On the seal of Confession

[noorez]

Hey,

Not sure why I came up with this odd random hypothetical question but I thought I should just ask anyway

I understand that the seal of confession is absolutely binding on the priest and any catholic who happens to hear the hear confession (whether intentionally in the case of an interpreter or unintentionally…). But I myself am not a catholic (nor christian)…

What would happen if I overheard someone confessing a grave criminal offence? (Maybe for an ongoing criminal investigation? murder, human trafficking…). Now on one hand, I feel that I should respect the catholic institution and its practises just as I would want mine respected… but on the other hand, I am not a catholic and not bound by the Church’s laws. Thus I would feel obligated to report to the police what I know so that due and fair justice in the courts is not held restrained both to offenders of the law and victims.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[peter26]

I’m a recent convert, so I attended Catholic Mass and other events for some time before converting. If I had overhead a confession during that time, I would have respected the seal of the confession.

 

[The_Apostolate]

I believe that if your are listing too some one confessing ,you are too close too the confession area,and should be further back, so you don,t hear what the person is saying too the priest,for it,s between God and the person confessing his sin,s.
Would you like it if some one was listening too you confessing?,so now you know what I believe,hope you understand.

 

[MiserableSinner]

May the grace and peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

This will help you to understand what is happening in Confession. We are at war with Satan:

copiosa.org/liguori_sermons/liguori_sermon_27.htm

I have literally NEVER heard of the Seal of Confession being broken. It is just something that doesn’t ever seem to happen.

A penitent must understand that they are going to be washed clean in God’s Blood (God’s Son is God, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity). It is a grave sin worse than murder to commit sacrilege in Holy Confession. To willfully withhold a sin (forgetting is DIFFERENT and if one forgets, the absolution is still valid. It is important for people not to doubt their absolution. If a person does not TRY to lie or withhold a sin and if they are TRYING to tell all their sins, their confession is valid and they are CLEAN).

God has healed me in Holy Confession in ways I can not put into words. He really washes us clean in His Blood.

God loves you

 

[noorez]

So just to clarify, I wouldn’t intentionally try to hear a confession. I am suggesting a situation where it happened by purely by accident. But given that situation, (and in the worst case, forced by court order to disclose what I had heard. Since I am not a preist, I’m not sure the same legal privilege would be extended to me to keep my silence…)

 

[MiserableSinner]

So just to clarify, I wouldn’t intentionally try to hear a confession. I am suggesting a situation where it happened by purely by accident. But given that situation, (and in the worst case, forced by court order to disclose what I had heard. Since I am not a preist, I’m not sure the same legal privilege would be extended to me to keep my silence…)

Have no fear. It simply does not happen. God knows that Holy Confession and Holy Communion are profitable for our eternal Salvation (and almost necessary).

The faithful intentionally stand back from the door to Holy Confession. If we were to hear, we would NEVER disclose what we heard. Not even if court ordered to.

I would confidently go into Holy Confession with all the sins of all of the damned in Hell to confess, and the worst priest on the planet as my confessor, knowing that when I am absolved by Christ’s representative I am cleansed in the Blood of God and worthy to partake of Holy Communion. And if all of the faithful were to hear the Confession, I would not fear prison nor death. God would not abandon His servant who is clean in His sight.

Be at peace. God loves you. He is with you.

 

[Bonnie]

I have literally NEVER heard of the Seal of Confession being broken. It is just something that doesn’t ever seem to happen.

I have - but I’ve had doubts I was told the truth. An ex-Catholic told me that when he was an altar server the priest would talk about people’s confessions. But, considering the man, he may have been exaggerating. But then again, maybe not. There are some bad priests out there.

The OP’s question is a good one. How does one enforce Church law on those who don’t belong to the Church? And should the Church even try?

 

[Crusaderbear]

The burden, hypothetically , would be on the confessor of the sin not to be overheard…

Reporting anything by you would be a civic affair.

 

[Crusaderbear]

I have - but I’ve had doubts I was told the truth. An ex-Catholic told me that when he was an altar server the priest would talk about people’s confessions. But, considering the man, he may have been exaggerating. But then again, maybe not. There are some bad priests out there.

The OP’s question is a good one. How does one enforce Church law on those who don’t belong to the Church? And should the Church even try?

Probably more bad altar boys!

 

[MiserableSinner]

I have - but I’ve had doubts I was told the truth. An ex-Catholic told me that when he was an altar server the priest would talk about people’s confessions. But, considering the man, he may have been exaggerating. But then again, maybe not. There are some bad priests out there.

If a priest says “people often confess to me that they are committing adultery, and this is what I tell them…” That is not breaking the Seal of Confession, from my understanding.

I would confess any sin to any priest because I trust Jesus. But if someone is worried about it, just be sure to find a God fearing priest who has faith. No priest with fear of God and faith will even have ONE THOUGHT about revealing what was said and by who in Holy Confession. Guaranteed, no matter what the sins are. That priest knows who he is serving - ALL POWERFUL God. Really though, the penitent should trust ALL POWERFUL God and take the FIRST opportunity to be washed clean in His Blood. Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ is prudence at its best. God’s mercy is from age to age to those who fear Him.

Jesus I trust in You. Please help Lord. It is impossible without your grace. Please grant us your grace. In Jesus Name I pray.

 

[FrDavid96]

So just to clarify, I wouldn’t intentionally try to hear a confession. I am suggesting a situation where it happened by purely by accident. But given that situation, (and in the worst case, forced by court order to disclose what I had heard. Since I am not a preist, I’m not sure the same legal privilege would be extended to me to keep my silence…)

Your moral obligation is to keep the Seal, no matter what.

What you are describing is the very definition of hearsay. You would have no way of knowing exactly what you’re hearing when overhearing the confession.

Further, the Seal belongs to the penitent and the priest. So if you overhear, the Seal would apply to you just as much as it would apply if someone placed a tape recorder in the confessional. The fact that you aren’t a priest doesn’t matter.

 

[Bonnie]

If a priest says “people often confess to me that they are committing adultery, and this is what I tell them…” That is not breaking the Seal of Confession, from my understanding.

That’s what I suspect the ex-Catholic ex-altar server was hearing, but he thought the priest was breaking the seal of the confessional. We know a good priest who did that - referred in general to what gets confessed - but this being a small parish some were able to figure out who he was talking about. Got him in no end of trouble.

 

[Bonnie]

Your moral obligation is to keep the Seal, no matter what.

What you are describing is the very definition of hearsay. You would have no way of knowing exactly what you’re hearing when overhearing the confession.

Further, the Seal belongs to the penitent and the priest. So if you overhear, the Seal would apply to you just as much as it would apply if someone placed a tape recorder in the confessional. The fact that you aren’t a priest doesn’t matter.

I think you’re right that it would be hearsay, but how does the Church enforce its laws on non-Catholics? How can there be a “moral obligation” to follow the rules of a Church one does not belong to? And does it go both ways? Do we have a moral obligation to follow the rules of other churches?

 

[MiserableSinner]

That’s what I suspect the ex-Catholic ex-altar server was hearing, but he thought the priest was breaking the seal of the confessional. We know a good priest who did that - referred in general to what gets confessed - but this being a small parish some were able to figure out who he was talking about. Got him in no end of trouble.

That is not true. No one figured out who he was talking about. They judged their brothers and sisters unjustly. If he didn’t tell them who it was, how would they know it was not the person they LEAST suspected it to be? They don’t know who he was talking about. If I say “someone committed a murder last night and told me,” you might think I am talking about the only drug dealer we know. It couldn’t have been the upper-class politician/businessman we know right? So you say in your heart “that drug dealer murdered that person.” But it was really the upper-class businessman who murdered a competitor.

I do not believe that your account of what happened is being told accurately. A good priest knows that people are quick to make unjust judgments in their hearts. He would be extra careful when talking about something like this, for fear that the other parishioners would sin and judge their brother or sister unjustly. He would also know that if people could easily figure out who he was talking about, he would in fact be breaking the Seal of the Confessional in God’s Holy sight. God does not think like us. Our hearts are laid bare to Him.

You need to be aware that we are not casually discussing this. What we say regarding Holy Confession could very well impact whether or not a soul is in eternal Hell or with God in Heaven for all of eternity.

Every penitent has EVERY reason to trust God’s representative because God’s representative represents God to them. We have to trust Jesus. God’s priests can be wrong about things, and they are sinners, but they still represent Christ to us in the Confessional.

God loves you. Please be prudent.

 

[MiserableSinner]

I think you’re right that it would be hearsay, but how does the Church enforce its laws on non-Catholics? How can there be a “moral obligation” to follow the rules of a Church one does not belong to? And does it go both ways? Do we have a moral obligation to follow the rules of other churches?

There is only One God and only one TRUE Faith. That is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and the Catholic Church. You are not making a distinction between The Church and heretic churches.

Hearsay is a legal term in a court of law. What Father was talking about is a legal definition. If a person overheard a confession and were to bring it up in court, it would be hearsay and thrown out. It would not be usable in court even if the case were treason in war time.

God loves you and loves the OP. My Confessor told me I need to read the book of Proverbs so that I will be more prudent. I struggle with prudence too. Maybe you should read it as well.

I love you God. Please grant us your grace. In Jesus Name I pray.

 

[1ke]

What would happen if I overheard someone confessing a grave criminal offence? (Maybe for an ongoing criminal investigation?

Nothing would “happen”.

If you told someone what you heard nothing would “happen” either. You are not a Catholic and the penalties outlined in canon law for breaking the seal are censures that apply to Catholics.

What were you imaging would “happen”?

 

[frizzgrig]

I think the more interesting question is - as an unbaptized person, why would you be hanging around the confessional where this might happen? You certainly may have reason for being in the church, but unless you are seeking the sacrament of reconciliation what reason do you have to be close enough to the confessional to hear what is going on?

 

[FrDavid96]

I think you’re right that it would be hearsay, but how does the Church enforce its laws on non-Catholics?

In one way, we cannot. Really, we cannot enforce laws even on Catholics unless they choose to follow them. Sure, I can refuse to perform an illicit marriage (thereby enforce the law), or something like that, but I know that’s not what you mean. More to the point, if someone accidentally overhears a confession, there’s nothing anyone can really do to prevent that person from talking, whether the hearer is Catholic or not.

Although we cannot directly enforce it, there are some ways we can do so indirectly. For example, the local diocese can petition a judge that information obtained by violating the Seal not be admitted into court.

How can there be a “moral obligation” to follow the rules of a Church one does not belong to?

We do this sort of thing all the time. If I visit a synagogue, I have a moral obligation to keep my head covered because that’s their tradition. I am expected to do it. If I have a dinner guest who is Moslem I don’t serve pork at the meal. It’s a simple matter of respecting others’ religious beliefs and practices even when we don’t share them.
Of course, we are not obligated to do things that outright violate our own beliefs.

If I know I’m going to be in a position where I have to do something that would violate my own beliefs, then I should stay away from that situation in the first place.

And does it go both ways?

yes

Do we have a moral obligation to follow the rules of other churches?

Yes, to an extent.

Surely, we don’t follow them all the time, but if we are in a position of being a visitor in their place (which is what this thread is about–a non-Catholic in a Catholic church) then we should respect and follow their traditions (again, so long as they don’t outright violate our own).

Things like this must be viewed in context. That’s important. The thread is about a non-Catholic somehow visiting a Catholic church (or maybe being in a hospital room during Confession). The context is being a visitor during someone else’s religious ceremony. Please keep context in mind when you’re reading my comments.

 

[FrDavid96]

I think the more interesting question is - as an unbaptized person, why would you be hanging around the confessional where this might happen? You certainly may have reason for being in the church, but unless you are seeking the sacrament of reconciliation what reason do you have to be close enough to the confessional to hear what is going on?

I did think about that too.

It might happen in a hospital. A person in bed-A overhears someone in bed-B making a confession.

At first it does sound near-impossible, but after thinking about it for a while, it’s not so far fetched.

 

[Kielbasi]

Since you aren’t Catholic, you aren’t bound by the ban.

But the defense attorney would still try to exclude your testimony if it came to that.