On Luther, Hitler and Religious Confusion

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Hello dear fellow believers,

I’ve just written a post about the links between Marin Luther and Hitler, and I use the opportunity to go into a theological problem at the end.

lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/on-luther-hitler-and-religious-confusion/

For quite a few people, this is going to be controversial, and I’m genuinely curious to read your reactions.

As I said, I don’t pretend to posses the truth and my thoughts are constantly evolving.

Lovely greetings from Germany.
Liebe Grüsse aus Deutschland.

Lothars Sohn - Lothar’s son
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com
 
Lotharson said:
Hello dear fellow believers,

I’ve just written a post about the links between Marin Luther and Hitler, and I use the opportunity to go into a theological problem at the end.

lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/on-luther-hitler-and-religious-confusion/

For quite a few people, this is going to be controversial, and I’m genuinely curious to read your reactions.

As I said, I don’t pretend to posses the truth and my thoughts are constantly evolving.

Lovely greetings from Germany.
Liebe Grüsse aus Deutschland.

Lothars Sohn - Lothar’s son
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com
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Interesting blog. I think it important to point out that
  1. Luther was, in his later years, antijudaism. This is not surprising considering the era and whAt was typical in the Church.
  2. It is also not antisemitism. Antisemitism is a racial bigotry. Luther, and others such as Eck, one of Luther’s staunch Catholic opponents, were quite happy to welcome Jews into the faith. Their bigotry was against the Jewish faith.
    Hitler’s use of this to twist into hatred of the Jews based on their race, has little to do with Luther.
Jon
 
Great post/article! I read the whole thing. 👍 🙂
On a side note, “4 out of 5 dentists recommend this WordPress.com site” Hehe that made me laugh 😃
 
On the Jews and their Lies did not help matters…

On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jüden und iren Lügen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lügen) is a 65,000-word antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther.

In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a “base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth.”[1] Luther wrote that they are “full of the devil’s feces … which they wallow in like swine,”[2] and the synagogue is an “incorrigible whore and an evil slut”.[3]
 
On the Jews and Their Lies is disgusting. Hatred induced more hatred…
I’m glad that was addressed in the writing.

Wikipedia.
On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jüden und iren Lügen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lügen) is a 65,000-word antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther.

In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a “base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth.”[1] Luther wrote that they are “full of the devil’s feces … which they wallow in like swine,”[2] and the synagogue is an “incorrigible whore and an evil slut”.[3]
 
Luthers anti-semetic feelings emerged soon after the first mass printing and distribution of the Talmud in approx 100 volumes. Luthers venom was inspired by the distinctly anti-christian sentiment voiced in those [anti-christian] Talmuds pages. Luther was also frustrated by the protection that many Jews lived under most jews in western and northern europe wwre protected by various Royal decrees ]. Most Royal houses were financially administrated by Jews. Hitler saw the Jews through Luthers eyes and saw a conspircy…the rest is history…a terrible history!
 
Thanks for your answers!

CrispSnowflake: I can reassure you, I’m not a dentist but a chemist, so that I don’t torture anyone 🙂

As I pointed out, the problem is that there are great men of God who did have profound insights. but taught blasphemous doctrines at the same time.

How are we supposed to deal with that as believers?

Lovely greetings from Germany.
Liebe Grüsse aus Deutschland.

Lothars Sohn - Lothar’s son
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com
 
Let’s not forget that Hitler was raised Catholic, by a devoutly Catholic mother. I don’t know why a man who lived centuries before him would have more blame for Hitler’s warped views that the people who actually raised him.
 
Let’s not forget that Luther was a man of his times and that the reformation was as much or even more about politics as it was about the Church, God and Faith. The reformation was the beginning and really the first word on Nationalism and the leader of Germany’s National Socialists had the last word. And just as the emerging Nation States would not tolerate people such as the Anabaptists setting up their own separate communities, they also would not tolerate a people setting themselves apart with in the new system.
I often think that not enough emphasis is placed on those in power who protected and even manipulated Luther as a mouth piece for the new Nationalism.
 
Matt_Guitar_Man said:
Let’s not forget that Luther was a man of his times and that the reformation was as much or even more about politics as it was about the Church, God and Faith. The reformation was the beginning and really the first word on Nationalism and the leader of Germany’s National Socialists had the last word. And just as the emerging Nation States would not tolerate people such as the Anabaptists setting up their own separate communities, they also would not tolerate a people setting themselves apart with in the new system.
I often think that not enough emphasis is placed on those in power who protected and even manipulated Luther as a mouth piece for the new Nationalism.
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Agreed. If he had been born a century earlier he would not have been taken so seriously. But he was a pawn in the hands of the princes who wanted more power and wealth for themselves.
They used Luther as a rally point to remove the influence of Rome.
 
fred_conty said:
Agreed. If he had been born a century earlier he would not have been taken so seriously. But he was a pawn in the hands of the princes who wanted more power and wealth for themselves.
They used Luther as a rally point to remove the influence of Rome.
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Its Great to find some one who agrees With me.
Yes that is what has occurred to me. They needed someone to remove the Church’s influence and control. One of the big indicators of this which is often over looked was the peasants revolt immediately afterwards. This was resolved by making it law that all citizens must have the religion of the ruling sovereign i.e the state. And so it is in many cases still today e.g the church of England.
 
I curretly go to the LCMS church, so I have also had an interrest about this in the past.
Look for two books, one called “On the Jews and Thier Lies” by Luther, the other is a small book entitled “On the Thieving, Murderous Hordes of Peasants”. Also if you can fins an uncensored version of “Table Talk” it will also be relevant to this discussion.
 
Hello, as I explain on my blog, Luther was a man of his time, but the Anabaptists living during roughly the same time period were entirely non-violent.

Lovely greetings from Germany.
Liebe Grüsse aus Deutschland.

Lothars Sohn - Lothar’s son
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com
 
fred_conty said:
Agreed. If he had been born a century earlier he would not have been taken so seriously. But he was a pawn in the hands of the princes who wanted more power and wealth for themselves.
They used Luther as a rally point to remove the influence of Rome.
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If he had been born a century earlier, he might have ended up like Jan Huss. 😉

Otherwise, I agree we sometimes neglect to discuss the politics of the times, as well as the prejudices of the time.
There is a thread over on the Non-Catholics forum about Jack Chick’s charge that Hitler and the Holocaust were the fault of Catholics. Nonsense. Hitler was the cause of Hitler, not the Catholic Church, and not Luther.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
If he had been born a century earlier, he might have ended up like Jan Huss. 😉

Otherwise, I agree we sometimes neglect to discuss the politics of the times, as well as the prejudices of the time.
There is a thread over on the Non-Catholics forum about Jack Chick’s charge that Hitler and the Holocaust were the fault of Catholics. Nonsense. Hitler was the cause of Hitler, not the Catholic Church, and not Luther.

Jon
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Where someone like Hitler is concerned, there is no confusion. He excommunicated himself by his actions and no one I can think of would ever believe that Hiter was a faithful Catholic adhering to the teachings of the Church. Formal excommunication is not neccessary unless there is some heretical idea of belief that is in question. Hitler never claimed to be doing the work of the Catholic Church, he never claimed to be a good Catholic and told by the Virgn Mary to kill all the Jews…or something like that. He was raised Catholic but he never really was Catholic, nor did he try to draw his Catholic upbringing into any of his actions.
Yahoo answers;]
This was my understanding as well. Mary.
 
Oh yes Mary, militant atheists like to think that Hitler was a good Christian, but his deeds were so extreme this allows us to affirm his unbelief.

Lovely greetings from Germany.
Liebe Grüsse aus Deutschland.

Lothars Sohn - Lothar’s son
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com
 
Lotharson said:
Oh yes Mary, militant atheists like to think that Hitler was a good Christian, but his deeds were so extreme this allows us to affirm his unbelief.

Lovely greetings from Germany.
Liebe Grüsse aus Deutschland.

Lothars Sohn - Lothar’s son
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com
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Do they actually think that? Or is it more a rhetorical tool they use to besmirch Chritianity in general, and Catholicism specifically? :hmmm:

Jon
 
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