On the Fewness of the Saved

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St. Faustina.

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One day, I saw two roads. One was broad, covered with sand and flowers, full of joy, music and all sorts of pleasures. People walked along it, dancing and enjoying themselves. They reached the end without realizing it. And at the end of the road there was a horrible precipice; that is, the abyss of hell. The souls fell blindly into it; as they walked, so they fell. And their number was so great that it was impossible to count them. And I saw the other road, or rather, a path, for it was narrow and strewn with thorns and rocks; and the people who walked along it had tears in their eyes, and all kinds of suffering befell them. Some fell down upon the rocks, but stood up immediately and went on. At the end of the road there was a magnificent garden filled with all sorts of happiness, and all these souls entered there. At the very first instant they forgot all their sufferings.
 
porthos11 said:
People can quote a bazillion Saints until they are green in the face, but until I see one of Magisterial authority, they’re just pious opinions, and yes, contrary to some of the previous posts, Saints’ quotes do not Church teaching make.
The truth is, the Church does not require us to hold on to an absolutist view of the number of the saved or the damned on the basis of the “narrow gate” passage. I for one, do not underestimate God’s ability or generosity to offer efficacious grace to mankind any more than I underestimate man’s ability to refuse grace.

I for one, do not find it reasonable to assume that the kingdom of almighty God should be outnumbered by the kingdom of Satan. Since he desires the salvation of all, would it then be reasonable to assume that despite this desire, he would lose the majority of man? Sure, man is free, but God also knows how man freely responds to grace. Since the order of grace is God’s sole prerogative, why would he ordain only a minority of men to salvation? God is not so sloppy.

Keep holding on to dismal stats if you will, since the Church permits you to do so. But the opposing opinion is permissible as well.

Ultimately, the number of the predestined and the reprobate are both unknown to man.
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Thank you for posting this.
I agree.
Such discussions are pointless.
Catholicism is not some kind of episode of “Scared Straight”!
 
I don’t think I’ll make it, that reading is scary.

Not because I doubt God’s mercy, I believe He is merciful.
But because I’m scared of God’s justice. So since I’m not perfect, game over.
 
BobCatholic said:
I don’t think I’ll make it, that reading is scary.

Not because I doubt God’s mercy, I believe He is merciful.
But because I’m scared of God’s justice. So since I’m not perfect, game over.
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Hi Bob. Souls are not damned for imperfection; they are damned if, and only if, they die in mortal sin.

“Write, my Benigna, Apostle of my Mercy, write this: The principal thing I desire to make known is that I am all Love; the greatest pain souls can give Me is to doubt My goodness. Not only does My Heart feel compassion, but It rejoices when there is much to repair, provided souls have no malice. If thou couldst know how powerfully I would operate in a soul, even filled with miseries, if she would let Me! Love has need of nothing, but it must find no resistance. Often all that is required of a soul to render it holy, is to let Me act. Imperfections cannot displease Me, unless the soul loves them. She should use them as so many steps of the ladder to mount to Me by means of humility, confidence and love; I descend to the soul that humbles herself, and go to seek her in her nothingness to unite Myself to her.”
  • Jesus to Sr. Benigna Consolata
If St. Leonard’s sermon leads you to the inference that almost all souls die in mortal sin, then you would be mistaken. The number of baptised infants alone who die before the age of reason is greater than the numbers mentioned by St. Leonard. Remember: St. Leonard was trying to shock hardened sinners into repentance. He intentionally presented a very restrictive view on salvation; it is not necessarily the right one. St. Mechtilde, for example, believed that Our Lord told her that the majority of Catholics would be saved.

Not a day goes by in which God does not draw a number of hardened, ungrateful sinners from the depths of their sin. Try to reflect on all the mercies that God has given His Church. I assure you that in doing so, your confidence will be increased.

Furthermore, spend some time reading the writings of the mercy “Saints.” Make an MS Word doc., or take notes of the many encouraging things that they have written down. This will do you a world of good.

Some texts worth perusing:
  1. ‘The Way of Divine Love’ by Sr. Josefa Menendez: archive.org/details/TheWayOfDivineLove
  2. ‘The Tednernesses of the Love of Jesus for a Little Soul’ (a biography of Sr. Benigna Consolata):
    archive.org/stream/sisterbenignacon00como/sisterbenignacon00como_djvu.txt
  3. ‘Jesus Appeals to the World’ by Fr. Lorenzo Sales (includes the revelations of Sr. Consolata Betrone)
  4. ‘Words of Love’ by Fr. Bartholomew Gottemoller
  5. And if you can find it, ‘Divine Communications’ by Rev. Auguste Saudreau (vol. I and II). This is my personal favourite, but it is very hard to come by, and it ain’t cheap! Still, it is worth every cent.
 
littlestsouls2 said:
Hi Bob. Souls are not damned for imperfection; they are damned if, and only if, they die in mortal sin.
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God’s grace is fragile, and easily broken. Someone can be in mortal sin and think they’re in the state of grace.

God gives us grace, we lose it easily, why? We’re imperfect.

That’s why few are saved.

They spill the cup of grace and don’t know that it is empty. Imperfections are evil.

God’s mercy seems to only be for spiritual things, not temporal things as I have horrible luck in my life.
 
BobCatholic said:
  1. God’s grace is fragile, and easily broken. Someone can be in mortal sin and think they’re in the state of grace.
  2. God gives us grace, we lose it easily, why? We’re imperfect.
That’s why few are saved.

They spill the cup of grace and don’t know that it is empty. Imperfections are evil.
  1. God’s mercy seems to only be for spiritual things, not temporal things as I have horrible luck in my life.
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  1. True. But souls of good-will need not fear. According to St. Gertrude, St. Alphonsus, St. Francis de Sales and others, we have a moral certainty of being in God’s grace if we are ever ready to do His will. Jesus is in the Sacraments to fortify our good-will.
  2. God has given us prayer and the Sacraments to fight our imperfections.
  3. “… if you will give up the forethought for yourself, My Providence will take good care of you, because above all things I love abandonment and dependence in the hearts that are Mine; I enjoy working miracles for them and in their favour; I provide them with everything, like a town that is My abode.”
  • Jesus to Sr. Jeanne Benigne Gojos
amazon.com/Abandonment-Abbot-Vitalis-Lehodey-O-C-R/dp/0895557592/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1447562350&sr=8-2&keywords=lehodey
 
Thank you for sharing these quotes, they are very interesting. It is a sad but very true fact that few are saved, but that is just all the more reason for us to pray for the conversion of sinners and evangelize.
 
I remember hearing once that “few will be saved” because, for the Father, even losing one child is having too few saved…
 
For any who have the misfortune to read this nonsense, this sermon has been debunked many times on CAF as pure hear-say. Every so often, this unfortunate listing appears in our forums, sorry to say.

Note that St. Leonard of Port Maurice is merely repeating a story from St. Vincent Ferrer, who speaks about a deacon who "claims" that he had a vision from St. Bernard who appeared to him. All of this is unsubstantiated, and the Church has never given any credence to this private vision as being authentic. In repeating a so-called private revelation (which is not required for belief) it seems that St. Leonard and St. Vincent did not exercise prudence in their discernment of spirits.
St. Leonard:
Saint Vincent Ferrer will show you what you may think about it. He relates that an archdeacon in Lyons gave up his charge and retreated into a desert place to do penance, and that he died the same day and hour as Saint Bernard. After his death, he appeared to his bishop and said to him, “*Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, **thirty-three thousand ***people also died. Out of this number, **Bernard and myself **went up to heaven without delay, **three **went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell.”
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It is mean-spiritedness to quote a multitude of saints’ sayings to scare the beejeebies out of everyone and destroy their hope in God’s mercy — it is not the Church’s manner of evangelization.

For certain, the majority of saints quoted here lived centuries ago, and their words are said to be simply “opinion” … NOT the teaching of the Church. Although they are saints and spoke this *opinion *during their lifetime, it does not automatically validate their words as infallible after their death. For as many who uttered statements of certain gloom and doom, we can show many who taught the mercy of God, *especially *St. Faustina whom God raised up with the special vocation to reveal to mankind that it is God’s desire for all to trust in His infinite mercy. Pope SAINT John Paul II, under divine inspiration after consideration of her writings, proclaimed the Sunday after Easter as Divine Mercy Sunday and proclaimed a plenary indulgence for that day.
 
And here are the words of another saint and Doctor of the Church:

God has raised up St. Therese not only to teach us her Little Way, but also to help us know more fully God’s infinite love and mercy. In proclaiming her Doctor of the Church, the Church validates her beautiful teachings and gives us light and assurance that when we follow them, we are not in error. I share this excerpt from her teaching on Purgatory.

God is Father rather than Judge

Once St. Therese had a confrontation regarding this topic with Sr. Marie Febronia, who not only was sixty-seven years old but also was sub-prioress. She had heard that St. Therese encouraged the novices to believe that they could go straight to heaven. She did not like this as she considered this kind of confidence presumptuous, and thus she reproached St Therese. St Therese tried lovingly and calmly to explain to Sr. Febronia her point of view but with no success as Sr. Febronia clung to belief. For St. Therese God was more Father than Judge, and she took the liberty of finally responding, “My sister, if you look for the justice of God you will get it. The soul will receive from God exactly what she desires.”

The year had not passed when, in January 1892, Sr. M. Febronia together with other sisters fell prey to the flu and died. Three months later Sr. Therese had a dream which she related to her Mother Prioress and which was then documented: "O my Mother, my Sr. M Febronia came to me last night and asked that we should pray for her. She is in Purgatory, ***surely ***because she had trusted too little in the mercy of the good Lord. Through her imploring behavior and her profound looks, it seemed she wanted to say, You were right. I am now delivered up to the full justice of God but it is my fault. If I had listened to you I would not be here now.
 
And one more wonderful blessing that delivers faithful souls from purgatory.

Holy Mother Church grants a plenary indulgence for any Catholic in danger of death. No 28 of the Enchridion of Indulgences states:
To the faithful in danger of death, who cannot be assisted by a priest to bring them the sacraments and impart the Apostolic Blessing with its plenary indulgence, Holy Mother Church nevertheless grants a plenary indulgence to be acquired at the point of death, provided they are properly disposed and have been in the habit of reciting some prayers during their lifetime. The use of a crucifix or a cross to gain this indulgence is praiseworthy."

The condition: *‘provided they have been in the habit of reciting some prayers during their lifetime’ *supplies in such cases for the three usual conditions required for the gaining of a plenary indulgence." The plenary indulgence at the point of death can be acquired by the faithful, even if they have already obtained another plenary indulgence on the same day."
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Its always worth remembering this so that when we reach our final day, we may benefit from an incredible grace!

And last, but not least, a gazillion prayers ascend to Our Mother Mary daily, offered by countless holy souls, asking that she “pray for US SINNERS now and at the hour of our death.” Mary intercedes for the dying in response to these petitions, as our heavenly Advocate.
 
Another reason for hope, is revealed by St. Faustina in her Diary. Certainly, it is foolish to be presumptive, but we can be assured that there are far more who are “saved” than the doomsday prophets allege. God ALONE knows their number, and we ought not to speculate about this.

1698 l often attend upon the dying and through entreaties obtain for them trust in God’s mercy, and I implore God for an abundance of divine grace, which is always victorious.
God’s mercy “sometimes” touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illumined by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment, while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or of contrition, because souls [at that stage] no longer react to external things. Oh, how beyond comprehension is God’s mercy!
But-horror! – there are also souls who voluntarily and consciously reject and scorn this grace! Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment, so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God. But sometimes, the obduracy in souls is so great that consciously they choose hell; they [thus] make useless all the prayers that other souls offer to God for them and even the efforts of God Himself…
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
Thank you for sharing these quotes, they are very interesting. It is a sad but very true fact that few are saved, but that is just all the more reason for us to pray for the conversion of sinners and evangelize.
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We do not know that it is a fact. All of this is pious speculation.
We do know that God intends for all of us to with Him in heaven.
We must simply pray for THAT.
 
What we do know is
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

We also know
Revelation 4:9 After that I saw that there was a huge number, impossible for anyone to count, of people from every nation, race, tribe and language; they were standing in front of the throne and in front of the Lamb, dressed in white robes…

We know that love and mercy come from God, so we can be sure that God is far more loving and merciful than any of us.
 
sudy said:
What we do know is
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

We also know
Revelation 4:9 After that I saw that there was a huge number, impossible for anyone to count, of people from every nation, race, tribe and language; they were standing in front of the throne and in front of the Lamb, dressed in white robes…

We know that love and mercy come from God, so we can be sure that God is far more loving and merciful than any of us.
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😉
Ain’t THAT the truth!
 
pianistclare said:
We do not know that it is a fact. All of this is pious speculation.
We do know that God intends for all of us to with Him in heaven.
We must simply pray for THAT.
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I think the Scriptures, saints, and Doctors of the Church have made it pretty clear that there many who will be damned and few who will be saved. This can be seen just from viewing the world we live in now where natural law is completely disregarded by society and even many members of the Church, both clergy and laity.

If there is no salvation outside the Church, and barely anyone in the Church even practices the Faith, it is a long shot to say that the saved is nearly equal to or outnumbers the damned. We may not know this with absolute certainty, but we have nearly absolute certainty since it is in line with the Doctors of the Church.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
I think the Scriptures, saints, and Doctors of the Church have made it pretty clear that there many who will be damned and few who will be saved. This can be seen just from viewing the world we live in now where natural law is completely disregarded by society and even many members of the Church, both clergy and laity.

If there is no salvation outside the Church, and barely anyone in the Church even practices the Faith, it is a long shot to say that the saved is nearly equal to or outnumbers the damned. We may not know this with absolute certainty, but we have nearly absolute certainty since it is in line with the Doctors of the Church.
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You might want to explore the scriptures that speak repeatedly about God’s mercy.

&b=drbhttp://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=mercy = 434 times
&b=drbhttp://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=hope = 183 times
&b=drbhttp://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=trust+in+God = 120 times
&b=drbhttp://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=despair = 4 times :eek:

Thank God Pope Francis is not preaching hell and damnation to all of us. What a pathetic way that would be to evangelize. Your speculation may be true, but that is NOT the essence of the gospel, which means “good news.”
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
I think the Scriptures, saints, and Doctors of the Church have made it pretty clear that there many who will be damned and few who will be saved. This can be seen just from viewing the world we live in now where natural law is completely disregarded by society and even many members of the Church, both clergy and laity.

If there is no salvation outside the Church, and barely anyone in the Church even practices the Faith, it is a long shot to say that the saved is nearly equal to or outnumbers the damned. We may not know this with absolute certainty, but we have nearly absolute certainty since it is in line with the Doctors of the Church.
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ww.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means
 
Sirach2 said:
You might want to explore the scriptures that speak repeatedly about God’s mercy.

http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=mercy&b=drb = 434 times
http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=hope&b=drb = 183 times
http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=trust+in+God&b=drb = 120 times
http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?t=0&q=despair&b=drb = 4 times :eek:

Thank God Pope Francis is not preaching hell and damnation to all of us. What a pathetic way that would be to evangelize. Your speculation may be true, but that is NOT the essence of the gospel, which means “good news.”
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True, but Gods wrath and justice is mentioned quite a bit as well, imo, preaching hell and damnation is better for helping people avoid major sin.
 
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