On Expensive Diocesan Buildings and Episcopal Housing

[CutlerB]

It’s probably an obscure heading, but I couldn’t think of a better one.

Recently, I posted a news item here on CAF about the “controversial” German Bishop of Limburg, Dr Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst. He’s in the media and public eye for all sorts of reasons, one of which is the diocesan building project for his housing and administration. About 4500 Catholics from his diocese “rebelled” against him in writing a letter of complaint that is quite strongly worded.

Here are some images of the project in question to look at:

spiegel.de/fotostrecke/bischof-tebartz-van-elst-fuehrung-in-limburg-fotostrecke-101105.html

bistumlimburg.de/meldungen/meldung-detail/meldung/einblicke-ins-dioezesane-zentrum-st-nikolaus.html

Yesterday, the Bishop invited all those interested in the project to come and visit the place with a guided tour. I gather about 200 people turned up, which is quite a number.

Among the things criticised by the media and the above-mentioned Catholics are the following:

1. 
   *]The costs are rising from initially €5 Million (ca. $6.6 Million) to probably €10 Million and maybe even €20 Million while parishes in the diocese are struggling financially, although the diocese is healthy in that regard.
   
   *]The “Diocesan Centre of Saint Nicholas” is criticised for being “lavish” and “representative of a Prince of the Church of the Middle Ages”.
   
   *]The Bishop wouldn’t show them his apartment.
   
   *]The overall building and its materials such as limestone for floor tiles, cherry wood for the doors and crown glass for some windows.
   
   I’d be interested to hear what other users have to say about a project like this. Specifically:
   
   Do you think it’s alright for a Bishop’s residence and administrative headquarters to be expensive?
   
   Do you know of any projects in your area that have attracted similar attention?

 

[ajecphotos]

I think it is appalling that this amount of money is being spent.

It’s like our Diocese is in debt and still money is spent terribly! Bishop is one who loves a really good life, 2 cars, own private reg, numerous holidays etc etc. Our parish just spent 10s of thousands on re gilding work when it wasn’t needed! Plus other items bought at such a high cost that didn’t warrant it.

Must be the same everywhere I guess?

This is one side of the church that is appalling. I hope that Pope Francis will tackle some of these issues.

 

[CutlerB]

I think it is appalling that this amount of money is being spent.

It’s like our Diocese is in debt and still money is spent terribly!

Well, the Diocese of Limburg is all but in debt.

Bishop is one who loves a really good life, 2 cars, own private reg, numerous holidays etc etc.

Hm. I mean, who doesn’t love a good life? But as a Bishop he should indeed live differently. As for two cars… there may be good reasons for that. He may have to travel long distances a lot, which – in my opinion – justifies a better car than one for local trips. Or perhaps the diocese owned them before he became Bishop? Concerning private registration, well… I don’t know how I feel about that.

Our parish just spent 10s of thousands on re gilding work when it wasn’t needed! Plus other items bought at such a high cost that didn’t warrant it.

That does sound awkward. So much so, in fact, that I find it very hard to believe there wasn’t some argument to be made for it. I can’t imagine people chucking tens of thousands of pounds out of the window for nothing, really I can’t.

Must be the same everywhere I guess?

This is one side of the church that is appalling. I hope that Pope Francis will tackle some of these issues.

I hope he tackles unjustified expenditure and wasteful finances, yes.

 

[Starrsmother]

All I can say is that I agree that it’s a ridiculous amount of money to waste. When I hear of these abuses, I wonder what Jesus would say if he were on earth today and found His priests living like royalty. If you remember, Jesus sent the apostles out to spread the gospel without even allowing them to take an extra cloak or food with them. The behavior of this bishop is scandalous–especially to those who are struggling to simply remain in their modest homes and make ends meet. Priests and bishops should be cared for by the church, but should remember the poverty of the carpenter Whose Word they are supposed to preach. I too admire Pope Francis’ humility and modesty and hope that he will curb these abuses. If it were my parish, I would probably quit making donations during the collection if my hard earned money were being used for such foolishness!

 

[CutlerB]

I might add that the “Diocesan Centre of Saint Nicholas” doesn’t merely contain the Bishop’s apartment (which is quite modest in size) but also the Diocese’s administration, rooms for conferences and meetings, a chapel, a sacristy, the storage for many relics, guest bedrooms and many other facilities needed for the Diocese to operate.

The complex was designed to be a “centre for encounter” open to the public and specifically intended for the Diocese’s faithful to come and meet.

 

[Netty1]

That is a lot of money. What is the need for it? Are there any portions of it which can be hired out to recoup expenses? Though at those expenses it would take forever to make a dent in the bill!

For example, the Narthex at Norwich RC Cathedral cost £2.7 million in 2007 which is a hefty price tag (3.2m euros / $4.2m). But, it is/was a community and educational project, and it is hired out for all sorts of events to recoup some costs and fund the running expenses. And as you can see, it is a nice building, but it is not “lavish”.

news.bbc.co.uk/local/norfolk/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8571000/8571158.stm

sjbcathedral.org.uk/Narthex/Hire

If an expensive building project is for the community and the congregation then yes, sometimes it is worth expanding into larger and better appointed buildings. But if this is just for Bishop’s administration?..then no, this is not good.

I too wonder what our Holy Father will think when he gets to hear about it…a Pope who lives in a one-bedroom apartment in a hotel. Cannot see how he will approve!

 

[CutlerB]

That is a lot of money. What is the need for it? Are there any portions of it which can be hired out to recoup expenses? Though at those expenses it would take forever to make a dent in the bill!

For example, the Narthex at Norwich RC Cathedral cost £2.7 million in 2007 which is a hefty price tag (3.2m euros / $4.2m). But, it is/was a community and educational project, and it is hired out for all sorts of events to recoup some costs and fund the running expenses. And as you can see, it is a nice building, but it is not “lavish”.

news.bbc.co.uk/local/norfolk/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8571000/8571158.stm

sjbcathedral.org.uk/Narthex/Hire

If an expensive building project is for the community and the congregation then yes, sometimes it is worth expanding into larger and better appointed buildings. But if this is just for Bishop’s administration?..then no, this is not good.

I too wonder what our Holy Father will think when he gets to hear about it…a Pope who lives in a one-bedroom apartment in a hotel. Cannot see how he will approve!

As I said, it’s more than just the administration. It is a historic site that had to be renovated extensively anyway. The extra costs are due to many complications with the foundations (the ground is tricky).

Concerning the Pope: The Bishop was in Rome recently and says he received “utmost support” in the matter.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Building to last is quite expensive nowadays. While some may lament limestone tiles, for example, I see a flooring system designed to last 500 years. Let us also remember that such projects provide jobs for a great many people, from material suppliers to tradesmen, and at a time when the economy is still floundering. It is sometimes good for money to be spent rather than horded.

 

[1ke]

People will always find something to complain about. Those complaining about 5-10 M euro to renovate, build, expand clearly have NO understanding of costs of construction.

 

[Netty1]

As I said, it’s more than just the administration. It is a historic site that had to be renovated extensively anyway. The extra costs are due to many complications with the foundations (the ground is tricky).

Concerning the Pope: The Bishop was in Rome recently and says he received “utmost support” in the matter.

In which case - what is the problem?

 

[VivienneJ]

Many years ago (when I was still Anglican) part of my job required me taking the minutes of the parish council meetings. We were very fortunate to have an astute accountant as our treasurer; he is known for wise financial decisions and careful spending. At a meeting they were discussing some expensive repairs the church hall needed and trying to explore other less costly and less ‘complete’ solutions to the problem, suggesting that there were other uses for the money (e.g. to help fund the ‘school’ for disadvantaged children that met in the afternoons in that same hall). After allowing some discussion, this treasurer spoke in defence of doing the more expensive and longer lasting repair saying that the buildings are representative of our stewardship of God’s gifts to us (temporal gifts for sure) and it is our responsibility to make sure we maintain the buildings in a way that honours God. There were no more arguments about finding a cheaper way to do the essential repairs.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I an an American. I was born and mostly raised in Georgia, one of the earliest American Colonies. My hometown of Savannah is the original site of the Georgetown colony, which had only three prohibited practices (alcohol, slavery, and Catholicism).

The city of Savannah features a broad historic district, with many original structures designed by the architect John Jay. The city was spared destruction by Union troops as a “birthday gift” to General Lee. Many buildings in Savannah are on the National Register of Historic Places. The people of Savannah consider their city to be a historic place, and many tourists visit the city to experience this history.

But I became a friend of an English subject who scoffed at this notion. To his mind, nothing was “historic” that was not at least a thousand years old. The houses that John Jay built in colonial Georgia would be considered “new construction” in England.

I have never visited England, but I have since visited Germany and France, and I understand what my friend meant. And what he still means. We have “McHouses” in America - homes built with shoddy materials and craftsmanship. There are no McHouses in Germany or France. New homes are built to last at least 200 years with minimal maintenance.

In Europe, I visited cathedrals that were built a thousand years ago, by people who began construction that they could never hope to see fulfilled, because ALL of these churches took at least two or three centuries to construct. A dozen generations of builders and craftsmen spent their entire lives building these magnificent churches.

Hundreds of years later, they still serve the Catholic Faithful on a daily basis, and will continue to do so for hundreds of years to come. America is a young country, and we tend to have short-term outlooks. But there is wisdom and vision in building things that will last.