On the Fence

[Christy74]

Grace and Peace,

I don’t like to think that I ‘left’ Catholicism by entering Holy Orthodoxy, in a way I never found Catholicism. It’s gone. What is happening today in the Western Church is reconstruction in the mist of collapse. I am Orthodox because it is all that is left of the Ancient Church.

Ultimately what drove me from Rome was Infallibility and the Papacy.

Chris being on “Catholic Answers Forums” makes me want to follow you into the fullness of the Orthodox Faith.

I’m getting more and more frustrated with the attitude of Roman Catholics based on their complete misunderstanding that Eastern Catholics ARE Orthodox Christians in belief and practices and that our Patriarchs are in union with Rome doesn’t mean that we’ve changed our beliefs as the Roman Church has done over the centuries.

Why should I remain caught in the middle so to speak?

Why should I have to defend our Faith to fellow Catholics and besides I’m running out of excuses for my remaining in union with Rome when speaking with other Orthodox Christians who are not in union with Rome.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

[Aydan]

no you’re not I feel frustrated too and I’m not even in the Eastern Church I wish the Latin rite was more open to other cultures like the Eastern Church is I had to fight just to have my little Turkish medallion blessed by the priest I had people telling me it couldn’t be done and then not in my own parish but some people on here are completely opposed to me even speaking Turkish at mass so I can pray on the grounds that I might disturb someone else. Now my parish is huge because I go to a cathedral and I’m a good two or 3 feet away from the nearest pew so nobody can even hear me when I am speaking Turkish and it makes me mad that the Latin Church does not celebrate or even recognize the Turkish martyrs. I think the problem is that in the Roman Church we are not taught anything about the Eastern Church at all and that leads to a lot of misunderstandings like I don’t even understand why some of the Eastern churches are not in communion with the pope for instance. I wish somebody would explain that to me so I could have a better understanding of it. I just cannot bring myself to switch to a church that is not in communion with the pope I just can’t do it because I believe in the papacy. But I took to heart what the other poster said celebrate the things that are Latin there are good but yet also recognize and celebrate the beauty of the Eastern Church. That poster has inspired me to find online broadcasts of the divine liturgy so that when the new martyrs of the Turkish yoke are celebrated I can watch it and honor their sacrifice.

Chris being on “Catholic Answers Forums” makes me want to follow you into the fullness of the Orthodox Faith.

I’m getting more and more frustrated with the attitude of Roman Catholics based on their complete misunderstanding that Eastern Catholics ARE Orthodox Christians in belief and practices and that our Patriarchs are in union with Rome doesn’t mean that we’ve changed our beliefs as the Roman Church has done over the centuries.

Why should I remain caught in the middle so to speak?

Why should I have to defend our Faith to fellow Catholics and besides I’m running out of excuses for my remaining in union with Rome when speaking with other Orthodox Christians who are not in union with Rome.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

[Badaliyyah]

Chris being on “Catholic Answers Forums” makes me want to follow you into the fullness of the Orthodox Faith.

I’m getting more and more frustrated with the attitude of Roman Catholics based on their complete misunderstanding that Eastern Catholics ARE Orthodox Christians in belief and practices and that our Patriarchs are in union with Rome doesn’t mean that we’ve changed our beliefs as the Roman Church has done over the centuries.

Why should I remain caught in the middle so to speak?

Why should I have to defend our Faith to fellow Catholics and besides I’m running out of excuses for my remaining in union with Rome when speaking with other Orthodox Christians who are not in union with Rome.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

I realize this is not the case for everyone. Some people in Eastern Catholic Churches can make the move to Orthodoxy and be very comfortable in doing so. I also feel this temptation from time to time (the temptation seems particularly strong on Sunday mornings when I am confronted with the fact that the Melkite parish is significantly farther away than the Antiochian Orthodox one! ). But I know that for me Orthodoxy is not a solution. Not only because no Church is perfect (though this is true – they all have their fights and scandals and problems to wrestle with), but even more because even as an Orthodox Christian I would still be caught in the middle. One would still be faced with a sense of longing and a sense of pain. Now we long for reunion with those who are admittedly our very near kin: Antioch. We long to see the Apostolic Church of Antioch be the vibrant and whole reality that it is capable of being. Should we leave communion with Rome, though, we will find ourselves longing, with a very similar sense of pain, for communion with our sister Church in Rome. To be Melkite is to be caught in this middle. This in fact was how the Melkite Church was born. Constantinople could not understand our longing for communion with our sister in Rome, was threatened and angered by it.

Following up on that thought, I would say that the communion of Catholic Churches appreciates that middle much better than Orthodoxy does at the moment. The uniqueness of our Churches is confirmed. There is a recognition that we have sacrificed something to be in communion with Rome. It is permissible and even a good that we long for communion with our family, that we feel close to them.

Within Orthodoxy there is an acknowledgement of the importance of Rome, but I think time and history have convinced the Orthodox that for now than get by without Rome. There is no urgency to the pain. There is even some suspicion of those who do express the desire for unity (and one need only think of the beating that the Ecumenical Patriarch regularly takes, especially from Moscow, for being a Papal stooge).

To be Melkite is to be in the middle. The Body of Christ is torn and broken, and we are the ones who mark the place where those wounds exist. For now this is what our Church does.

Finally, I would just say that the Latins you meet on a forum like this are not the typical person in the pew, nor are they very representative of the people in Rome who have made the East their lifelong concern. Quite honestly we have never been more respected by the Latin Church than we have been since Vatican2. Of course Rome is learning and still trying to figure out how deal with the non-Latin world…to find its place in the Body of Christ. And, the people in the pews barely even know we exist. Do not the occasional rabid and nostalgic Latin should not discourage you or even really bother you. (And when they do, remember that there are plenty of rabid and nostalgic Orthodox out there as well). The typical Roman Catholic you meet, as you probably well know, is much more curious than anything else to find out what it is we do and believe.

Salaam al-Maseeh.

 

[Ghosty]

I realize this is not the case for everyone. Some people in Eastern Catholic Churches can make the move to Orthodoxy and be very comfortable in doing so. I also feel this temptation from time to time (the temptation seems particularly strong on Sunday mornings when I am confronted with the fact that the Melkite parish is significantly farther away than the Antiochian Orthodox one! ). But I know that for me Orthodoxy is not a solution. Not only because no Church is perfect (though this is true – they all have their fights and scandals and problems to wrestle with), but even more because even as an Orthodox Christian I would still be caught in the middle. One would still be faced with a sense of longing and a sense of pain. Now we long for reunion with those who are admittedly our very near kin: Antioch. We long to see the Apostolic Church of Antioch be the vibrant and whole reality that it is capable of being. Should we leave communion with Rome, though, we will find ourselves longing, with a very similar sense of pain, for communion with our sister Church in Rome. To be Melkite is to be caught in this middle. This in fact was how the Melkite Church was born. Constantinople could not understand our longing for communion with our sister in Rome, was threatened and angered by it.

Following up on that thought, I would say that the communion of Catholic Churches appreciates that middle much better than Orthodoxy does at the moment. The uniqueness of our Churches is confirmed. There is a recognition that we have sacrificed something to be in communion with Rome. It is permissible and even a good that we long for communion with our family, that we feel close to them.

Within Orthodoxy there is an acknowledgement of the importance of Rome, but I think time and history have convinced the Orthodox that for now than get by without Rome. There is no urgency to the pain. There is even some suspicion of those who do express the desire for unity (and one need only think of the beating that the Ecumenical Patriarch regularly takes, especially from Moscow, for being a Papal stooge).

To be Melkite is to be in the middle. The Body of Christ is torn and broken, and we are the ones who mark the place where those wounds exist. For now this is what our Church does.

Finally, I would just say that the Latins you meet on a forum like this are not the typical person in the pew, nor are they very representative of the people in Rome who have made the East their lifelong concern. Quite honestly we have never been more respected by the Latin Church than we have been since Vatican2. Of course Rome is learning and still trying to figure out how deal with the non-Latin world…to find its place in the Body of Christ. And, the people in the pews barely even know we exist. Do not the occasional rabid and nostalgic Latin should not discourage you or even really bother you. (And when they do, remember that there are plenty of rabid and nostalgic Orthodox out there as well). The typical Roman Catholic you meet, as you probably well know, is much more curious than anything else to find out what it is we do and believe.

Salaam al-Maseeh.

Excellent post, my sentiments exactly!

This is why I often come out defending the “Latin side” on this particular forum; this is a place for the Eastern expressions to really shine, and sometimes the shining comes across with a bit of an overzealous burn towards the Latin tradition. In more Latin-dominated settings it’s almost completely reversed for me, as I defend St. Gregory Palamas and try to explain the Essence/Energies distinction to those who’s knee-jerk reaction is that everything non-Latin is heretical or “undeveloped and backwards”.

One of the main things that will always keep me in the Catholic Communion is the sense that it is here that the various Apostolic traditions can express themselves with at least an honest chance of mutual understanding. Where else will you find a devout Copt and devout Assyrian talking about their common Faith? The Communion has its bumps, some fairly serious (I think many non-Latin Churches do need to further develop their independence, and be allowed to further develop by the Vatican, not in terms of distancing from Rome, but in terms of making their own decisions and acting like full-fledged Churches; no more Vatican office designed to make policy decisions for Eastern Churches) but it’s still the only place I can feel truly Catholic. Where else can I defend the Latins, the Byzantines, and the Assyrians all at once?

That being said, I also completely agree with the sense of pain, and that’s something else I feel I can only fully express as a Catholic. As a Catholic I can recognize schismaticism on both sides, without feeling like I’m abandoning my Church or Communion. Are we all schismatics?

Peace and God bless!

 

[Badaliyyah]

As a Catholic I can recognize schismaticism on both sides, without feeling like I’m abandoning my Church or Communion. Are we all schismatics?

Great ending!

Mar Elias, Pray for Us.

salaam.

 

[Aramis]

Am I the only one who feels this way?

No.

However, timeline the events from the passion onwards, and one finds Peter and the rest of the 10 were already given the keys before the charge to Peter to “Feed my sheep.” This implies quite strongly that Peter’s mission is more than that of the others.

Union with the See of Peter is vital; it is axiomatic that it defines Catholocism.

But this bit of wisdom crossed EWTN today (I tuned in to watch the dedication of the Shrine of OL of Guadalupe): God heaps the gift of tribulation on his closest friends.

So, if you feel Petrine unity is important, as I feel it is, it is this trial which marks you as friend of God.

Besides, it is essential to teach the Romans… show them the spark of their ignorance, and how to cure it, and you may ignite a fire of exploration into their faith.

 

[mardukm]

Dear sister Christy,

Chris being on “Catholic Answers Forums” makes me want to follow you into the fullness of the Orthodox Faith.

I’m getting more and more frustrated with the attitude of Roman Catholics based on their complete misunderstanding that Eastern Catholics ARE Orthodox Christians in belief and practices and that our Patriarchs are in union with Rome doesn’t mean that we’ve changed our beliefs as the Roman Church has done over the centuries.

Why should I remain caught in the middle so to speak?

Why should I have to defend our Faith to fellow Catholics and besides I’m running out of excuses for my remaining in union with Rome when speaking with other Orthodox Christians who are not in union with Rome.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

As a brotherly suggestion, why don’t you relax for a while and let other Eastern and Oriental Catholics here take the load?

If this site is causing you to doubt your identity as a Catholic, it may not be the best place for you right now. I would suggest a place like Byzcath.org who is an ecumenical website of Eastern Christians, Catholic and Orthodox (their moderators are from both Churches).

I think we all have to admit that this website was begun as a site specifically for LATIN Catholic concerns against Protestants. I don;t think it is particularly well-equipped to formally address the concerns of Easterns and Orientals. What I do love about this place is that it gives our Latin brethren EXPOSURE to US, giving them the FULLNESS, the BREADTH, and the DEPTH of the Catholicity of the Church.

So when I find a few Latin Catholics here who are not aware of Eastern/Oriental Catholicism, and may come at us rather pointendly, I am only too glad to correct their misconceptions. If you can bear it, don’t look at Latin ignorance as an insult, but rather as an opportunity that God has given us to expose them to our Traditions. If you canNOT bear it, let others do so, while you take a rest to spiritually recuperate.

Finally, may I suggest that you go into the Apologetics Forum and post a poll to determine how many Latin Catholics are aware of Eastern/Oriental Catholicism, and how they feel about the idea of different, yet complementary theologies within the one Catholic Church. I would gather a majority of them are much more appreciative of our Traditions than the few you may have encountered who are more vociferous in their misconceptions.

I have personally offered invitations to the Latins there several times to participate here, and I have noticed a lot of new faces pop up here and there, expressing their interest in finding out more about the East/Orient. I think we as Eastern and Oriental Catholics perform a great service for the Church by demonstrating just how Catholic the Catholic Church is. I am of the opinion that you will only ever get to experience the Catholicity of the Church within the Catholic Church, and in no other apostolic Church. And if God can will use me as a bridge of understanding for even just a few, despite the trials I may face, then that is enough for me.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

I think what I am about to post may insult some people, and I ask for forgiveness right now. But I feel I really need to express it.

Contrary to popular belief, there is a lot of Mystery in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church, particularly the Latin Church, really has not made that many dogmatic pronouncements about the Faith. There is a LOT of theologoumenon in the Latin Church.

Having said that, here’s the part which I think may insult some individuals: I think some Easterns/Orientals who feel frustrated at some of the theologoumenon in the Latin Church are not being true to their heritage of apophatic spirituality and theology. I TOO often hear the argument: “Why doesn’t the Pope make that more clear? What use is the Pope if he can’t settle this issue?”

My response would be “Well, why should he?” It is so inconsistent and hypocritical to accuse the Catholic Church (especially the Latin Church) of too much dogmatism, and then turn around and argue that they need MORE dogma.

But I do sense often that some Eastern/Oriental Catholics go Orthodox because of their frustration with Western theologoumenon. For instance, I’ve heard EC’s complain of the idea of purgatorial fire, or the idea of guilt being passed on in original sin, or that Mary never died, etc, etc., etc. My viewpoint is that since I am not required to believe any of that, it really does not concern me, and thus it does not bother me. I have no business as an Oriental Catholic complaining about what goes on in the Western Church, as long as they don’t try to impose their beliefs on me. So why, I always wonder, do I TOO often hear Eastern and Oriental Catholics want to impose their own theologies and beliefs on the Westerns, to the point that if the Westerns don’t accept their points of view, then they run off to the Orthodox Church?

Since I was not born and bred Catholic, I have never really been exposed to the tensions between Latin, Eastern, and Oriental Catholics. In that light, I admit I may not really have a right to judge the feelings of my fellow Eastern/Oriental Catholics and their frustrations with the Western Catholics. But I do feel obligated to call my fellow Easterns and Orientals to consistency.

I would ask my fellow Easterns and Orientals to try to be more discerning between Latin theologoumena and the actual offical teachings of the Catholic Church.

Please note I am writing this with respect to theologoumena. I do recognize that there are Western dogmas that are a cause of genuine uneasiness and tension- though of course I believe these dogmas properly understood can be presented in a manner that is not incompatible with the Eastern or Oriental Traditions.

Humbly,
Marduk

 

[Isa_Almisry]

no you’re not I feel frustrated too and I’m not even in the Eastern Church I wish the Latin rite was more open to other cultures like the Eastern Church is I had to fight just to have my little Turkish medallion blessed by the priest I had people telling me it couldn’t be done and then not in my own parish but some people on here are completely opposed to me even speaking Turkish at mass so I can pray on the grounds that I might disturb someone else. Now my parish is huge because I go to a cathedral and I’m a good two or 3 feet away from the nearest pew so nobody can even hear me when I am speaking Turkish and it makes me mad that the Latin Church does not celebrate or even recognize the Turkish martyrs. I think the problem is that in the Roman Church we are not taught anything about the Eastern Church at all and that leads to a lot of misunderstandings like I don’t even understand why some of the Eastern churches are not in communion with the pope for instance. I wish somebody would explain that to me so I could have a better understanding of it. I just cannot bring myself to switch to a church that is not in communion with the pope I just can’t do it because I believe in the papacy. But I took to heart what the other poster said celebrate the things that are Latin there are good but yet also recognize and celebrate the beauty of the Eastern Church. That poster has inspired me to find online broadcasts of the divine liturgy so that when the new martyrs of the Turkish yoke are celebrated I can watch it and honor their sacrifice.

This is odd. Even the Greeks, Arabs etc. who HATE the Turks celebrate the Turkish martyrs and saints, and have no problem with the Gagauz Turkish Orthodox. I’ve known several Greek Orthodox in the US who learned Turkish, and not out of the sense of duty that I did (I haven’t gotten it all down yet) What’s up in the Latin church?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I realize this is not the case for everyone. Some people in Eastern Catholic Churches can make the move to Orthodoxy and be very comfortable in doing so. I also feel this temptation from time to time (the temptation seems particularly strong on Sunday mornings when I am confronted with the fact that the Melkite parish is significantly farther away than the Antiochian Orthodox one! ). But I know that for me Orthodoxy is not a solution. Not only because no Church is perfect (though this is true – they all have their fights and scandals and problems to wrestle with), but even more because even as an Orthodox Christian I would still be caught in the middle. One would still be faced with a sense of longing and a sense of pain. Now we long for reunion with those who are admittedly our very near kin: Antioch. We long to see the Apostolic Church of Antioch be the vibrant and whole reality that it is capable of being. Should we leave communion with Rome, though, we will find ourselves longing, with a very similar sense of pain, for communion with our sister Church in Rome. To be Melkite is to be caught in this middle. This in fact was how the Melkite Church was born. Constantinople could not understand our longing for communion with our sister in Rome, was threatened and angered by it.

Following up on that thought, I would say that the communion of Catholic Churches appreciates that middle much better than Orthodoxy does at the moment. The uniqueness of our Churches is confirmed. There is a recognition that we have sacrificed something to be in communion with Rome. It is permissible and even a good that we long for communion with our family, that we feel close to them.

Within Orthodoxy there is an acknowledgement of the importance of Rome, but I think time and history have convinced the Orthodox that for now than get by without Rome. There is no urgency to the pain. There is even some suspicion of those who do express the desire for unity (and one need only think of the beating that the Ecumenical Patriarch regularly takes, especially from Moscow, for being a Papal stooge).

To be Melkite is to be in the middle. The Body of Christ is torn and broken, and we are the ones who mark the place where those wounds exist. For now this is what our Church does.

Finally, I would just say that the Latins you meet on a forum like this are not the typical person in the pew, nor are they very representative of the people in Rome who have made the East their lifelong concern. Quite honestly we have never been more respected by the Latin Church than we have been since Vatican2. Of course Rome is learning and still trying to figure out how deal with the non-Latin world…to find its place in the Body of Christ. And, the people in the pews barely even know we exist. Do not the occasional rabid and nostalgic Latin should not discourage you or even really bother you. (And when they do, remember that there are plenty of rabid and nostalgic Orthodox out there as well). The typical Roman Catholic you meet, as you probably well know, is much more curious than anything else to find out what it is we do and believe.

Salaam al-Maseeh.

On the other side of Antioch, I have to say we often feel like saying to both Old and New Rome “a pox on both your houses.”

 

[Aydan]

well I could be wrong on this one because I’ve been in the church such a short time but in the five years I’ve been at my parish I’ve never even heard the Turkish martyrs acknowledged at all. I didn’t even find out about them until I joined this forum. So I don’t know if this can be generalized to all Latin rite churches. I certainly wish my parish would acknowledge them.

This is odd. Even the Greeks, Arabs etc. who HATE the Turks celebrate the Turkish martyrs and saints, and have no problem with the Gagauz Turkish Orthodox. I’ve known several Greek Orthodox in the US who learned Turkish, and not out of the sense of duty that I did (I haven’t gotten it all down yet) What’s up in the Latin church?

 

[Ghosty]

well I could be wrong on this one because I’ve been in the church such a short time but in the five years I’ve been at my parish I’ve never even heard the Turkish martyrs acknowledged at all. I didn’t even find out about them until I joined this forum. So I don’t know if this can be generalized to all Latin rite churches. I certainly wish my parish would acknowledge them.

Which Turkish martyrs are you speaking of? The ones who died a year ago? I don’t think there’s a “black-out” on them in the Latin Church, but there have certainly been many other martyrs over the last year, especially the Catholics in Iraq. It could just be a case of them being lost in the torrent of martyrdoms we’ve been seeing lately.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Aydan]

Which Turkish martyrs are you speaking of?

I am referring to any and all of them. I just want the Latin Church to recognize them as the other churches recognize the feast day of the new martyrs of the Turkish yoke I don’t understand why the Latin rite doesn’t.

 

[Ghosty]

I am referring to any and all of them. I just want the Latin Church to recognize them as the other churches recognize the feast day of the new martyrs of the Turkish yoke I don’t understand why the Latin rite doesn’t.

Well, there’s a difference if it’s a recent event versus an old one. The Latin Church doesn’t add feast days in a years time, nor even officially recognize its own as martyrs in such a short period.

If it’s the ones from a year ago, they would need even further investigation since they were neither Catholic nor Orthodox, IIRC, so any movement to have them officially recognized would take quite some time.

The Latin Church is huge, so there are a LOT of causes to investigate. There’s nothing wrong with private veneration in the mean time, or even starting a movement for the cause of the beatification of the martyrs you’re speaking of (movements for recognition generally always begin at “the bottom”, and are not initiated from the top).

Peace and God bless!

 

[Aydan]

yeah I understand that. Yes I do pprivate veneration that’s why I asked for online broadcast of Eastern Churchs and as you can see from my signature I’ve chosen a Turkish Saint like the poster suggested I’m retaining all good things Latin but I’m also recognizing the beauty of the Eastern churches as well.

Well, there’s a difference if it’s a recent event versus an old one. The Latin Church doesn’t add feast days in a years time, nor even officially recognize its own as martyrs in such a short period.

If it’s the ones from a year ago, they would need even further investigation since they were neither Catholic nor Orthodox, IIRC, so any movement to have them officially recognized would take quite some time.

The Latin Church is huge, so there are a LOT of causes to investigate. There’s nothing wrong with private veneration in the mean time, or even starting a movement for the cause of the beatification of the martyrs you’re speaking of (movements for recognition generally always begin at “the bottom”, and are not initiated from the top).

Peace and God bless!

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I am referring to any and all of them. I just want the Latin Church to recognize them as the other churches recognize the feast day of the new martyrs of the Turkish yoke I don’t understand why the Latin rite doesn’t.

They are in there on All Saints Day… Other than that, folks who died martyrs in FULL communion with the Holy See don’t all even make the Universal Latin Calendar.

The Orthodox do not celebrate a feast of the Latin XX century martyrs, I am not sure why we would expect that the Latin Church would commemorate non-Catholics with a special feast in the Universal Calendar…

 

[Peter_J]

Chris being on “Catholic Answers Forums” makes me want to follow you into the fullness of the Orthodox Faith.

If I might drop my :twocents: into the pond, one thing that has frustrated me lately is Catholic posters (on the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum, not that it really makes a difference) saying that the Catholic Church is “made up of 22 rites”. It’s been happening fairly often. (Plus, even though I corrected those particular posters, you also have to realize that I don’t read every thread on the NCRF, so I don’t know how many more occasions of this are out there.)

 

[ASimpleSinner]

This is odd. Even the Greeks, Arabs etc. who HATE the Turks celebrate the Turkish martyrs and saints, and have no problem with the Gagauz Turkish Orthodox. I’ve known several Greek Orthodox in the US who learned Turkish, and not out of the sense of duty that I did (I haven’t gotten it all down yet) What’s up in the Latin church?

What do you mean, what’s up? Do the Orthodox commemorate post-schism Catholic martyrs?

 

[wynd]

What do you mean, what’s up? Do the Orthodox commemorate post-schism Catholic martyrs?

The Orthodox do not celebrate a feast of the Latin XX century martyrs, I am not sure why we would expect that the Latin Church would commemorate non-Catholics with a special feast in the Universal Calendar…

Probably because there is no relatively late-coming Latin counterpart to the RCC in Orthodoxy like there is for the various Orthodox churches in the Catholic communion.

 

[Aydan]

let me be clear the real point I’m trying to make here is not about the Turkish martyrs because I know I’m probably the only Catholic in my entire diocese is not the whole state who worries about Turkish stuff. Am I saying they should change for me? Of course not all and saying is I wish the Latin Church with more accepting of cultural differences like the Eastern churches are I did not mean to get us sidetracked on the Turkish thing really it’s just my own personal preference and like the poster said I need to take care of it privately I should not drag my entire community into it.I like the beauty of the Maronite church because it respects cultural traditions and that’s what I was trying to say with the whole Turkish martyr argument I failed miserably. Sorry for getting off point

Probably because there is no relatively late-coming Latin counterpart to the RCC in Orthodoxy like there is for the various Orthodox churches in the Catholic communion.