On non human death before the fall

[roseproject]

So, after traversing many threads on the general subject of possible death before the fall (as in, the physical death of things in the natural world), there seems to be split thought as to whether physical death, even to humans, was existent prior to the fall.

Some make the argument that there simply was no death or decay in the natural universe AT ALL prior to the fall. I can’t see how this could be possible unless the order of said universe was unrecognizabley different. So I tend not to agree with this theory of Genesis.

This article by Jimmy Akin makes a strong argument that death and decay did indeed exist before the fall in the natural world (humans of course being spared from this fate)…Did Dinosaurs Die Before the Fall?| National Catholic Register

Carnivorous animals existed and killed other animals, God allowed for the eating of plants which suggested plant death, God gave humans the order to “subdue” the lesser beings which can suggest death to lower beings, etc.

In the end, the argument goes that the fall only had direct consequences to humans and the taking away of their gift of immortality; their full communion with God is severed.

Now, that all sounds like a plausible explanation of things given that it agrees with how the natural world works, but how do you reconcile that with scripture passages like the following one…

“For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.” Romans 8: 20-23

Does this suggest that the whole of creation was affected by the sin of Adam? Or does this passage simply imply that the present state creation isn’t in it’s final state as it shall be in the kingdom?

Any thoughts are helpful… but remember this isn’t an evolution thread so please stick with the subject strictly in question.

+Pax Christi+

 

[poche]

There had to have been death. Otherwise how could God say, “If you eat of the forbidden fruit you will die.”

 

[Vico]

…
In the end, the argument goes that the fall only had direct consequences to humans and the taking away of their gift of immortality; their full communion with God is severed.
…

It is held that two types of evil resulted from the fall: physical evil and moral evil. The third, so called evil, is metaphysical evil, which is described in the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Metaphysical evil is the limitation by one another of various component parts of the natural world. Through this mutual limitation natural objects are for the most part prevented from attaining to their full or ideal perfection, whether by the constant pressure of physical condition, or by sudden catastrophes. Thus, animal and vegetable organisms are variously influenced by climate and other natural causes; predatory animals depend for their existence on the destruction of life; nature is subject to storms and convulsions, and its order depends on a system of perpetual decay and renewal due to the interaction of its constituent parts.

Sharpe, A. (1909). Evil. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm

 

[redal]

Prior to the fall, only rational beings (man) had biological immortality, and it was lost as a result of the fall.

 

[Neithan]

I agree with Akin’s article that Aquinas answered this comprehensively. Because human beings alone among animals are rational persons who can reflect on themselves, the fall is when death entered the world as a spiritual experience, rather than just a physical effect. Adam and Eve were given preternatural gifts of immortality that were lost in the fall.

If we fully draw out the implications of humanity with preternatural gifts, we can imagine how that should have changed the world if they had propagated in paradise and developed without sin. Since we were given to govern the material world as a unique composite of matter and spirit, the fall left it “subjected to futility” as St. Paul writes: it lost its intended leadership and is now in bondage to the corruption we introduced, namely, a physical decay without spiritual renewal.

 

[Gorgias]

Does this suggest that the whole of creation was affected by the sin of Adam?

Yes. But what it doesn’t say is that there was no death in creation prior to the fall.

 

[EndTimes]

So, after traversing many threads on the general subject of possible death before the fall (as in, the physical death of things in the natural world), there seems to be split thought as to whether physical death, even to humans, was existent prior to the fall.

Absolutely nothing in Scriptures, Tradition and Magisterium - suggests anything of that sort.

Keeping one’s Mind and Nose to the Grindstone… should be our concern…

_