On excommunication and abortion polititcs

[vern_humphrey]

We on the forums should learn to make similar distinctions. Judge ideas and general behavior, but refrain from specific application of those judgements towards PEOPLE. They’ll get the message loud and clear without making it a personal attack.

How do we do that?

Do we say, “OId Joe is a dope-dealer, a wife-beater and a child-molestor, but we have to refrain from specific application of those judgements towards PEOPLE?”

Do we have to vote for “pro-choice” politicians to show we’re refraining from specific application of those judgements towards PEOPLE?

On the other hand, there are some very decent people in every Catholic church in the land who cannot take communion – because they’re divorced and remarried, or are Protestants married to Catholics. So we refrain from specific application of those judgements towards PEOPLE who are rich and powerful, but come down on ordinary people like a ton of bricks.

What kind of message does that send?

 

[GreenJeans]

How about he do what is best for Catholics and ignore the artifical label of conservative and liberal. A pro-abortion Catholic politican should not be receiving communion. period. And for them to do so mocks their faith and does great harm to the Church.

Sure, that’s an option. And it would have political effects. I suspect the pope and his advisors have discussed it quite a bit.

 

[vern_humphrey]

No way I could ever vote for. If you vote for him you end up having the blood of the innocents on your hands. zn addtion you send the message to the GOP they can turn their back on the unborn.

You are exactly right. And not a penny will I give the National party until I see who the nominee is.

 

[GreenJeans]

I don’t know from what secular source you have formed your ideas but there aren’t such things as “conservatives Catholics” liberal Catholics" Just those who are faithful to the Church and those who are not. It is not a political issue within the Church it is a matter of faith, God, and murder. I can see how a cynical person in this world would see the Pope as one who is put between a rock and a hard place by so called western and even US politics however a true Catholic knows that the Pope deffinitally does not play politics with this issue as it is one of probably the most spritual significance ever.

The designations of conservative and liberal apply to self-identified Catholics. There are about 65 million self-identified Catholics in the US. I don’t know how many are faithful and how many are not, nor do I know how many are true Catholics.

So, that’s what I refer to when I speak about the potential political effects. Those effects exist even if the pope is not playing politics. Everyone else is.

 

[Holly3278]

I strongly agree with the Pope on this one. I also believe that those who vote for abortion should instantly be excommunicated.

 

[Potato1]

The designations of conservative and liberal apply to self-identified Catholics. There are about 65 million self-identified Catholics in the US. I don’t know how many are faithful and how many are not, nor do I know how many are true Catholics.

So, that’s what I refer to when I speak about the potential political effects. Those effects exist even if the pope is not playing politics. Everyone else is.

Not everyone…

 

[beckers]

I’m 100% pro-choice, it’s just that I believe the timing of that choice should be earlier, i.e., BEFORE the baby is conceived.

I’ve said this for years. I don’t understand how people think it’s the one decision that they get to make over. When you decide to have sex you are telling God that you accept all responsibility for your actions. That may or may not be a child but you knew going in that God could possible grant you the ability to bore and raise a little soul for him. If your not ready then don’t have sex.

 

[beckers]

First, let me say that I’m not interested in comments about the “liberal media”. :tsktsk:

I found this article interesting, mostly because of the ignorance of Catholicism displayed by the headline. Isn’t it odd how the average person seems to think that a Pope, angry that his authority has been challenged, vindictively pronounces a sentence of excommunication, rather than that sentence being brought on by the action of the sinner?

It’s like they think we’re still in the Dark Ages – ruled by a tyrant with no understanding of what the world is really like.

Curiouser and curiouser…

Peace,
Dante

This is something that i don’t understand. The pope nor the bishops are excommunicating the people. They have done that themselves. It is their actions that have caused the automatic excommunication. They have choosen to go against the teaching of the church so the have opted to reject the community. If they want to be receieved back in the commuinity it is very simple. Go to confession and your are receieved back into full communion . Notice both leaving and coming back in are actions of the sinner not the church. By her very nation she can not and will not change it must be us the sinners who change!

 

[Iowa_Mike]

The pope DOES have the power to formally excommunicate. He didn’t use that power here. He simply noted the principle that formal promotion of abortion incurs and automatic excommunication.

Its a wonderful distinction that we must ALL learn to make. There is no need to single out individuals when we can proclaim principled truth instead. The pope doesn’t formally excommunicate anybody without a thorough investigation and opportunity for the ascused to respond and defend himself. But he DOES hold nothing back when proclaiming universal principles.

We on the forums should learn to make similar distinctions. Judge ideas and general behavior, but refrain from specific application of those judgements towards PEOPLE. They’ll get the message loud and clear without making it a personal attack.

With all due respect more politcal correctness is not the answer. I’m tired of all Catholic politicians who claim to be practicing Catholics but support abortion. They have a moral obligation to speak out against abortion as Catholics not hide behind some clever political convention.

All I can say is it is about time!!!

Iowa Mike