On the knees, On the tongue

[zab]

I also appreciate GwenL’s charitable post setting the record straight. It wouldn’t surprise me if some day we will be returning to the practice of kneeling for reception of Communion on the tongue. Much has been written about this lately and our Holy Father is leading the way. But until that time, we should not think that anyone who continues to receive Communion while standing is going against the Holy Father’s wishes.

 

[Glennonite]

I have to say that puzzleannie was not the only one who had a problem with your first post particularly your last sentence. Let me put it this way- if one were to attend Mass at St. Peter’s but were not lucky enough to be selected to receive Communion from our Holy Father, would they be among those " “just go along” with the congregation in a practice that is not in line with the Holy Father’s wishes" ? I think not. Perhaps you did not mean for it to come across the way that it did. But why do you respond in such a rude manner when someone questions what you have written?

I didn’t intend any rudeness. Can you help me with an example? Really; help me to see what came across poorly.

Thanks,

Glennonite

 

[MarkThompson]

I would offer one point of clarification. The Holy See did not actually delegate the authority to create norms. The local bishops conferences may request local adaptations to the Universal Norms, but the authority that actually establishes the norm remains that of Rome;in the form of the recognito.

This is not really correct. The authority to establish a norm for Communion posture was delegated to the Bishops’ Conferences in § 34(a) of Eucharisticum Mysterium (1967):
In accordance with the custom of the Church, Communion may be received by the faithful either kneeling or standing. One or the other way is to be chosen, according to the decision of the episcopal conference, bearing in mind all the circumstances, above all the number of the faithful and the arrangement of the churches. The faithful should willingly adopt the method indicated by their pastors, so that Communion may truly be a sign of the brotherly union of all those who share in the same table of the Lord.
As you can see – and contrary to the remark of Deo Gratias42 above – there is no “universal norm” regarding Communion posture, and therefore there is nothing which requires derogation from existing law or approval by Rome. If the Bishops’ Conference would like to have their choice literally written into the GIRM, or to establish other norms concerning things like gestures of reverence, then approval must be sought; but if they do not, then the underlying, universal GIRM ipso facto enforces their decision with respect to the posture: “Fideles communicant genuflexi vel stantes, prout Conferentia Episcoporum statuerit” (“The faithful communicate kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops shall have decreed”).

 

[Glennonite]

Its actually very simple; Pope Benedict himself has said that he personally has no problem with communion in the hand but has chose to distribute kneeling and on the tongue because 1) as pope, his wishes to teach reverence to the Blessed Sacrament and 2) to lessen the chance that people will keep the Host as a souvenir from a Mass with the pope.

Your reliance upon the* reasons* why the pope does what he does is to misstate his true intentions.

I didn’t know the Pope’s reasons; now I guess I do. But if the first of the reasons you give is true, then I think that it’s a fantastic example for all Catholics. Surely my concern of reverence for the Eucharist has been made clear in my posts. This is why I asked the question…to get answers.

I not following you in regards to your statement: “Your reliance upon the* reasons* why the pope does what he does is to misstate his true intentions.” I never claimed any knowledge of why the Pope only dispenses Communion to those who are kneeling. I presumed it was because it demonstrates reverence for God; a singularly mystical action unlike any other.

If a crumb should accidently fall from our hands, or be brushed unknowingly to the floor; is that not reason enough to receive on the tongue? My hands have not been consecreted like the priest’s; I don’t think they are worthy…

Glennonite

 

[GwenL]

I also appreciate GwenL’s charitable post setting the record straight. It wouldn’t surprise me if some day we will be returning to the practice of kneeling for reception of Communion on the tongue. Much has been written about this lately and our Holy Father is leading the way. But until that time, we should not think that anyone who continues to receive Communion while standing is going against the Holy Father’s wishes.

Well put. (the part about continuing to receive standing.)

The important thing is that you be properly disposed to receive communion. The posture is up to your personal piety, I think.

I teach Confirmation teenagers, and First Holy Communion teenagers. With the former, I discuss all three methods of receiving–COTT standing, COTT kneeling, CITH standing. I urge them to pray to find the appropriate method for themselves, and to discuss with their parents, and to try each method. I tell them that all three are acceptable in the U.S. and they shouldn’t feel “looked down upon” for choosing any of the three. For the First Holy Communion group, I teach the same philosophy but we require COTT and kneeling for First Holy Communion. (We have an awesome rector.)

 

[GwenL]

I didn’t know the Pope’s reasons; now I guess I do. But if the first of the reasons you give is true, then I think that it’s a fantastic example for all Catholics. Surely my concern of reverence for the Eucharist has been made clear in my posts. This is why I asked the question…to get answers.

I not following you in regards to your statement: “Your reliance upon the* reasons* why the pope does what he does is to misstate his true intentions.” I never claimed any knowledge of why the Pope only dispenses Communion to those who are kneeling. I presumed it was because it demonstrates reverence for God; a singularly mystical action unlike any other.

If a crumb should accidently fall from our hands, or be brushed unknowingly to the floor; is that not reason enough to receive on the tongue? My hands have not been consecreted like the priest’s; I don’t think they are worthy…

Glennonite

You should read Pope Benedict’s book, “The Light of the World.” It’s an incredible question-and-answer session. He talks about CITH, COTT, and why he only gives communion to those communicants kneeling and on the tongue. I lent my book out so can’t quote chapter, but the entire book is worth your time. We are so blessed to have him as our shepherd.

Like you, I am inspired by his example of reverence of the Eucharist.

I think the point about “consecrated hands” is a bit of a distractor. Deacons’ hands aren’t consecrated, and I’ve never heard of anybody worried about receiving from a deacon. I’m told that Eastern Catholic priests do not have their hands consecrated at ordination. I’m also told that the consecration of Latin Rite priests’ hands is for the confection of the Eucharist, not for the distribution of Holy Communion. Finally, I think that most priests would also say “I am not worthy of this.” Who really is worthy to handle the body of Christ? His blessed mother, certainly, but none of us!

On things like this, I’m of a mind to just follow Holy Mother Church. For us in the U.S., she allows COTT, CITH, standing, kneeling. Choose what is best for you and let others do the same. Encourage by witness and not by browbeating (not directed at OP, but this forum is full of that at times)

 

[TrueLight]

I went to a very reverent OF yesterday out of curiosity for the new translation.

Whenever, I go to a parish that is not my own, I watch how people receive. I noticed about 95% received standing, and in the hand and from what I could see from the back, a few appeared to receive on the tongue.

So I stood in line and saw someone a little ahead of me who normally attends the EF.

What he did was genuflect when the person ahead was receiving and then he received on the tongue.

So I copy-catted him.

I do have to say the priest was not careful in putting the host in my mouth as my mouth got slammed a little.

There are kneelers because he celebrates the EF in an earlier service, but he was standing way in front of them. For me to have just knelt on the floor would have been awkward.

 

[Glennonite]

You should read Pope Benedict’s book, “The Light of the World.” It’s an incredible question-and-answer session. He talks about CITH, COTT, and why he only gives communion to those communicants kneeling and on the tongue. I lent my book out so can’t quote chapter, but the entire book is worth your time. We are so blessed to have him as our shepherd.

Like you, I am inspired by his example of reverence of the Eucharist.

I think the point about “consecrated hands” is a bit of a distractor. Deacons’ hands aren’t consecrated, and I’ve never heard of anybody worried about receiving from a deacon. I’m told that Eastern Catholic priests do not have their hands consecrated at ordination. I’m also told that the consecration of Latin Rite priests’ hands is for the confection of the Eucharist, not for the distribution of Holy Communion. Finally, I think that most priests would also say “I am not worthy of this.” Who really is worthy to handle the body of Christ? His blessed mother, certainly, but none of us!

On things like this, I’m of a mind to just follow Holy Mother Church. For us in the U.S., she allows COTT, CITH, standing, kneeling. Choose what is best for you and let others do the same. Encourage by witness and not by browbeating (not directed at OP, but this forum is full of that at times)

Thanks for the tip on The Light of the World; I’m eager to read it.

Glennonite

 

[andrewstx]

I for one do not pray for altar rails to be restored to use.

You see I had a cerebro-vascular accident, a stroke at the ripe old age of 47, and even if I could kneel. I would never be able to get back up.

As for communion on the tounge I always recieved that way until I lost all my upper teeth!
So embbaresing.

Maybe it’s time for me to learn humility!

BTW I’m a NM native to moved just over the TX border now.

 

[CatholicFireman]

In the late 60s I received at the alter rail then the switch occurred. Nowadays I receive as you and the person in front of of you received, TrueLight (I get all kinds of awkward Host placements). My daughter, who went to a very traditional Catholic High School, kneels on the floor when receiving. My wife, who converted, receives on the hand.

Quite the variety in my family.

 

[Ubenedictus]

If you really want to follow the Pope, then I suggest adhering to the norms legitimately established by your conference of Bishops rather than defying them.

If you do not want to cause a problem, rethink receiving kneeling. The norm is standing.

On the tongue is not an issue.

I suggest obeying your bishop.

But if you insist on not doing so, perhaps discussing your decision with your priest ahead of time would be helpful. I think issues arise when something unexpected happens in the spur of the moment (i.e. you just up and kneeling down on Sunday).

this is where you are mistaken.

You are not in line with the Holy Father’s wishes. He has made it clear this is for HIS massees only. He is NOT abbrogating the legitimate mandates of the various bishop’s conferences nor is he attempting to contravene the norms established through the GIRM. He is exercising his legitimate authority at the masses he personally celebrates.

The bishops still maintain legitimate authority in their territories. You need to respect that.

Unfortunately, no.

But I urge you to reconsider it.

please this post is misleading and does not represet catholic pratice Communion kneel and on the tongue is legit and allowed according to the GIRM and rubric. It is neither defy the bishop conference or any established norm. The norm is kneeling OR standing (personal choice). Kneeling is not an act of disobedience to bishop or conference. COTH is not allowed in some countries 'cos of the risk of profanation, what happens if a crumb of the sacred specie unknowingly remain in your hands. The recent popes Johnpaul 11 and Benedict encourage on the tongue and kneeling the fact that standing is allowed does not make it the best. The worship due to God (latria) is due to the eucharist(de fide), men prostrated before angles, Africans greet their parents prostrating. If Christ is here physically is a bow the better act of reverence?
Peace

 

[anp1215]

I for one do not pray for altar rails to be restored to use.

You see I had a cerebro-vascular accident, a stroke at the ripe old age of 47, and even if I could kneel. I would never be able to get back up.

As for communion on the tounge I always recieved that way until I lost all my upper teeth!
So embbaresing.

Maybe it’s time for me to learn humility!

BTW I’m a NM native to moved just over the TX border now.

welcome to tx!!!

 

[Ubenedictus]

Many of those who completely deny the Real Presence do not even stand to receive. Their memorial bread and wine/juice/water are often passed out on little platters at their seats. Those who do believe in the Real Presence in some form often do, in fact, kneel before receiving their communion.

What, then, does that say about those Protestants who do believe in the Real Presence of Christ in their communion, and who do kneel to receive?

Yes, she is a forum elder. Of course, her number of posts and length of membership (what the status denotes) have nothing to do with the conversation.

Kneeling before the Lord is, indeed, a very good thing! That is, it is if your reasoning for doing so is to show reverence to the Lord and not to show others that you are better/more reverent/more faithful/more whatever than those who choose (licitly) to stand and receive. As others have said, standing to receive the Lord is an ancient Catholic practice, and not some recent “protestantized” innovation. Both standing to receive and kneeling to receive are acceptable. If it is spiritually beneficial to you to receive kneeling, then please discuss your desire with your priest, so that he can at least be made aware before you approach.
On the issue of obedience to one’s bishop-- have you ever read the story of Saint Pio? Padre Pio, at one point in his ministry, had been unjustly stripped of all his faculties except for the faculty to celebrate Mass, which he was ordered to do in private only. He was forbidden to pray the Mass in public, could not hear confessions, and could in no other manner act as a priest. He knew it was unjust, others knew it was unjust, but until his bishop realized it was unjust, Padre Pio OBEYED. How humbling that must have been for him to know that he had done nothing wrong, but still followed the order of his bishop to cease nearly all priestly activity. Obedience to one’s lawful superior is a great virtue.

Redemptionis sacramentus § 91 imply that the eucharist is licitly administered regardless conferences’ prefered posture thus the conferences’ PREFERED POSTURE is in fact a PREFERED POSTURE and not morally binding on all within the teritory and so does mean comm. on the tongue and kneeling is not disobedience. Beside i hear the conference decision allow COTT and kneeling for those who wish. Canon 214 make the practice legit, right to personal spirituality in as much as it does not contradict the magisterium. The canon i think, is the way i once heard cad. Arinze explain the possibility and legitimacy of personally practicing these acts of reverence during comnunion. Hope I helped.
Peace

 

[Brendan]

This is not really correct. The authority to establish a norm for Communion posture was delegated to the Bishops’ Conferences in § 34(a) of Eucharisticum Mysterium (1967):

Mark,

It is by the recognito that any local adaptations gain the force of law

Congregation de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum

Prot. n. 47 / 03 / L

Rome, 26 February 2003

Dear [name deleted],

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has received through official channels your letter dated 1 December 2002, related to the application of the norms approved by the Conference of Bishops of the United States of America, with the subsequent recognitio of this Congregation, as regards the question of the posture for receiving Holy Communion.

**As the authority by virtue of whose recognitio the norm in question has attained the force of law, this Dicastery is competent to specify the manner in which the norm is to be understood **for the sake of a proper application. Having received more than a few letters regarding this matter from different locations in the United States of America, the Congregation wishes to ensure that its position on the matter is clear.

Note the responsum from the CDWDS regarding the previous US norm.

I believe that my statement still stands, the authority by which the norms gain the force of law was not delegated. The bishops may certainly vote on local norms, but such a norm has no standing (no pun ) until the recognitio is obtained. And even then, competency to specifiy how the norm is to be understood.

 

[Ubenedictus]

You should read Pope Benedict’s book, “The Light of the World.” It’s an incredible question-and-answer session. He talks about CITH, COTT, and why he only gives communion to those communicants kneeling and on the tongue. I lent my book out so can’t quote chapter, but the entire book is worth your time. We are so blessed to have him as our shepherd.

Like you, I am inspired by his example of reverence of the Eucharist.

I think the point about “consecrated hands” is a bit of a distractor. Deacons’ hands aren’t consecrated, and I’ve never heard of anybody worried about receiving from a deacon. I’m told that Eastern Catholic priests do not have their hands consecrated at ordination. I’m also told that the consecration of Latin Rite priests’ hands is for the confection of the Eucharist, not for the distribution of Holy Communion. Finally, I think that most priests would also say “I am not worthy of this.” Who really is worthy to handle the body of Christ? His blessed mother, certainly, but none of us!

On things like this, I’m of a mind to just follow Holy Mother Church. For us in the U.S., she allows COTT, CITH, standing, kneeling. Choose what is best for you and let others do the same. Encourage by witness and not by browbeating (not directed at OP, but this forum is full of that at times)

thank pal since all is accepted chose that which is most reverent and confortable to you just don’t forget that reverence and worship is truly due to the almighty

 

[Ubenedictus]

My question is, how is one being disobedient when we are allowed to receive all three ways?( hand, standing and kneeling)

Being the “norm” is not an exclusive term but inclusive. It means there are other options out the that are just as good but one way more used (not better or worse) than others.

I am a “renewed” Catholic (yes labels) but it fits me. And like that I am on fire with my Faith and desire to learn as much as possible. I love CAF but am very surprised as to responses to Gannonite’s request for advice. Is this a hot-button topic I don’t know about in the US? If Glennonite wants to recieve kneeling and it’s not illegal to do so what’s the problem?

My pastor these last few weeks, as part of preparing us for the new missal, wanted to clear up some actions during the mass ( such as holding hands during the Lords Prayer, etc) an one thing he read was from USCCB stating the three acceptable means for receiving our Lord. So we have no issue here thank God.

God bless you.

thank you for clarity, all the posture are allowed according to the bishop conference. So there is nothing illegal, illicit or disobedient here. Thank again

 

[MariaGoretti88]

Dear OP,

I’m so glad that your relationship with the Lord is growing and becoming more profound. I receive on the tongue while standing, but I genuflect before I receive. At the EF, I always kneel of course and it was because of the practice of being fed by the Hands of the Lord Himself through His ministers who act in His person as witnessed in the EF of the Roman Rite as well as in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in the Eastern Orthodox churches that made me have such devotion for the practice.

Many take issue with the fact that you are going against the norms as set forth by the Bishops of the United States. Should you choose to obey their wishes and receive standing, that is very laudible and humble of you. Humility is the mother of all virtues and one of the most difficult to practice. Receiving Jesus Christ reverently is not tied to a specific posture or form or rite, which I’m sure you know. The Lord can and is received reverently while standing (Eastern Catholics receive while standing as well as the Eastern Orthodox). Uniformity and being part of the community is important during worship.

However, please do not fall into the category of people who believe that being uniform and ‘communal’ is the end-all-be-all of Roman Catholic worship and that anything that departs from that is of the worst kinds of liturgical abuse. Assisting at the Sacred Mysteries and receiving them are also highly intimate experiences (one of the reasons I have seen some clerics discourage wandering eyes during the distribution of Holy Communion): *You are mystically present at the event which brought about your redemption * and your first and foremost duties to the Blessed Trinity should be adoration, thanksgiving, reparation, and impetration, that which pertains to loving God. Maybe one day you will be able to receive standing again with even greater reverence.

By all means, consider and obey your superiors and the Bishops (although keep in mind that there are Bishops, perhaps yours, who would encourage your kneeling), but keep in mind also that you are not bound under pain of excommunication to receiving standing just because you happen to be in the United States or that your soul would suffer the torments of Hell for eternity because of it either.

Just reflect, maybe obedience is harder for some than for others

In Nomine Christis,
Christopher

 

[Laudate_Dominum]

After much thought and prayer, I’ve decided to follow our Pope’s example and wish to show my adoration of the Blessed Sacrament by receiving on my knees and on my tongue. My whole life, I’ve received, reverently in my hands (although when I was 8-13 years old, I definately used the Communion rail).

If I do bend knee and open my mouth to receive Holy Communion next Sunday, I will be the only one at my parish to do so. I don’t want to cause a problem. What should be my response if I am denied the Eucharist? There my not be an issue here, but what if there is? I have heard of some, in some parishes, who were denied and even chastized on the spot.

I am not afraid of the possible negative response, but do not want to “just go along” with the congregation in a practice that is not in line with the Holy Father’s wishes.

Am I alone in this thinking?

Thanks,

Glennonite

Contact your pastor before hand, explain that you would like to receive kneeling. There will be no problem with receiving on the tongue either way.

 

[Brendan]

Many take issue with the fact that you are going against the norms as set forth by the Bishops of the United States. Should you choose to obey their wishes and receive standing, that is very laudible and humble of you.

One thing to note, per the revised GIRM, the Bishops of the US place the decision on posture freely on the recipent.

So if one kneels to recieve, one IS following the directives of the US Bishops as approved by ROme.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

Greetings Glennonite,

I completely sympathize with your feelings, and I get so excited if I attend a parish that still has an altar rail and uses it. Have you attended an EF Mass celebrated with the blessing of the local Bishop, or do you have one in your area? I know many don’t unfortunately.

Kneeling to recieve is one reason why I have a strong preference for the EF, I can’t imagine recieving Holy Communion in the future any other way but kneeling.

I still wonder what the reasoning was behind taking away the altar rail in so many parishes. I think they are a great way to emphasize how special, sacred, and unique the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is.

The Mass is God the Son’s High Priestly ministry before God the Father occuring right there in front of us. We should do anything and everything we can to emphasize how great a privelage it is for us to be able to even witness it…
and WOW…we even get to participate in it! Deo Gratias!

~Josh