On the Holy Trinity and on God Incarnate: for Muslim Woman

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eucharisted
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Eucharisted

Guest
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

that’s an interesting comment . So , God did not came here as human form of Jesus (p) but a human Jesus (p) became God ??? May be , in Trinity thread , u may explain it .
Said comment:
We believe Jesus is God Incarnate. Not God is Jesus Incarnate.
We believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. But we do not believe that God is Jesus Christ in the flesh. In other words, Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus: God is God. God cannot in Himself be Jesus because He dose not have a body. But when He assumed human nature, He took on a body, and the result of the union of the Divine Nature with the human nature in the Son of God is Jesus Christ. This is why we say Jesus is God Incarnate, and why we do not say God is Jesus Incarnate. The former is correct, the latter is blasphemy.

The reason the two natures (Divine and human) are united in the Son of God is because it is God the Son who assumed human nature. It was not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit, but the Son who assumed flesh. Each Person in the Trinity is God, but each Person is distinct in relaion to one another, so it was the Son who took on human nature and became man.

We say that God is triune: His oneness is a unity unlike anything we can imagine, but because He has revealed His life to us, we say God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Over the centuries, God has led us into deeper understanding of the Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each the one God, so we say “God the Father. God the Son. God the Holy Spirit.” But the the three Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are distinct from one another in their relation to each other:
  • the Father is the Source of the Godhood, He is the Father of the Son and the One from whom the Holy Spirit proceeds;
  • the Son is the Image of God, He is the Son of the Father and the One through whom the Holy Spirit proceeds;
  • the Holy Spirit is the Love of God, He is the Spirit of God and the One who proceeds from the Father and the Son
    Now, like I said, God is a unity unlike anything we can imagine, so it is impossible to fully understand Him. This is why we say God is a mystery. The Scriptures tell us God is Love, so when one ponders on the Holy Spirit, the mind tries to reconcile how God can be a Person, but the truth is that we just don’t know how it can be. (The best explanation I can come up is that the love of the Father for the Son - which is also the love of the Son for the Father, and is also the love of God for His creatures and creations, since God is love itself - is so real, given that God is reality itself, that the divine love is a Person, the third Person of the Holy Trinity: the Holy Spirit. But that is just my speculation).
“Why do you say ‘Image of God’?” Because He is God from God. He is the spitting image of the Father, and because the Father is the Source of the Godhood, we say the Father is God, and so, we say Jesus is the Image of God. But is just as correct to say Jesus is the Image of the Father, for two reasons: the Father is God (“God the Father”) and the three Persons, given the unity and oneness of God, are in each other, so the Father is in the Son, the Son is in the Father, and the Father and the Son is in the Holy Spirit. Hence, Jesus says whoever has seen the Son has seen the Father, because the Son is the Image of God, and since Jesus is the Son Incarnate, He is the Image of God in the flesh.

“Why do you say Jesus is ‘Son of God’?” Because the Father is the Source of the Godhood (as explained above) and because Jesus is the Messiah, the true ‘son of God’ as stated in Psalm. A king of Israel was called a son of God because he acted as a vicar or representative of God. Because Jesus is God Himself, He is the true King, the Messiah: He is not just a representaive of God but is in fact the Revelation of God (and because He is the Revelation of God, He is the Word of God, which is why Saint John says He is the Word who from eternity was with God and was God). So the term “Son of God” is a play on words.

“If Jesus is the Image of God in the flesh, than was His humanity divine?” No, Jesus’ divinity was not human nor was His humanity. But when He was risen from the dead, He became a spiritual man, that is, His humanity became spiritualized, taking on the properties of the soul which every man shall take on at the resurrection of the dead: immortality, glory (or light), and power. Hence, His humanity cannot die, it shines with the glory of God, and it is not bound by space or time. It is because His humanity is united to the Divinity that He shines with God’s glory. Now, some would say “All power on Heaven and on Earth” means that Jesus has been given the power to transport Himself from Heaven to Earth or vica-versa, but it actually means Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords: He is God, and, after the Resurrection, His humanity became divinized or spiritualized. In light of His death on the Cross, He has earned His Kingship, He is now the King and Judge of mankind, who reigns in all the hearts of the just and who will judge all men on the last day (note to Muslim Woman: this is going a bit deep in Catholic theology, so don’t worry if you don’t understand).

“If Jesus is the Image of God, than did His humanity resemble God?” Yes, in the flesh Jesus did resemble God, because God fashioned His body, blood, and soul in the womb of Mary. If God had not fashioned His humanity, than Jesus could not resembled God in His humanity, because only when the Divinity and the humanity were united did God stamp His Image into the human nature of Jesus, so that it took on the Image and Likeness of God.

I hope this helps you, Muslim Woman! 🙂
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace
…, Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus: God is God.
thanks for the explanation. I saved it , InshaAllah will read it offline. Just curious , do all Christians agree with this concept ?
 
Said comment:

We believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. But we do not believe that God is Jesus Christ in the flesh. In other words, Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus: God is God. God cannot in Himself be Jesus because He dose not have a body. But when He assumed human nature, He took on a body, and the result of the union of the Divine Nature with the human nature in the Son of God is Jesus Christ. This is why we say Jesus is God Incarnate, and why we do not say God is Jesus Incarnate. The former is correct, the latter is blasphemy.

The reason the two natures (Divine and human) are united in the Son of God is because it is God the Son who assumed human nature. It was not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit, but the Son who assumed flesh. Each Person in the Trinity is God, but each Person is distinct in relaion to one another, so it was the Son who took on human nature and became man.

We say that God is triune: His oneness is a unity unlike anything we can imagine, but because He has revealed His life to us, we say God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Over the centuries, God has led us into deeper understanding of the Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each the one God, so we say “God the Father. God the Son. God the Holy Spirit.” But the the three Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are distinct from one another in their relation to each other:
  • the Father is the Source of the Godhood, He is the Father of the Son and the One from whom the Holy Spirit proceeds;
  • the Son is the Image of God, He is the Son of the Father and the One through whom the Holy Spirit proceeds;
  • the Holy Spirit is the Love of God, He is the Spirit of God and the One who proceeds from the Father and the Son
    Now, like I said, God is a unity unlike anything we can imagine, so it is impossible to fully understand Him. This is why we say God is a mystery. The Scriptures tell us God is Love, so when one ponders on the Holy Spirit, the mind tries to reconcile how God can be a Person, but the truth is that we just don’t know how it can be. (The best explanation I can come up is that the love of the Father for the Son - which is also the love of the Son for the Father, and is also the love of God for His creatures and creations, since God is love itself - is so real, given that God is reality itself, that the divine love is a Person, the third Person of the Holy Trinity: the Holy Spirit. But that is just my speculation).
“Why do you say ‘Image of God’?” Because He is God from God. He is the spitting image of the Father, and because the Father is the Source of the Godhood, we say the Father is God, and so, we say Jesus is the Image of God. But is just as correct to say Jesus is the Image of the Father, for two reasons: the Father is God (“God the Father”) and the three Persons, given the unity and oneness of God, are in each other, so the Father is in the Son, the Son is in the Father, and the Father and the Son is in the Holy Spirit. Hence, Jesus says whoever has seen the Son has seen the Father, because the Son is the Image of God, and since Jesus is the Son Incarnate, He is the Image of God in the flesh.

“Why do you say Jesus is ‘Son of God’?” Because the Father is the Source of the Godhood (as explained above) and because Jesus is the Messiah, the true ‘son of God’ as stated in Psalm. A king of Israel was called a son of God because he acted as a vicar or representative of God. Because Jesus is God Himself, He is the true King, the Messiah: He is not just a representaive of God but is in fact the Revelation of God (and because He is the Revelation of God, He is the Word of God, which is why Saint John says He is the Word who from eternity was with God and was God). So the term “Son of God” is a play on words.

“If Jesus is the Image of God in the flesh, than was His humanity divine?” No, Jesus’ divinity was not human nor was His humanity. But when He was risen from the dead, He became a spiritual man, that is, His humanity became spiritualized, taking on the properties of the soul which every man shall take on at the resurrection of the dead: immortality, glory (or light), and power. Hence, His humanity cannot die, it shines with the glory of God, and it is not bound by space or time. It is because His humanity is united to the Divinity that He shines with God’s glory. Now, some would say “All power on Heaven and on Earth” means that Jesus has been given the power to transport Himself from Heaven to Earth or vica-versa, but it actually means Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords: He is God, and, after the Resurrection, His humanity became divinized or spiritualized. In light of His death on the Cross, He has earned His Kingship, He is now the King and Judge of mankind, who reigns in all the hearts of the just and who will judge all men on the last day (note to Muslim Woman: this is going a bit deep in Catholic theology, so don’t worry if you don’t understand).

“If Jesus is the Image of God, than did His humanity resemble God?” Yes, in the flesh Jesus did resemble God, because God fashioned His body, blood, and soul in the womb of Mary. If God had not fashioned His humanity, than Jesus could not resembled God in His humanity, because only when the Divinity and the humanity were united did God stamp His Image into the human nature of Jesus, so that it took on the Image and Likeness of God.

I hope this helps you, Muslim Woman! 🙂
Eucharisted that is probably one of the best jobs at explaining the Trinity I’ve ever read. Well done.
 
We believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.
You mean, “God the Son in the flesh”.
But we do not believe that God is Jesus Christ in the flesh.
You mean, “But we do not believe that God the Father is Jesus Christ.”
In other words, Jesus is God,
You mean, “Jesus is God the Son”
but God is not Jesus: God is God.
You mean, “but God the Father is not Jesus: God the Father is God the Father.”
God cannot in Himself be Jesus because He dose not have a body.
You mean, “God the Father cannot in Himself be Jesus because God the Father does not have a body.”
But when He assumed human nature, He took on a body, and the result of the union of the Divine Nature with the human nature in the Son of God is Jesus Christ.
You mean, “But when God the Son assumed human form, God the Son took on a body, and the result of the union of the Divine Nature of God the Son with the human nature is Jesus Christ.”
This is why we say Jesus is God Incarnate, and why we do not say God is Jesus Incarnate. The former is correct, the latter is blasphemy.
You mean, “This is why we say Jesus is God the Son Incarnate, and why we do not say that God the Father Incarnate is Jesus.”

Otherwise, great essay!
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

thanks for the explanation. I saved it , InshaAllah will read it offline. Just curious , do all Christians agree with this concept ?
All we ask is you read this with an open mind, and try not to think its impossible for God to do this.
No, im not being a smarty, i would love for you to understand the concept of the trinity as us Catholics do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top