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Continuation
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AS I MENTIONED ABOVE:
We are free to do everything (inside the borders of our free will) what God permits us to do and cooperating WITH us and IN us in our acts and He provides for us the operating power to act.
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Many Christian would be surprised if they would know, to go to Christ in order to be saved is NOT inside the borders of our free will.
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John 6:65; … no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.
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John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.
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I’M SURE, anyone who are not familiar with the Scripture and Catholic Soteriology, the first question would be to ask:
What is the reason that for us to go to Christ to save us is NOT INSIDE the borders of our free will?
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I have to admit, when I first realized the above Theological Fact, I was upset with God, I thought God is unjust because He doesn’t let us to go to Christ in order to be saved.
Later in my Bible study I learned, the reason is not, that God stops us on our way to Christ to save us, but we wouldn’t want to go to Christ, because if we are not yet born again, as the resuts spiritual things are foolishness to us.
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THIS IS THE REASON AS FOLLOWS WE CANNOT GO TO CHRIST FOR TO HAVE SALVATION.
1 Cor.2:14; The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
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Rom.8:7; Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
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AS WE SEE ABOVE, THE REASON IS:
At the day of the “fall” we are spiritually died for the spiritual realm, from the program of our memory all spiritual things wiped out, and the program of the memory of the natural world partly corrupted, but still functional.
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So, for us to say YES to God’s salvation FIRST we need a NEW PROGRAM IN OUR MEMORY.
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THIS IS AS FOLLOWS GOD’S NEW PROGRAM THAT HE PUTS INTO OUR MEMORY
CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church Simplified.
Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.
Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
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The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.
This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
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Continue
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AS I MENTIONED ABOVE:
We are free to do everything (inside the borders of our free will) what God permits us to do and cooperating WITH us and IN us in our acts and He provides for us the operating power to act.
.
.
Many Christian would be surprised if they would know, to go to Christ in order to be saved is NOT inside the borders of our free will.
.
John 6:65; … no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.
.
John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.
.
I’M SURE, anyone who are not familiar with the Scripture and Catholic Soteriology, the first question would be to ask:
What is the reason that for us to go to Christ to save us is NOT INSIDE the borders of our free will?
.
I have to admit, when I first realized the above Theological Fact, I was upset with God, I thought God is unjust because He doesn’t let us to go to Christ in order to be saved.
Later in my Bible study I learned, the reason is not, that God stops us on our way to Christ to save us, but we wouldn’t want to go to Christ, because if we are not yet born again, as the resuts spiritual things are foolishness to us.
.
.
THIS IS THE REASON AS FOLLOWS WE CANNOT GO TO CHRIST FOR TO HAVE SALVATION.
1 Cor.2:14; The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
.
Rom.8:7; Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
.
AS WE SEE ABOVE, THE REASON IS:
At the day of the “fall” we are spiritually died for the spiritual realm, from the program of our memory all spiritual things wiped out, and the program of the memory of the natural world partly corrupted, but still functional.
.
So, for us to say YES to God’s salvation FIRST we need a NEW PROGRAM IN OUR MEMORY.
.
.
THIS IS AS FOLLOWS GOD’S NEW PROGRAM THAT HE PUTS INTO OUR MEMORY
CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church Simplified.
Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.
Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.
This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
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Continue
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Continuation
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THE RESULTS OF GOD’S NEW PROGRAM IN OUR MEMORY
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Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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FOR EXAMPLE, GOD’S NEW PROGRAM INCLUDES:
Faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL etc. so, we all FREELY and HAPPILY say YES to God’s gift of salvation by God’s new program in our memory.
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COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
… We are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification.
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I believe God’s Justice, His Love and Mercy DEMANDS that He save everyone.
Our new God’s gift of program in our memory contains our free will, designed by God, it is also contains to say YES to God’s gift of our salvation. – Please see Acts 13:48.
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Would you wish Gorgias that God to save you and God to save everyone?
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Continue
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THE RESULTS OF GOD’S NEW PROGRAM IN OUR MEMORY
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Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
.
FOR EXAMPLE, GOD’S NEW PROGRAM INCLUDES:
Faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL etc. so, we all FREELY and HAPPILY say YES to God’s gift of salvation by God’s new program in our memory.
.
COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
… We are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification.
.
I believe God’s Justice, His Love and Mercy DEMANDS that He save everyone.
Our new God’s gift of program in our memory contains our free will, designed by God, it is also contains to say YES to God’s gift of our salvation. – Please see Acts 13:48.
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Would you wish Gorgias that God to save you and God to save everyone?
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Continue
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Continuation
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ONE ISSUE STILL WE NEED TO ADDRESS:
You said Gorgias:
If God wishes to honor the gift of free will, then He must allow us to choose and to receive the consequences of our choice. (If there are no consequences – that is, if every choice leads to the same consequence – then there is no free will, per se… just the appearance of free will.)
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THE ANSWER OF YOUR CONCERN:
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
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Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24). End quote.
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Our Eternal life (our cooperation with salvation related graces) Infallible Protected by God’s AIDE the Gift of Final Perseverance, without this AIDE of God we could do nothing to gain our salvation, in fact we all would end up in hell. – Formal teachings of the Catholic Church. + Infallible teachings of the Trent.
So, our entrance to heaven is absolutely sure.
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Phil.1:6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)
I am SURE that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. – I am SURE too.
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But our position and glory in heaven is up to us, depends on the way we cooperate with other kind of graces, such as actual grace.
Sometimes we chose to cooperate and sometimes we chose not to cooperate, it is up to us and this leads to our different positions and glory in heaven.
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Our call to Eternal Life has Infallible Protection, Heaven is God’s IRREVOCABLE free gift. – Rom.11:29; etc. + DE FIDE Dogma.
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Our position and glory in heaven depends on our cooperation with God’s other kind of graces, such as actual grace. – There are consequences of our free choices.
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SUMMARY
Our cooperation with salvation related graces are INFALLIBLE AIDED with God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance.
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Our cooperation with the rest of God’s different graces are UP TO OUR FREE WILL, but at the same time we should not forget, Faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL etc. are programed into our memory.
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God always honour His program He has planted into our memory, His program contains our limited free will as well, when we will be in heaven, we will have absolute free will, because our will, will be 100 % in line with God’s will.
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God bless you Gorgias and God bless every readers of the CAF.
Latin
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ONE ISSUE STILL WE NEED TO ADDRESS:
You said Gorgias:
If God wishes to honor the gift of free will, then He must allow us to choose and to receive the consequences of our choice. (If there are no consequences – that is, if every choice leads to the same consequence – then there is no free will, per se… just the appearance of free will.)
.
THE ANSWER OF YOUR CONCERN:
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
.
Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24). End quote.
.
Our Eternal life (our cooperation with salvation related graces) Infallible Protected by God’s AIDE the Gift of Final Perseverance, without this AIDE of God we could do nothing to gain our salvation, in fact we all would end up in hell. – Formal teachings of the Catholic Church. + Infallible teachings of the Trent.
So, our entrance to heaven is absolutely sure.
.
Phil.1:6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)
I am SURE that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. – I am SURE too.
.
But our position and glory in heaven is up to us, depends on the way we cooperate with other kind of graces, such as actual grace.
Sometimes we chose to cooperate and sometimes we chose not to cooperate, it is up to us and this leads to our different positions and glory in heaven.
.
Our call to Eternal Life has Infallible Protection, Heaven is God’s IRREVOCABLE free gift. – Rom.11:29; etc. + DE FIDE Dogma.
.
Our position and glory in heaven depends on our cooperation with God’s other kind of graces, such as actual grace. – There are consequences of our free choices.
.
SUMMARY
Our cooperation with salvation related graces are INFALLIBLE AIDED with God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance.
.
Our cooperation with the rest of God’s different graces are UP TO OUR FREE WILL, but at the same time we should not forget, Faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL etc. are programed into our memory.
.
God always honour His program He has planted into our memory, His program contains our limited free will as well, when we will be in heaven, we will have absolute free will, because our will, will be 100 % in line with God’s will.
.
God bless you Gorgias and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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Gorgias
Guest
God wishes all to come to Him. So, it’s not that He wants this one but not that one – it’s that God wishes all to freely choose Him.
It’s not that I ‘wish’ it; it’s that this is what the Church teaches.
Good. This is the real question. Now – without a three-post reply and multiple quotes, answer me a simple question, please. Just a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’: if God honors our free will, then does He honor our choice of loving Him or not loving Him?
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God bless you Gorgias and God bless every readers of the CAF.Latin:
God wishes all to come to Him. So, it’s not that He wants this one but not that one – it’s that God wishes all to freely choose Him.
It’s not that I ‘wish’ it; it’s that this is what the Church teaches.
Good. This is the real question. Now – without a three-post reply and multiple quotes, answer me a simple question, please. Just a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’: if God honors our free will, then does He honor our choice of loving Him or not loving Him?
Thank you for your post.
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The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a DE FIDE Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect.
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Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has
been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it
were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that
one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been
MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.
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(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,
follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the
predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be
UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to
CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of
certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience.
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THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita
THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):
Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.
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As you see above Gorgias, the only theologically correct answer to your question is:
Those whom God called to Eternal life, Predestined to heaven, never want to leave God and ‘yes’ God honors their free will.
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Also ‘yes’ every Initially Justified, called to Eternal life freely choose God.
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To call the entire human race to Eternal life is God’s duty and His responsibility, and God more then up to that task.
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So, our future is safe in God’s hands.
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God bless you Gorgias and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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Gorgias
Guest
Well… it wasn’t three posts, but it was a bunch of quotations from the CE… and it didn’t answer the question.Gorgias:
God bless you Gorgias and God bless every readers of the CAF.
OK, so… not what I asked.
And, again… not what I asked.
So, let me try again:
Does God honor all free will choices made by humans? Not just those choices made by those “predestined to heaven”… but all choices, made by all people?
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God bless you Gorgias and God bless every readers of the CAF.Latin:
Well… it wasn’t three posts, but it was a bunch of quotations from the CE… and it didn’t answer the question.Gorgias:
God bless you Gorgias and God bless every readers of the CAF.
OK, so… not what I asked.
And, again… not what I asked.
So, let me try again:
Does God honor all free will choices made by humans? Not just those choices made by those “predestined to heaven”… but all choices, made by all people?
Thank you for your post.
Your question as follows:
Does God honor all free will choices made by humans, … all choices, made by all people?
This is above really two questions.
First question:
Does God honor all free will choices made by humans?
Answer:
God does honor all free will choices made by humans.
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Second question:
Does God honor all choices, made by all people?
Answer:
Absolutely not. God honors only free will choices.
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To make clear the confusion:
Some people goes that far, they think: They have absolute free will and all their choices are free will choices, and God is their butler.
The truth is, probably most of our choices are not free will choices, because we have a limited free will and our choices are outside the border of our free will.
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God does not honor our choices which are outside the border of our free will.
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If we would have absolute free will, then all our choices would be inside the border of our free will.
In heaven we will have absolute free will because our will and God’s will, will be 100 % in line.
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God bless you Gorgias and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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