On Once Saved Always Saved

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mVitus

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I was thinking about this when I thought about something in regards to what some Protestant churches say.

1: Once saved always saved
2: Homosexuals are damned

But what about the man who accepted Jesus as his personal Savior and then went on to fornicate with another man. (Same for adulterers, murderers, ect.)
Would an OSAS church still say they’re saved? I’m curious since I have a feeling that my understanding of OSAS is a bit simplistic and if I’m ever in a debate on it, it’d be better to know what is actually taught about it.
 
In lieu of digging into ancient posts of mine, I will try to do it from memory. 😃
In situations like you describe, OSAS becomes NSITFP. Never saved in the first place.
You see the problem with OSAS is you are just as equally sure who ends up in Hell as who ends up in Heaven.
They would be wise to seek the wisdom of Protestant CS Lewis. Paraphrasing, Hell is not about the other guy, it’s about you and me.
 
mVitus said:
I was thinking about this when I thought about something in regards to what some Protestant churches say.

1: Once saved always saved
2: Homosexuals are damned

But what about the man who accepted Jesus as his personal Savior and then went on to fornicate with another man. (Same for adulterers, murderers, ect.)
Would an OSAS church still say they’re saved? I’m curious since I have a feeling that my understanding of OSAS is a bit simplistic and if I’m ever in a debate on it, it’d be better to know what is actually taught about it.
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There would actually be 2 different responses depending on who you asked; One would say, indeed the man is saved, but will reap the consequences in this life and lose rewards in the life to come. A different one would say, no, the man was not ever really saved in the first place.
 
Kliska said:
There would actually be 2 different responses depending on who you asked; One would say, indeed the man is saved, but will reap the consequences in this life and lose rewards in the life to come. A different one would say, no, the man was not ever really saved in the first place.
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Would that be NRSITFP? 😃
J/K
 
OSAS or eternal security of the believer as it is sometimes called is, as preached by most of its proponents a very badly unscriptural doctrine.

John Martignoni has an excellent Bible study and free MP3 on this that I can highly recommend. It’s one of the best I’ve ever seen.

In order to do more than just counter n-C apologetics on OSAS I would also recommend CAs excellent article Assurance of Salvation? which will give you a good foundation to present correct Biblical and Catholic teaching on this topic.

(Wow…this is my 27,000th post! Never imagined that…Glory be to God!!!)
 
Church_Militant said:
OSAS or eternal security of the believer as it is sometimes called is, as preached by most of its proponents a very badly unscriptural doctrine.

John Martignoni has an excellent Bible study and free MP3 on this that I can highly recommend. It’s one of the best I’ve ever seen.

In order to do more than just counter n-C apologetics on OSAS I would also recommend CAs excellent article Assurance of Salvation? which will give you a good foundation to present correct Biblical and Catholic teaching on this topic.

(Wow…this is my 27,000th post! Never imagined that…Glory be to God!!!)
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I second John’s mP3. He is down to earth and a straight forward apologist. His theology is taken straight from the Bible and pretty easy to understand.

Also, I agree NRSITFP. 😉
 
mVitus said:
I was thinking about this when I thought about something in regards to what some Protestant churches say.

1: Once saved always saved
2: Homosexuals are damned

But what about the man who accepted Jesus as his personal Savior and then went on to fornicate with another man. (Same for adulterers, murderers, ect.)
Would an OSAS church still say they’re saved? I’m curious since I have a feeling that my understanding of OSAS is a bit simplistic and if I’m ever in a debate on it, it’d be better to know what is actually taught about it.
Click to expand...
No. The protestant church would still say they are damned. Homosexuality by itself (not the acts) is taken very badly by many protestant churches. We are catholics and believe in different things.
 
The usual explanation is that if someone is “saved” and then goes on to commit a serious sin, it indicates that they never truly were saved in the first place.
 
TheTrinitySaves said:
No. The protestant church would still say they are damned. Homosexuality by itself (not the acts) is taken very badly by many protestant churches. We are catholics and believe in different things.
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Not all Protestant churches believe that.
It’s taught in fundamentalist/evangelical circles.
The different thing you mention is that OSAS believes salvation is a one-time event.
Catholic, Orthodox, and many mainline Protestant churches teach salvation is a process.
 
JustaServant said:
Not all Protestant churches believe that.
It’s taught in fundamentalist/evangelical circles.
The different thing you mention is that OSAS believes salvation is a one-time event.
Catholic, Orthodox, and many mainline Protestant churches teach salvation is a process.
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Agreed, I should have clarified
 
OSAS is a dangerous philosophy, in my opinion. It gives license to carnal Christians to continue to live that way and think it’s ok – after all, your ticket to eternal bliss has already been punched, right?

Those who adhere to OSAS are akin to declaring the football game over at halftime and thinking that the second half is irrelevant to the final result because you think you already have won the game. As the Atlanta Falcons found out in the Super Bowl, the second half is important, too.

I believe the Rev Billy Graham (whom I deeply admire and would consider to be on the road to sainthood if he were Catholic) is an exception. I’m pretty sure he believes in eternal security of the beiever, too, but he also has lived his life in such a way that he walks the walk on a regular basis in addition to talking the talk.
 
Tommy999 said:
OSAS is a dangerous philosophy, in my opinion. It gives license to carnal Christians to continue to live that way and think it’s ok – after all, your ticket to eternal bliss has already been punched, right?

Those who adhere to OSAS are akin to declaring the football game over at halftime and thinking that the second half is irrelevant to the final result because you think you already won the game. As the Atlanta Falcons found out in the Super Bowl, this is not true.

I believe the Rev Billy Graham (whom I deeply admire and would consider to be on the road to sainthood if he were Catholic) is an exception. I’m pretty sure he believes in eternal security of the beiever, too, but he also has lived his life in such a way that he walks the walk on a regular basis in addition to talking the talk.
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👍
 
Kliska said:
That’s popular with all the FI’s. (Fruit Inspectors) 😛
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God bless Kliska,

I never heard those words (Fruit inspectors), when I read the words the Holy Spirit instantly put into my mind via my spirit:

A Christian among many other things must be a “Fruit Inspector” as well, this is not a suggestion of God, it is a COMMAND of God! :yup:

Thess.5:21; Matt.7: 15-18; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible.)

“Test EVERYTHING; hold fast what is good.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

You will KNOW them by THEIR FRUITS.” Emphasis added.

In we closely study the following Bible verses and we don’t want to be deceived (Matt.24:24); we have a lot of fruit inspections to do.

Matt.7:15-18; Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:4-5, 11, 24; Acts 20:29-31; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2 Pet.2:1-3; Jude 4.

God bless.

LatinRight
 
LatinRight said:
God bless Kliska,

I never heard those words (Fruit inspectors), when I read the words the Holy Spirit instantly put into my mind via my spirit:

A Christian among many other things must be a “Fruit Inspector” as well, this is not a suggestion of God, it is a COMMAND of God!

Thess.5:21; Matt.7: 15-18; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible.)

“Test EVERYTHING; hold fast what is good.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

You will KNOW them by THEIR FRUITS.” Emphasis added.

In we closely study the following Bible verses and we don’t want to be deceived (Matt.24:24); we have a lot of fruit inspections to do.

Matt.7:15-18; Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:4-5, 11, 24; Acts 20:29-31; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2 Pet.2:1-3; Jude 4.

God bless.

LatinRight
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I’m a lifelong protestant Latin’, I’ve heard sermon upon sermon on all of this before, mainly from my fundamentalist brethren. 😉
 
Kliska said:
That’s popular with all the FI’s. (Fruit Inspectors) 😛
Click to expand...
God bless Kliska,

I never heard those words (Fruit inspectors), when I read the words the Holy Spirit instantly put into my mind via my spirit:

As Christians among many other things we must be “Fruit Inspectors” as well, this is not a suggestion of God, but it is a COMMAND of God! :yup:

1 Thess.5:21; Matt.7: 15-18; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible.)

“Test EVERYTHING; hold fast what is good.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

You will KNOW them by THEIR FRUITS.”

In we closely study the following Bible verses and we don’t want to be deceived (Matt.24:24); we have a lot of fruit inspections to do.

Matt.7:15-18; Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:4-5, 11, 24; Acts 20:29-31; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2 Pet.2:1-3; Jude 4.

God bless.

LatinRight
 
Kliska said:
I’m a lifelong protestant Latin’, I’ve heard sermon upon sermon on all of this before, mainly from my fundamentalist brethren. 😉
Click to expand...
God bless Kliska,

As Christians among many other things we must be “Fruit Inspectors” as well, this is not a suggestion of God, but it is a COMMAND of God! :highprayer:

1 Thess.5:21; Matt.7: 15-18; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible.)

“Test EVERYTHING; hold fast what is good.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

You will KNOW them by THEIR FRUITS.” :highprayer:

In we closely study the following Bible verses and we don’t want to be deceived (Matt.24:24); we have a lot of fruit inspections to do.

Matt.7:15-18; Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:4-5, 11, 24; Acts 20:29-31; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2 Pet.2:1-3; Jude 4.

I know Kliska you heard sermon upon sermon on all of this before, but I also know millions and millions of Christian never heard even one sermon on it and as the result; Matt.24:24 have been fulfilled and will be fulfill in many Christians as it is described in 2 Pet.2:1-3. :highprayer:

God bless.

LatinRight
 
LatinRight said:
God bless Kliska,

As Christians among many other things we must be “Fruit Inspectors” as well, this is not a suggestion of God, but it is a COMMAND of God!

1 Thess.5:21; Matt.7: 15-18; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible.)

“Test EVERYTHING; hold fast what is good.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

You will KNOW them by THEIR FRUITS.”

In we closely study the following Bible verses and we don’t want to be deceived (Matt.24:24); we have a lot of fruit inspections to do.

Matt.7:15-18; Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:4-5, 11, 24; Acts 20:29-31; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2 Pet.2:1-3; Jude 4.

I know Kliska you heard sermon upon sermon on all of this before, but I also know millions and millions of Christian never heard even one sermon on it and as the result; Matt.24:24 have been fulfilled and will be fulfill in many Christians as it is described in 2 Pet.2:1-3.

God bless.

LatinRight
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Yes, Latin’ all important scripture (as all scripture is), and as a good Berean Protestant, I’d make sure everyone is looking at the verses themselves, the original language of the verses, the context of those verses, and to whom they apply. However, this thread is about OSAS, not about FI’s.
 
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