On the Necessity of Proving Things

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Actually, a verification is precisely what they make for. That is verification, that is science and the very computer you’re typing on is a manifestation of the success and validity of that process.
It is not logically necessary for an explosion to have happened at the beginning of the universe for microwaves and galactic shifts to exist. The internal movements of the universe do not logically suggest such an explosion,any more than tidal waves and land drift suggest an explosion in the water.
 
It is not logically necessary for an explosion to have happened at the beginning of the universe for microwaves and galactic shifts to exist. The internal movements of the universe do not logically suggest such an explosion,any more than tidal waves and land drift suggest an explosion in the water.
I don’t care if it’s logically necessary or not. We have the data. We know it happened. Logic is irrelevant, as usual.
 
That is precisely where you demonstrate your ignorance. The Big Bang can be measured, has been measured and the measurements conform to theoretical predicitons. Fred Hoyle was even able to use the Big Bang Theory to predict the structure of certain Carbon Isotopes.
You can’t measure a hypothetical event at the beginning of time,you can only measure what you assume be the continuing effects of that hypothetical event.
You have never read anything about the Big Bang Theory, or you would know that you’re making a fool of yourself with this rubbish that the Big Bang cannot be tested by measurements of it’s properties. The Big Bang isn’t over. We’re still in it. It’s happening right now, and it can be measured.
What you’re calling the Big Bang happening now is just the current conditions and movements in the universe. Do you see the difference between knowing about a hypothetical explosion at the beginning of time,and measuring the current conditions and movement in the universe? Do you see how the latter does not amount to the former?
The Vatican endorses the Big Bang theory and the thoery that dare not speak it’s name.
Like socialism passing under the guise of social justice?
 
You can’t measure a hypothetical event at the beginning of time,you can only measure what you assume be the continuing effects of that hypothetical event.
No sir. There is no such assumption. The event is not hypothetical, and examing the standard model, which is the same now as it was at the very Planck Time t = zero, we can make predictions that agree with experimental data.

This is not assumption, it’s not hypothetical. The hypothesis has been ratified to a precision exponentially greater than the finest watch. Every parameter is exactly as the Big Bang theory predicits. Like I said, and you’ve yet to address this point, Fred Hoyle actually used the Big Bang Theory to predict with total accuracy the properties of Carbon Isotopes.

That is why it is called the Big Bang Theory and not the Big Bang Hypothesis, because it is not hypothetical.
What you’re calling the Big Bang happening now is just the current conditions and movements in the universe. Do you see the difference between knowing about a hypothetical explosion at the beginning of time,and measuring the current conditions and movement in the universe? Do you see how the latter does not amount to the former?
This is a false dichotomy. The Big Bang is still happening. The Universe is still expanding. You are horribly, stupidly wrong.
Like socialism passing under the guise of social justice?
That is a non sequitir. Save it for the politics forum, since it has nothing to do with science, religion or philosophy.
 
Actually, a verification is precisely what they make for. That is verification, that is science and the very computer you’re typing on is a manifestation of the success and validity of that process.
The existence of technological products do not make naturalistic theories about the origins of the universe or of species worthy of belief. There’s a difference between the practical side of science and the naturalistic,speculative side of science.
 
The existence of technological products do not make naturalistic theories about the origins of the universe or of species worthy of belief. There’s a difference between the practical side of science and the naturalistic,speculative side of science.
Indeed there is. I strongly suggest you learn it. The Big Bang is practical science, ratified, not a hypothesis. String Theory, on the other hand, is speculative. Your attempts to be definitive on a construct you clearly do not understand are making you look uneducated.
 
Indeed there is. I strongly suggest you learn it. The Big Bang is practical science, ratified, not a hypothesis. String Theory, on the other hand, is speculative. Your attempts to be definitive on a construct you clearly do not understand are making you look uneducated.
I cannot help but point out the irony of this…
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Moonstruck888:
That is a non sequitir. Save it for the politics forum, since it has nothing to do with science, religion or philosophy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_philosophy

Nonetheless; you are correct in pointing out that the Big Bang is not a hypothesis; however the attitude is somewhat uncharitable.
 
You can’t measure a hypothetical event at the beginning of time,you can only measure what you assume be the continuing effects of that hypothetical event.
How would you account for the fact, from a scientific perspective, that the universe is not in a steady state, but is rather, expanding?
 
I object to it because it is a theory of the coming into existence of the universe that proceeds from the naturalistic perspective.
Big Bang theory does not attempt to explain the ultimate coming into existence of “matter and energy”. Fr. Georges Lemaître does not say, as a scientist, whether or not something natural existed prior to his “primeval atom”.

Big Bang does not attempt to answer the question as to why there is something rather than nothing. In this sense, Big Bang is not a theory about “coming into existence”. Physics treats of matter in motion, explaining the quantifiable aspects of things and their relations.

It appears, once again that you are faulting physics for not being theology, while simultaneously allegedly that physics usurps theology by giving natural explanations for what can only have a theological explanation. Since, this is a thread about proving things, I think you have utterly failed to be relevant to the thread topic by refusing to offer proof, or at least logical, informed argument and reasons for your position.

What is it in BBt that physics explains, which you think requires rather a theological explanation? Be specific in your answer. (So, far you have conveniently avoided being specific in your statements.)
We ought to know by reason that the universe was created by God,and we ought not to accept a theory that ignores God where it is necessary to acknowedge his power.
See foregoing question. (I am not concerned for now with those cosmological theories (Hawkings, et al) that step beyond the proper scope and limit of physics in an attempt to disprove the contingency of the universe.)
Nor should we accept a theory that purports to explain an event that cannot be witnessed or measured by any means.
It’s ironic that you pick Big Bang theory which to pose your objection since the theory is one of the most solidly supported broad scope theories in the history of science.

Nonetheless, your question cannot be answered until you demonstrate at least a basic understanding of the theory you criticize.
The popes are skeptical of naturalistic theories that cannot be verified.
Do you have any idea of the logical and factual errors this statement contains? Of course not. First, in the larger context of your argument, it begs the question (petitio principii). You have merely assumed the truth of your conclusion that BBt cannot be verified, when that is the very claim for which you have failed from the outset to offer any rational argument, evidence or proof.

Second, while popes and scientists themselves are skeptical about scientific theories that cannot be verified, modern popes since Pope Pius XII do not view BBt as unverified. And much more evidence supporting the BBt has accumulated since Fr. Georges Lemaître first formulated the theory in 1927**: **
“In 1927, the Belgian Catholic priest Georges Lemaître proposed an expanding model for the universe to explain the observed redshifts of spiral nebulae and forecast the Hubble law. He based his theory on the work of Einstein and De Sitter, and independently derived Friedmann’s equations for an expanding universe. Also the red shifts themselves were not constant but varied in such manner as to lead to the conclusion that there was a definite relationship between amount of red-shift of nebulae; and their distance from observers.” (History of the Big Bang theory)

Third, Pope Pius XII taught BBt according to the science of the day. For example, see, Address of Pope Pius XII to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, November 22, 1951.

Eg: “32. Let us now turn our attention to the past. The farther back we go, the more matter presents itself as always more enriched with free energy, and as a theater of vast cosmic disturbances. Thus everything seems to indicate that the material universe had in finite times a mighty beginning, provided as it was with an indescribably vast abundance of energy reserves, in virture of which, at first rapidly and then with increasing slowness, it evolved into its present state.”

I recommend that you study the entire address by the pope, which will then remind you not to make such blatantly false assertions about the popes and BBt.

As a side note, Pope Pius XII originally tended to speak of the BBt as proof for the existence of God and evidence for creatio ex nihilo. However, at the advice of Fr. Georges Lemaître, the pope backed away from those assertions as a reading of more into the scientific theory than was or could be there. The pope’s enthusiasm for the theory explains the full title of the address, which speaks of a proof for the existence of God. Properly speaking, BBt, or any scientific theory, does cannot prove the existence of God. The most it can do is point the mind in that direction, just as any natural, non-scientific reflection on the marvels of nature can do.

It just occurred to me that Pope Pius XII once tended to speak of BBt as evidence for God, while you speak of the theory as godless and illogical. The contrast in interpretations is instructive. It’s a contrast between the pope, who studied BBt, and “anthony022071”, who has never studied the theory.

Do I need to quote subsequent popes and their acceptance of BBt, or is the one reference enough for you to see the falsity of your statement. It really won’t hurt you to research something yourself, for once.
 
I oppose the theory on the grounds that it does not make sense – it uses bad logic,non sequiturs,dubious causal relations.

See posts 897,898,899.
Cont. from previous post:

Take a hint: You consistently fail to offer solid reasons for your objection. You have become a johnny-one-note on this topic.

Do you think it is reasonable for anyone to criticize a scientific theory of which he has not even a basic understanding? :whacky:
 
To anthony022071:

Still waiting for a reply:

***** How would you account for the fact, from a scientific perspective, that the universe is not in a steady state, but is rather, expanding? :whistle:

Also, your criticism about BBt ignoring God’s causality implies that you adhere to certain ideas about God and creation, however implicit, that are both theologically and philosophically unsound, as well as being a misreprestation of the nature of scientific theories.

Theologically, we say the Creator holds all things in existence – they have their sufficiency from their Ultimate Cause. There is another side to the same coin that recognizes in contingent being, a sufficiency of its own. While it appears paradoxical on the surface to say things have their sufficiency from God, and that they also have a sufficiency of their own, both statements are true.

Because contingent beings have a sufficiency of their own, natural causes can be legitimately studied by the natural sciences without reference to their Ultimate Cause. Not only is this the case for science, it is the proper method of the natural sciences.

The natural sciences properly limit themselves to the quantifiable aspects of natural things and their relations. To deny this, as is the implication of your posts, is not only poor science, it implies poor philosophy by the standard of classical philosophy and poor theology by the standard of orthodox Catholicism. That three strikes, Anthony. :eek:
 
What you’re calling the Big Bang happening now is just the current conditions and movements in the universe. Do you see the difference between knowing about a hypothetical explosion at the beginning of time,and measuring the current conditions and movement in the universe? Do you see how the latter does not amount to the former?
All natural events have causes, every effect a cause (except to those who subscribe to the denial of the principle of causality out of adherence to a false philosophy, such as Mach, and later, those who follow Heisenberg’s philosophical interpretation of quantum events.), and so any event is traced by science from one specificity to another. Science does this well on a horizontal, so to speak, time perspective. We can trace cause and effect back in time.

Also, we can, and this is what I hope you can see, the death knell of your argument, literally see back in time billions of years. What we see from many billions of years ago only confirms BBt.

Hence, it is absolutely false for anyone to claim that we only know and see current conditions.
We both see and know about prior conditions. 🍿
 
No but you have said that any god but yours is not real… with no proof what so ever…
Of course I did not offer “proof”, since we were merely discussing how to read the Bible.
Do you have anything to back up that assertion?
You mean can I provide evidence for the falsity of pagan polytheistic myths?
From philosophical reasoning, there are the traditional demonstrations for the existence of the one, true God. These could be discussed here, except that I suspect you have no background in classical philosophy.
This is in no way proof of anything other than you believe it to be true and there are others who are just as sure your belief system is not true…
That is your belief. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion?
Try going back and showing some evidence of your assertions that any other religion is nothing but superstition and old timey beliefs by gullible persons…
No religion can provide the evidence, especially historical evidence, for its truth as can the Judeo-Christian.
 
You equated the Myths and Fables (both words used to describe fiction, that is stories that are not real) to the Bible, that is why I thought you agreed with me that what is in the bible does not ahve to be real to be true. You washed your hands of the necesity for the bible’s stories to be based on reality.
You have not paid due attention to the distinctions I have made. When I spoke of myths, I stipulated that I was not using the term in the sense of something that is not true. A myth in the sense in which I using the term can very well be based in reality, and in some cases, actual historical events, though it may express those realities in figurative language. One cannot arbitrarily dismiss the historical realities or the moral truths, or the religious truths, or the philosophical truths behind the metaphors merely because they are being taught using figurative language.

Why do you think I need to question my assumptions? Or, better yet, Why do you assume, and assume so from the outset, that my beliefs are merely assumptions? It is you who are operating on assumptions, and have yet to find the truth.

I have studied all the major religions, the myths of the Greeks and Romans, the history of civilization, the major philosophical systems, and more. You do not understand Catholicism because you have no faith. Understanding only comes through faith. Without faith, you have a long, arduous journey, one fraught with many perils, on the road to truth. There is no royal road to ultimate truth. You have to make the necessary effort. You should spend some years studying classical philosophy. Classical philosophy is emimently thought that has been thought out.

I accept the truth of the Bible soley on the authority of the Catholic Church. Adhering to the infallible teaching of authority of the Church keeps one from many errors and pitfalls, and it opens up the mind and the heart to Reality itself. To quote from G.K. Chesterton, “In my vision the heavenly chariot flies thundering through the ages, the dull heresies sprawling and prostrate, the wild truth reeling but erect.”

Consider further what G.K. Chesterton said: “It is always easy to let the age have its head; the difficult thing is to keep one’s own. It is always easy to be a modernist, as it is easy to be a snob. To have fallen into any of those open traps of error and exaggeration which fashion after fashion and sect after sect set along the historic path of Christendom – …that would indeed have been simple. It is always simple to fall: there are an infinity of angles at which one falls: only one at which one stands. To have fallen into any one of the fads from Gnosticism to Christian Science would indeed have been obvious and tame. But to have avoided them all has been one whirling adventure; and in my vision the heavenly chariot flies thundering through the ages, the dull heresies sprawling and prostrate, the wild truth reeling but erect (Orthodoxy).”

You should read “Heretics” and “Orthodoxy” by G.K. Chesterton. Reading will add some content to your discussion.

The Collected Works of G.K. Chesterton, Vol. 1: Heretics, Orthodoxy, the Blatchford Controversies (Collected Works of G. K. Chesterton
 
Why are you criticizing Big Bang theory, when, as your post reveals, you have not studied cosmology or physics?
anthony022071;7012852:
I object to it because it is a theory of the coming into existence of the universe that proceeds from the naturalistic perspective. We ought to know by reason that the universe was created by God,and we ought not to accept a theory that ignores God where it is necessary to acknowedge his power. Nor should we accept a theory that purports to explain an event that cannot be witnessed or measured by any means.
itinerant1;7015501:
See foregoing question. (I am not concerned for now with those cosmological theories (Hawkings, et al) that step beyond the proper scope and limit of physics in an attempt to disprove the contingency of the universe.)
Nice to met you itinerant1 and anthony022071. 🙂 Brief mention, academician Stephen W. Hawking is a member of The Pontifical Academy of Sciences. Here is a brief mention about him from the Vatican website:

Summary of scientific research I started research in gravitation and cosmology in 1962 at Cambridge under the supervision of Dr. D.W. Sciama. My first major work was on the question of whether there was a singularity, a point of infinite density and space-time curvature, at the beginning of the present expansion phase of the universe. Together with Roger Penrose I was able to show that there would be such a singularity in any reasonable cosmological model if the general theory of relativity was correct. The singularity would be a beginning of the universe, a place where the laws of physics break down. In 1970 I started to work on black holes. These are regions of space-time in which the gravitational field is so strong that nothing can escape. They are formed when burnt out stars or larger objects collapse. I was one of the people whose combined work proved the ‘no hair’ theorem which showed that a black hole would settle down to a state that depended only on the mass and angular momentum of the hole. I also showed that the event horizon, the boundary of the black hole, always increased in area as matter fell into the hole. This suggested a connection between the area and the thermodynamic concept of entropy, which became more definite in 1974 when I showed that quantum mechanics would cause small black holes to create and emit particles as if they were hot bodies. Since 1974 I have worked mainly on the problem of unifying gravity and quantum mechanics. With others at Cambridge I developed a Euclidean approach which is now generally accepted. I have been interested in the extra degree of predictability that gravity introduces because the topology of space-time can change. I have also done quite a lot of work on the very early universe. I worked on the inflationary model and more recently on the initial boundary conditions of the universe. I have suggested that the boundary conditions of the universe are that it has no boundary. This would mean that there was no singularity and no single event that could be identified as the creation. Instead one could say that the universe was created quantum mechanically from nothing.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/own/documents/hawkingnew.html

Professor Hawking does at times mention in a lecture that he thinks God started it.

The Big Bang Theory is accepted by him and all reputable scientists (religious and non-religious), including the Pope’s Scientific Advisory Committee.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/own/documents/pasacademicians.html

Thank you. Peace be with you and everyone that has participated on this topic. 🙂
 
Nice to met you itinerant1 and anthony022071. 🙂 Brief mention, academician Stephen W. Hawking is a member of The Pontifical Academy of Sciences. Here is a brief mention about him from the Vatican website:

Summary of scientific research I started research in gravitation and cosmology in 1962 at Cambridge under the supervision of Dr. D.W. Sciama. My first major work was on the question of whether there was a singularity, a point of infinite density and space-time curvature, at the beginning of the present expansion phase of the universe. Together with Roger Penrose I was able to show that there would be such a singularity in any reasonable cosmological model if the general theory of relativity was correct. The singularity would be a beginning of the universe, a place where the laws of physics break down. In 1970 I started to work on black holes. These are regions of space-time in which the gravitational field is so strong that nothing can escape. They are formed when burnt out stars or larger objects collapse. I was one of the people whose combined work proved the ‘no hair’ theorem which showed that a black hole would settle down to a state that depended only on the mass and angular momentum of the hole. I also showed that the event horizon, the boundary of the black hole, always increased in area as matter fell into the hole. This suggested a connection between the area and the thermodynamic concept of entropy, which became more definite in 1974 when I showed that quantum mechanics would cause small black holes to create and emit particles as if they were hot bodies. Since 1974 I have worked mainly on the problem of unifying gravity and quantum mechanics. With others at Cambridge I developed a Euclidean approach which is now generally accepted. I have been interested in the extra degree of predictability that gravity introduces because the topology of space-time can change. I have also done quite a lot of work on the very early universe. I worked on the inflationary model and more recently on the initial boundary conditions of the universe. I have suggested that the boundary conditions of the universe are that it has no boundary. This would mean that there was no singularity and no single event that could be identified as the creation. Instead one could say that the universe was created quantum mechanically from nothing.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/own/documents/hawkingnew.html

Professor Hawking does at times mention in a lecture that he thinks God started it.

The Big Bang Theory is accepted by him and all reputable scientists (religious and non-religious), including the Pope’s Scientific Advisory Committee.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/own/documents/pasacademicians.html

Thank you. Peace be with you and everyone that has participated on this topic. 🙂
Greetings, LogisticsBranch. I am not sure what you intend as your main point. PAS members are reputable scientists in their respective fields. They can be of any religious belief, or none at all.

Hawking, does mention God, intermittently, when he speaks, but the gist of his “A Brief History of Time” is to present a cosmological theory of a universe that has no need for God. The universe can allegedly create itself from nothing: “Instead, one could say that the universe was created quantum mechanically from nothing.”

This is Hawking’s attempt to eliminate *creatio ex nihilo, *by attributing to the universe that which has been traditionally attributed to God alone, the ability to create. Hawking’s theory applies Heisenberg’s false philosophical interpretation of quantum indeterminancy. The late physicist and theologian, Fr. Stanley L. Jaki, also a member of PAS, says “A Brief History of Time was not brief enough.” (BTW, in that book, Hawking does make deliberately false statements about the pope and the church.)

Hawking’s formulation of his cosmological theory, then, is motivated by non-scientific concerns. Whether his particular theory, in the last analysis, even makes sense, remains to be seen. On this matter, see Aquinas and the Big Bang by William E. Carroll.

Regarding the originator of Big Bang theory, see ‘A Day Without Yesterday’: Georges Lemaitre & the Big Bang by Mark Midbon.

Feel free to post your take on all of this.
 
Of course I did not offer “proof”, since we were merely discussing how to read the Bible.
No, we were discussing the necessity of proving things, you seem to think your version of reality requires no proof but every one else’s does…
You mean can I provide evidence for the falsity of pagan polytheistic myths?
From philosophical reasoning, there are the traditional demonstrations for the existence of the one, true God. These could be discussed here, except that I suspect you have no background in classical philosophy.
In other words, no you cannot provide any evidence other than the assertions of your religion that it is true…
That is your belief. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion?
So far you have failed miserably to show you assertions have any support other than your beiefs… I know many people who believe quite fervently that they are correct you are wrong both inside the Christian religion and outside it, not to mention totally out side the monotheistic traditions. You have nothing to stand on but myths, your myths are no better than the Norse gods, the Celtic gods, European pagans, Hindus, Raelians, Scientologists or Mormons. if you want to claim other wise it is indeed up to you to show some evidence that is not simply part of your own belief system. I am on PM right now with long time friend from India who is Hindu, he doesn’t give your religion any more weight than you give his and he believes it just a surely as you do, his religion dates back to well before yours as well… as do many other religions… so you are just another Johnny come lately .
No religion can provide the evidence, especially historical evidence, for its truth as can the Judeo-Christian.
Prove it with something other than your own claims and the claims of your religion.
 
You have not paid due attention to the distinctions I have made. When I spoke of myths, I stipulated that I was not using the term in the sense of something that is not true. A myth in the sense in which I using the term can very well be based in reality, and in some cases, actual historical events, though it may express those realities in figurative language. One cannot arbitrarily dismiss the historical realities or the moral truths, or the religious truths, or the philosophical truths behind the metaphors merely because they are being taught using figurative language.
Arguing in circles is not proof or evidence of anything…
Why do you think I need to question my assumptions? Or, better yet, Why do you assume, and assume so from the outset, that my beliefs are merely assumptions? It is you who are operating on assumptions, and have yet to find the truth.
I have studied all the major religions, the myths of the Greeks and Romans, the history of civilization, the major philosophical systems, and more. You do not understand Catholicism because you have no faith. Understanding only comes through faith. Without faith, you have a long, arduous journey, one fraught with many perils, on the road to truth. There is no royal road to ultimate truth. You have to make the necessary effort. You should spend some years studying classical philosophy. Classical philosophy is emimently thought that has been thought out.
Just more proselytizing
I accept the truth of the Bible soley on the authority of the Catholic Church. Adhering to the infallible teaching of authority of the Church keeps one from many errors and pitfalls, and it opens up the mind and the heart to Reality itself. To quote from G.K. Chesterton, “In my vision the heavenly chariot flies thundering through the ages, the dull heresies sprawling and prostrate, the wild truth reeling but erect.”
None the less it is just your belief, it’s only evidence is that belief, nothing but a circular argument.
Consider further what G.K. Chesterton said: “It is always easy to let the age have its head; the difficult thing is to keep one’s own. It is always easy to be a modernist, as it is easy to be a snob. To have fallen into any of those open traps of error and exaggeration which fashion after fashion and sect after sect set along the historic path of Christendom – …that would indeed have been simple. It is always simple to fall: there are an infinity of angles at which one falls: only one at which one stands. To have fallen into any one of the fads from Gnosticism to Christian Science would indeed have been obvious and tame. But to have avoided them all has been one whirling adventure; and in my vision the heavenly chariot flies thundering through the ages, the dull heresies sprawling and prostrate, the wild truth reeling but erect (Orthodoxy).”

You should read “Heretics” and “Orthodoxy” by G.K. Chesterton. Reading will add some content to your discussion.
Nothing but more patting each other on the back and telling each other how awesome your beliefs are, totally incestuous and irrelevant.

All you are doing is proselytizing your own beliefs, you have no more evidence for yours than any one else has for theirs. your constant assertion that your beliefs are true while others are superstitions is disingenuous at best and intentional lies at worst.
 
itinerant1,

Well, look at it this way: if you could prove your religion, it wouldn’t be a religion.
 
Greetings, LogisticsBranch. I am not sure what you intend as your main point. PAS members are reputable scientists in their respective fields. They can be of any religious belief, or none at all.
Hello intinerant1, one point I was attempting to deal with was this prior statement of yours, “See foregoing question. (I am not concerned for now with those cosmological theories (Hawkings, et al) that step beyond the proper scope and limit of physics in an attempt to disprove the contingency of the universe.)”

You imply that Hawking is dealing with cosmological theories which isn’t accurate. He is not attempting to disprove ‘the contingency of the universe’ by stepping beyond the proper scope and limit of physics.

Also, 'The Pontifical Academy of Sciences is international in scope, multi-racial in composition, and non-sectarian in its choice of members" and “The Academy is governed by a President who is nominated from among the Academicians by the Supreme Pontiff” as stated on in the History section of The Pontifical Academy of Sciences. Basically, it is a non-biased group of individuals. (Please review my post on the previous page that has a link.)
Hawking, does mention God, intermittently, when he speaks, but the gist of his “A Brief History of Time” is to present a cosmological theory of a universe that has no need for God. The universe can allegedly create itself from nothing: “Instead, one could say that the universe was created quantum mechanically from nothing.”
Science itself doesn’t address issues pertaining to God. 🙂 However, religous and non-religious scientists have the freedom to express themself in public whether they love God or not. We should be mindful that religion isn’t taught in a science classroom.😃
This is Hawking’s attempt to eliminate *creatio ex nihilo, *by attributing to the universe that which has been traditionally attributed to God alone, the ability to create. Hawking’s theory applies Heisenberg’s false philosophical interpretation of quantum indeterminancy. The late physicist and theologian, Fr. Stanley L. Jaki, also a member of PAS, says “A Brief History of Time was not brief enough.” (BTW, in that book, Hawking does make deliberately false statements about the pope and the church.)
I’m not aware of that. I’ve never heard Stephen Hawking say that nor have I read that in a book. Let’s say what you are saying is true. I don’t think the Pope cares, otherwise Stephen Hawking wouldn’t be a member of the Pope’s Scientific Advisory Committee that reports to the Pope. 🙂

Sorry to hear about Dr.Jaki who passed away on April 7, 2009 in Madrid, Spain. He had a
a doctorate in systematic theology and a PhD in physics from Fordham University.

Professor Nicola Cabibbo recently passed away on August 16, 2010. “The Chancellor, the Council, the Academic Body and the staff of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences sadly announce the death of their President.”
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/index.htm
I’ve cried off and on since I learned about his death. Please pray for his family, friends, etc.
Hawking’s formulation of his cosmological theory, then, is motivated by non-scientific concerns. Whether his particular theory, in the last analysis, even makes sense, remains to be seen.
I have to disagree with you. He accepts the Big Bang Theory as I earlier stated. You may wish to explore his website for futher information and review all his publications. 🙂
hawking.org.uk/index.php/information/newsandarchive
Regarding the originator of Big Bang theory, see ‘A Day Without Yesterday’: Georges Lemaitre & the Big Bang by Mark Midbon.
Thanks. Very kind of you. 🙂 I will review it later. Here is something you may wish to review:
The Big Bang Model rests on two theoretical pillars: General Relativity and the Cosmological Principle. map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_theory.html
Feel free to post your take on all of this.
Thank you.🙂 I appreciate the opportunity to expand upon our discussion. I wonder if Stephen Hawking will be part of the Welcoming Ceremony for POPE BENEDICT XVI
in the Palace of Holyroodhouse - Courtesy Visit to Her Majesty Elizabeth II, Queen of the United Kingdom, in the Palace of Holyroodhouse! 😃
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/travels/2010/documents/trav_ben-xvi_regno-unito_20100916_en.html
That is so awesome of Her Majesty Elizabeth II. 👍
 
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