’m sorry if I sound rude or anything…I was just trying to provide counterpoints to everyone’s arguments :o
 
Would you have a Grandfather clause in effect, where all people who had preformed an abortion before the law took effect can’t get charged? Also, overturning Roe Vs. Wade would be recognizing that it IS, in essence, murder. So would they be charged with murder, or would it be something else?
umm, you wouldn’t need a grandfather clause, because in the US you can’t make a criminal offense and penalty retroactive, it is illegal/unconstitutional.
 
umm, you wouldn’t need a grandfather clause, because in the US you can’t make a criminal offense and penalty retroactive, it is illegal/unconstitutional.
I don’t live in the US…I’m from the great barren northern country of it. So…I’m not that up to constitutional stuff…
 
I don’t live in the US…I’m from the great barren northern country of it. So…I’m not that up to constitutional stuff…
Interesting, in your country can the state make a something criminal and then retroactively apply it? I thought even those in the great barren country of the north considered that categorically unfair/unjust.
 
Interesting, in your country can the state make a something criminal and then retroactively apply it? I thought even those in the great barren country of the north considered that categorically unfair/unjust.
It might, but I doubt it. I’m not a law expert, or anything. I was just wondering if you silly people down there did 😉
 
…what would happen after it would be abolished?

This is a serious question that I have been kicking around in my head for a few days. On CAF, I see…well, a lot of posts saying that abortion must stop. When I listen to CAL, they run three thousand adds a minute about it ( 😛 ). However…what would the aftereffects be on society as a whole? This is not an argument for keeping abortion, far from it. But there will be some things that wont run perfectly smoothly, and I want to know what people think they are, or if they ever considered it.

So, lets say that abortion in America hereby abolished on the date January 1st, 2011. What happens after that? What Laws would have to be enacted? Punishments? The economics of it? This is purely speculative…but that’s what I do on my free time anyways! I have a few ideas of what would happen, and problems that would be faced…but I want to see what is came up with first.

(Wow…it’s been almost a year since I’ve made a thread on these forums…)
We would probably end up seeing more cases like THIS
 
It’ll never go away, sadly. If you could outlaw it with a stroke of the pen, you’d still have an underground network of abortion providers. It’ll be an immediate black market-so of like the drug market in America.

Punishments? The doctors who do it should get punished, not so sure about the women who get them.

No, I’m not saying we shouldn’t ban it or that I wouldn’t rejoice if it was banned. I would do cartwheels. However, we shouldn’t end the fight there-we should still fight on to try and show women that there are other options.
 
I’d be willing to bet plenty of NON doctors would attempt them. I think plenty of wealthy women would go in for an “exam” and come out babyless.

It might cut down on “unwanted” PGs. You know, for those that use Abortions as a form of ABC.

It would stop the abortions had by women who think it’s important to go to a good doctor.

I think while we fight the fight, we need to keep educating men and women on just how awful these are.

You can find an abortion recorded with the use of ultrasound on youtube. It’s gross, disturbing and very sad! I think if people saw this, MANY just wouldn’t do it. They can observe the reaction of the baby to the intruments. Even the Doctor that performed the abortion that was recorded, AFTER watching it… refused to another ever again. And he had performed 1000’s. You hear of nurses that participated in abortions but once they’d actually watched them… they opted out.

It’s the willful ignorance of what is actually being done that keeps many abortions happening.

One of the reasons that men and women regret the abortions they were involved with years ago, is because they are finally witnessing life on a screen for the FIRST TIME during a desired pregnancy.

Many people would change their mind if they really knew what was happening… And yeah, there will still be those that don’t care.
 
Well I think it should be outlawed unless the mother would die or if the baby was terminal (say an etopic, I know some don’t agree but I don’t agree with having to have the tube removed but am more for the use of medication in that case to end the pregnancy. I get the logic that the church goes by but I don’t think decreasing her fertility (especially if it’s a second tubal making her infertile if the had the surgery) when the pregnancy is terminal is the answer.

But if it was illegal to have an abortion except for a deadly risk for mother (I’m not even going to talk about in instances of rape here, but just purely at a terminal risk), then I suspect people would not be as sexually active as they are and hopefully marriage would be more important to people and waiting to have sex until marriage would be more the norm because of the increased risk of becoming a single mother since the mother would have to have the baby and there is no gurantee the father would stick around.

as for punishment, I guess it should be something to the effect of a manslaughter charge. or assault at the least. If it’s illegal, there should be some punishment for it.
 
…Plus, with much less abortions, there would be more children up for adoption. That’d probably put a large strain on what I understand to be a already bending system…
On that one projection, I might take issue as seeing it slightly overly cynical. I realize you’ve listed yourself as agnostic but some agnostics describe their beliefs to be slightly different from others. Personally, I would say, from my beliefs re abortion: How many good people have we denied ouselves of…? How many Dr. Louis Pasteurs ; how many Dr. Albert Schweitzers; how many Dr. Martin Luther Kings; how many Mother Theresas ? How many did God wish to send us to better our society with ?

From the perspective of logic , when a population is thriving in an industrialized country, usually the economy thrives right along with it . With many children, there is an increase in demand. When there is an increase in demand, it has to be met with an increase in supply. When there is an increase in supply, industry thrives. When industry thrives, the economy prospers.
 
I would think that the only thing that would need to be done is to legally define a human life as beginning at the moment of fertilization. Then there would be no need for stand-alone abortion rules, as the normal rules for homicide would have to be applied.

Think that’s crazy? You might want to ask Scott Peterson about that one (his second count of murder was for his own child).
 
Before abortion was legal, 90% of abortions were done at a doctor’s office. The idea that abortions would be unsafe if made illegal is false; statistics say otherwise. Roe v. Wade did not make abortions “safer”… it simply opened the door to making killing your child be seen as an acceptable “choice.” And of course the number of abortions, depressed women who regretted the abortions, cases of sexual abuse of teen girls, and people with STDs has risen dramatically since 1973.

In states that have laws where girls must notify their parents before abortion (and if they couldn’t tell their parents, police would be notified since this was a possible abuse case), many people predicted girls would be getting unsafe abortions, parents would beat them up, etc. But it did the opposite: the number of abortions has fallen in those areas, and kids are choosing not to be sexually active until they are older and possibly married. The idea was brought forward after girls got several abortions without her parents or the police knowing. Planned Parenthood, in all their secrecy, failed to report the sexual abuse, even to the authorities, when it was obviously the girl was sleeping with a much-older man (30-something) who kept forcing her to get abortions as a form of birth control.

There are thousands of people on waiting lists to adopt. There used to be a relatively equal number of adoptive parents to girls/women who got pregnant out-of-wedlock, so the system balanced itself out. Now, it is socially acceptable to abort your child, or keep your child and raise him/her in poverty (living off the system), so married couples don’t have kids to adopt, and many rich couples are turning to IVF.

I think adoption should be made to be seen as an acceptable choice, and greatly encouraged for unwed mothers, especially those under 21/25. I liked that the movie Juno did that. Yes, there will be sadness from birthmothers due to bonding, but there are classes that women take when they become surrogate mothers so they don’t bond with the child. Unwed mothers could take these same classes, which help a lot based on people I know who have taken them.

Another change that needs to be made is that the decision to place your baby for adoption needs to be FINAL immediately. Many times, the girl/woman places her kid for adoption and she has six months to a year to change her mind. This system is not good for the child, who needs stability, and discourages people from adopting since they are heartbroken when the child is taken away from them. Infertility is already emotionally draining experience, and having your baby taken from you just makes it that much worse. No wonder so many people are turning to IVF!
 
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