On Our Watch:The Dafur Joke

[Walkerboy88]

I was watching PBS Frontline recently. The title of the program was “On Our Watch”. I was embarassed . The world admits that what’s going on there is genocide…but America does nothing. The impression I got after the program was that it was another oil,and power situation.:ehh:

I didn’t know about the oil situation in Dafur,and China’s involvement. It made us appear that we can invade Iraq for social injustices carried out by Sadaam,but we wag our finger at the government of Dafur because China has interest in the oil there.

Wisdom,or weakness? Why does the church in general sit snug while this goes on.Donations?? OK. However,I see no visable stand taken by the church on this issue. No stand that will cause our government to move. Do we care,or is it the “other” guy’s problem. We seem to be good at that.:tsktsk: Haven’t we learned?..America has this theory that we’re invincible…and bin Laden proved that there’s a seam in the armor. THAT’S how the extremists increase their power. They prey on the despair of oppressed people can recruit them to fight their battles to the death. I mean,to them,what do they have to live for? To them, if they have no reason to live then die with honor…while THEY recruit, we have ANOTHER inquiry…ANOTHER investigation…ANOTHER 'independent report…ANOTHER statement of condemnation…is that stuff working!!! :nope: NOPE!! Are we gonna wait till it’s too late to address situations like this. Are we drunk on power like England was when we changed the rules of engagement to become a nation. Seems like history’s repeating.

pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darfur/

 

[Ridgerunner]

I was watching PBS Frontline recently. The title of the program was “On Our Watch”. I was embarassed . The world admits that what’s going on there is genocide…but America does nothing. The impression I got after the program was that it was another oil,and power situation.:ehh:

I didn’t know about the oil situation in Dafur,and China’s involvement. It made us appear that we can invade Iraq for social injustices carried out by Sadaam,but we wag our finger at the government of Dafur because China has interest in the oil there.

Wisdom,or weakness? Why does the church in general sit snug while this goes on.Donations?? OK. However,I see no visable stand taken by the church on this issue. No stand that will cause our government to move. Do we care,or is it the “other” guy’s problem. We seem to be good at that.:tsktsk: Haven’t we learned?..America has this theory that we’re invincible…and bin Laden proved that there’s a seam in the armor. THAT’S how the extremists increase their power. They prey on the despair of oppressed people can recruit them to fight their battles to the death. I mean,to them,what do they have to live for? To them, if they have no reason to live then die with honor…while THEY recruit, we have ANOTHER inquiry…ANOTHER investigation…ANOTHER 'independent report…ANOTHER statement of condemnation…is that stuff working!!! :nope: NOPE!! Are we gonna wait till it’s too late to address situations like this. Are we drunk on power like England was when we changed the rules of engagement to become a nation. Seems like history’s repeating.

pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darfur/

PBS is pretty much dedicated to the proposition that everything America does is wrong and that nothing it does is right, so I suspect you were watching yet another PBS program, the purpose of which was to push that line.

What do you want the US to do in Darfur? Declare war on Sudan? That’s what it would be, you know, declared or not, and it would make Iraq look like a walk in the park. I suspect the anti-American folk would oppose an American war in Sudan in the same way they oppose Iraq, and that the only reason they espouse American war in Sudan is to be able to say for the moment that they approve “humanitarian war”, but not a war in which national security can be greatly affected. I, for one, don’t believe their bellicosity is real. If it was, they would have long ago espoused war to save the Christians and animists in southern Sudan. But saving Christians is not part of the leftist agenda. Once we were in, they would find a way to say George Bush “lied” about conditions in Darfur, in order to grab Sudanese oil.

America cannot police the entire world. Sudan is not the only place where vicious political groups slaughter their opponents, real or imagined. It’s only that the scale is more dramatic in Sudan. But even if America could police the world, the left would be screaming “imperialism!”, “American empire-building!” and so on. The left, which controls the major media, and not just PBS, would mount a relentless propaganda campaign to make the American people lose heart in the Sudanese War, which would be far more terrible than the War in Iraq, and the whole effort would collapse. Americans might then truly become isolationist, which is what the Left wants, so its comrades around the world can prevail everywhere.

Finally, it is not the Church’s business to encourage war. Is that what you want the Church to do?

 

[melensdad]

If we (the USA) sends troops into Darfur then we are “imperialists” and we are also a big powerful “Christian” nation attacking a helpless “Muslim” nation. So Russia and China will condemn us for our cowboy imperialistic tendencies. Al Quaida and the radical Muslims will claim we are on a crusade against their religion. The United Nations has already been told to stay out, and the reality is the U.N. is a gutless organization that now seems to exist only to attack the US for any actions we take, and chastise us for any actions we don’t take. So we are damned if we do, and damned if we don’t.

Personally, I’ve stated long ago that we should just run arms into the refugee camps so those folks can at least protect themselves. The refugees, many of whom are Christians, are being slaughtered, the women being raped, and the whole of the civilized world just wrings their hands in dismay. Cries of “somebody should do something” are often heard, but when anyone actually proposes to send in troops the government of Sudan says it is an ‘internal’ matter and they say they are equipped to deal with it and to keep our troops out. . . yet they freely send their Muslim and tribal based death squads into the camps.

At some point we need to simply stand up and say ENOUGH.

No “liberal” in our nation wants to ever commit troops. And given the lunacy of our current President’s actions in Iraq, no “conservative” in our nation is willing to commit troops. That leaves the United Nations, the E.U., NATO, or the old Warsaw Pact.

• Russia and the old Warsaw Pact, whatever is left of it, will not step outside its boundaries to do good. Especially if there is nothing in it for them.
• NATO is a self defense pact, none of the nations will get involved under the guise of NATO.
• The European Union is an economic association, with ties to social justice, but seems to limit itself to its own boundaries.
• The United Nations has already been told to stay out, and both China and Russia, which have permanent seats on the security committee, have agreed, thus rendering the U.N. impotent.

I don’t see an end in sight. So maybe a message should come from the Pope, and perhaps the leaders of the Orthodox churches that are reasonably allied with Rome, to the Muslim leaders to ask for some sort of cooperation to end the bloodshed. The Muslims sent a letter to Rome to ask for a greater level of understanding and cooperation. It may be time for a well organized response? But I suspect it will have to be backed up with firearms.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Personally, I’ve stated long ago that we should just run arms into the refugee camps so those folks can at least protect themselves.

At some point we need to simply stand up and say ENOUGH.

No “liberal” in our nation wants to ever commit troops. And given the lunacy of our current President’s actions in Iraq, no “conservative” in our nation is willing to commit troops. That leaves the United Nations, the E.U., NATO, or the old Warsaw Pact.

• Russia and the old Warsaw Pact, whatever is left of it, will not step outside its boundaries to do good. Especially if there is nothing in it for them.

So maybe a message should come from the Pope, and perhaps the leaders of the Orthodox churches that are reasonably allied with Rome, to the Muslim leaders to ask for some sort of cooperation to end the bloodshed. The Muslims sent a letter to Rome to ask for a greater level of understanding and cooperation. It may be time for a well organized response? But I suspect it will have to be backed up with firearms.

I agree in part and disagree in part. Other nations of the world act in their national interest only. Intervention in Darfur serves no nation’s interest.

Nor does any nation besides the US have the “WW III” war-fighting capability (Britain can do so, but only when allied with the US) and the ability to project it, that are the absolute minimum requirements of fighting in an environment where the “resuced” are as likely as not to turn on their “rescuers”. There are a lot of factions in Darfur, and Sudan itself is a populous nation with plenty of weapons. The U.S., and it alone, could probably “decapitate” Sudan and destroy its regular army, (which it would have to do if even one American soldier set foot in Darfur) but then it would find itself in a huge Somalia unless it exercised the extreme ruthlessness that it would never exercise.

Of course, one of these days, China will develop “WW III” capabilities and IS utterly ruthless. If someday a major Chinese fleet showed up in the Persian Gulf, those Mullahs in Iran and the haughty Imams elsewhere would trip all over themselves to ingratiate themselves with a power that would kill half their people and appropriate all their resources without the slightest compunction. And none of the leftists in the west who are so fond of hurling “imperialist warmonger” at the US, would dare even speak ill of it. When that day comes, as it someday will, the US had better have established something like stability in at least some portion of the Middle East, or we will have seen our last drop of foreign oil. That’s a very serious matter, because even if we achieved energy independence, (which we could but for the environmentalists) that same scenario will make Europe (which can’t) totally dependent on Russia, which is still ruled by the new version of the KGB, and has forgotten none of its old ambitions. If that day comes, people will think of the Axis threat of the 1930s and 1940s as mild indeed. However tragic we might feel Darfur is, it is the obligation of a government to preserve its own people first. As much as some like to say Bush is insane, it must be admitted that his objective, if not his methodology, is truly vital to the US.

The Muslims care nothing about what the Pope says, except in finding an excuse to be even more confrontational. Darfur is a terrible tragedy, but right now, there is nobody on earth who is going to do anything about it. We can’t, and nobody else has the desire or the ability to carry it out.

 

[AHapka]

I was embarassed . The world admits that what’s going on there is genocide…but America does nothing.

Why does America have to “do something?” The world has made it plainly clear that we are a bunch of imperialists, and that we went into Iraq to extend our tentacles. Anything we did would be roundly condemned by the world, irregardless of our intentions.

If there is one thing we should do, it’s ensure a steady flow of arms so that someone wins. Plain and simple.

The United States would still be fighting it’s civil war from the 1860’s if NATO had intervened and our arms had been cut off. Instead, one side one a military victory and caused the other to surrender. Then it was over, and eventually lead to a better situation. I believe that it cost fewer lives in the long run. Look at the rebuilding that has happened since.

Supply the arms, and let them fight it out until someone wins. Preferably so that they can rise up and overthrow the dictators themselves.

Don’t forget, there are many minority groups in Iran who are unhappy with their current goverment, but have made if very clear that if the US steps in…they will fight against us along side the government. Such is national unity.

Andy

 

[seekerz]

Why not compare Kosovo and Sudan instead of Iraq and Sudan? The comparison may be more apt, I believe. The reason given for entering Iraq was not genocide.

It is a difficult but undeniable fact of life that some lives are valued more than others and I try not to dwell on the why’s lest bitterness creep in.

Instead, I have kind of ‘adopted’ St Bakhita (originally from Sudan); through her intercession maybe the international help that is lacking, will be supplanted by help of a superior kind. Now if only I could find a novena to her…

 

[Mankney]

I understand that the President has gone to the UN to try to get a consensus for action and as typical with the UN, no action was taken. This was at least a couple years ago. I remember this wis during the big debate on the US being unilateral in Iraq. We were denounced for Iraq and when we tried to get support for Dafur, nobody at the UN stepped up to the plate.

 

[vern_humphrey]

As I have said before, those who would “solve” the problem of Darfur had better be prepared to expend a lot of ammunition. And to be attacked as “War Mongers” who started a war “for oil” and “mismanaged” it.

 

[agmoose02]

If we (the USA) sends troops into Darfur then we are “imperialists” and we are also a big powerful “Christian” nation attacking a helpless “Muslim” nation. So Russia and China will condemn us for our cowboy imperialistic tendencies. Al Quaida and the radical Muslims will claim we are on a crusade against their religion. The United Nations has already been told to stay out, and the reality is the U.N. is a gutless organization that now seems to exist only to attack the US for any actions we take, and chastise us for any actions we don’t take. So we are damned if we do, and damned if we don’t.

Personally, I’ve stated long ago that we should just run arms into the refugee camps so those folks can at least protect themselves. The refugees, many of whom are Christians, are being slaughtered, the women being raped, and the whole of the civilized world just wrings their hands in dismay. Cries of “somebody should do something” are often heard, but when anyone actually proposes to send in troops the government of Sudan says it is an ‘internal’ matter and they say they are equipped to deal with it and to keep our troops out. . . yet they freely send their Muslim and tribal based death squads into the camps.

At some point we need to simply stand up and say ENOUGH.

No “liberal” in our nation wants to ever commit troops. And given the lunacy of our current President’s actions in Iraq, no “conservative” in our nation is willing to commit troops. That leaves the United Nations, the E.U., NATO, or the old Warsaw Pact.

• Russia and the old Warsaw Pact, whatever is left of it, will not step outside its boundaries to do good. Especially if there is nothing in it for them.
• NATO is a self defense pact, none of the nations will get involved under the guise of NATO.
• The European Union is an economic association, with ties to social justice, but seems to limit itself to its own boundaries.
• The United Nations has already been told to stay out, and both China and Russia, which have permanent seats on the security committee, have agreed, thus rendering the U.N. impotent.

I don’t see an end in sight. So maybe a message should come from the Pope, and perhaps the leaders of the Orthodox churches that are reasonably allied with Rome, to the Muslim leaders to ask for some sort of cooperation to end the bloodshed. The Muslims sent a letter to Rome to ask for a greater level of understanding and cooperation. It may be time for a well organized response? But I suspect it will have to be backed up with firearms.

Well said, I agree whole heartedly. I wish more people would wake up and expose the hypocrisy of the left in condemning the Iraq war and espousing intervention in Sudan. I for one am tired of America taking the blame for everything done and not done. We are one country and can’t do it alone. I think we should be sending troops to Sudan and other such situations, but the rest of the world that is simply complaining needs to get off their rear ends and support this. Not only with words, but with actions and material aid.

 

[agmoose02]

Why not compare Kosovo and Sudan instead of Iraq and Sudan? The comparison may be more apt, I believe. The reason given for entering Iraq was not genocide.

It is a difficult but undeniable fact of life that some lives are valued more than others and I try not to dwell on the why’s lest bitterness creep in.

Instead, I have kind of ‘adopted’ St Bakhita (originally from Sudan); through her intercession maybe the international help that is lacking, will be supplanted by help of a superior kind. Now if only I could find a novena to her…

Let us not compare with Kosovo. If you want an example of borderline criminal warfare perpetrated by the United States and the UN that was it. We empowered radical muslim Albanians to steal away land that has historically belonged to Serbia since the 8th century and where some of the Serbian Kingdom’s greatest battles were fought against the Turks. To make this worse, the claim of the Albanians to the land cant really be traced back more than 60 years or so. The Albanian population of Kosovo resulted from illegal immigration and refugees from Hoxha’s regime. To make matters worse, the “ethnic cleansing” on the part of the Serbians was simply trying to put down a rebellion on the part of the Kosovan muslims of Albanian descent and expel the militants from their territory. Since then we have supported the muslims and essentiall set up a terror state within Europe that systematically conducts ethnic cleansing against the Orthodox Christian Serbian population with no interference and sometimes active aid from UN forces. This was essentially theft of a province from the rightful people.

 

[snowfly]

Wisdom,or weakness? Why does the church in general sit snug while this goes on.Donations??

Funny you should mention donations, I was sent a letter 6th Dec: 2007 asking for donations.

Well I’m living hand to mouth myself, but in comparison I’m richer than these poor people that don’t have the basics, food.

So I made an online donation, not a lot more I can do, apart from finance and prayer.

Does anyone know if were allowed to appeal for donations through CA ?

I wouldn’t say the Church is doing nothing Trócaire operates within the Catholic Church, every-year millions goto that group, and this year we had a second special appeal, and all those buckets my friend are in Irish Catholic Churches.

Trócaire’s work in Darfur

Concern is also helping in Darfur.