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Lucky7
Guest
So happy that was fixed.
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ProVobis
Guest
I think the Italian bishops have resisted.
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Basilios
Guest
How many times was Our Lord scourged for our sins? One wasn’t enough for the depth of His love.
Three times because all sin is so evil, we strike our breast and acknowledge our sins. We’re simple things, humans. Say it three times while striking your breast and you’ll “get it”. One didn’t seem to be enough for centuries.
Hey, how about the Kyrie. Three seemed too much for the innovators, but two? Come on, one isn’t enough? How about we just say it once!
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GangGreen
Guest
the original Latin translation is mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. The purposes is to emphasize the fault of the confessor.
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Lucky7
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The symbolism of the number three is huge.How many times was Our Lord scourged for our sins? One wasn’t enough for the depth of His love.
Three times because all sin is so evil, we strike our breast and acknowledge our sins. We’re simple things, humans. Say it three times while striking your breast and you’ll “get it”. One didn’t seem to be enough for centuries.
Hey, how about the Kyrie. Three seemed too much for the innovators, but two? Come on, one isn’t enough? How about we just say it once!
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Rich_C
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There are no “deviant liturgical customs” in the OF missal, as I’ve tried to say.
You may not like the new translation of the OF, but nonetheless, most of the “changes” were really approved by Pope Paul VI (the pope of Vatican II) himself, and simply edited out in the previous English translated. The new translation restored (for English speakers) what popes had been praying all along (in the Latin…mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpe).
I think the new OF translation is great, even though I rarely hear it.
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TimothyH
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Those were the words he chose to use, even in the very title of the piece.
You stating that something was meant which was not written changes neither what was written nor its meaning.
If a professor, a graduate of Thomas Aquinas College, a man who holds a Phd in philosophy from Catholic University of America wanted to speak about a “Catholic Revolution”, he would have done so. What in the world the picture of Pope Bennedict XVI looking forlorn (which the author posted on the original publication of the blog post) has to do with anything is beyond me.
ccwatershed.org/blog/2013/apr/18/correcting-deviant-liturgical-customs/
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ProVobis
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By this logic why have to go to Mass 52-some times a year?
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Rich_C
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Anyway, to get myself back on topic…
Another thing I did try to do to help encourage the best possible liturgy was, last year I told priests after Mass how much I liked the new translations. I knew they were getting a lot of negative feedback and I wanted to encourage them. I didn’t want them to feel they had a thankless job, er vocation.
Even now, when I see a priest lead the people very devoutedly at Mass (EF or OF) I try to make sure I shake his hand tell him, “beautiful Mass, father.”
It’s like saying “keep it up” without actually saying it.
Another thing I did try to do to help encourage the best possible liturgy was, last year I told priests after Mass how much I liked the new translations. I knew they were getting a lot of negative feedback and I wanted to encourage them. I didn’t want them to feel they had a thankless job, er vocation.
Even now, when I see a priest lead the people very devoutedly at Mass (EF or OF) I try to make sure I shake his hand tell him, “beautiful Mass, father.”
It’s like saying “keep it up” without actually saying it.
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Rich_C
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No, you quoted the words “Great Schism;” that’s what I said was a poor choice of words.
He explicitedly states that the “Great Schism” refers to living with the “hermenutic of rupture” that Pope Benedict condemned, so though I think his words were too strong, on second reading his meaning is undoubedly clear and seems perfectly in line with recent papal teachings.
I’m taking him at his word.
I would like to reply to you with your own words:
Read it a second time. I think you’ll see that he’s never denigrated the OF like you suggest.
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jwinch2
Guest
Agreed. That is a good way to go. Several months back, a few of our parishioners met with our pastor to ask about some things we could potentially do in the liturgy. He had recently switched some Mass times around, so it seemed like an opportune time to initiate some other changes.
We approached him with a proposal about working to incorporate some more traditional hymns, use of the propers and antiphons, and occasionally doing the responses in Latin or Greek. Thankfully, he was very receptive and we have since been making slow progress towards the implementation of these things.
Initially, he received some major flack from some on the liturgy committee and the pastoral council. Thankfully, he stuck to his decision and we are moving things in a positive direction. He has always done his part at making the Mass reverent (no abuses, very solemn, silent times in the Mass, etc.) however the music, etc. hasn’t always been the same. I am in the process of writing a catechetical letter to give to our pastor which he will then modify as he sees fit, to give to the committees and the parish to help them understand why we are doing what we are doing. He was very open to that when I asked him if it would be helpful. Archbishop Sample wrote a fantastic letter a while back on Sacred Music, which he kindly gave me permission to use in the process of writing the letter for our parish, so thanks to Archbishop Sample for his kindness in that regard. Here is the original in case anyone is interested: dioceseofmarquette.org/UserFiles/Bishop/PastoralLetter-RejoiceInTheLordAlways.pdf
One of the things which also helped our position is that we are only asking to change 1 of our 3 weekend Masses. This way, those who prefer a less traditional Mass will still have two options each weekend for Mass. In short, we aren’t taking anything away from anyone, merely trying to give those who prefer a more traditional Mass in keeping with Church preferences, a viable option.
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Lucky7
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There is one particular priest that I really need to do this for. In about a month, my husband and I are going to make a switch to his parish. His OF masses are reverent and he also offers the Latin mass once per month.
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jwinch2
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No kidding. I’m pretty sure some of the contributors for that blog would be surprised to find themselves labeled as traditionalists.The New Liturgical Movement ? A trad rant ?
There are so many contributors on that blog that are in full communion with Rome, it’s ridiculous to label the blog as anything but orthodox. It’s a great site.
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Rich_C
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Jason, that’s a model effort on your all’s part. I skimmed the letter and thought it was great. I had to laugh that “Archbishop Sample” wrote the template…did anyone catch that? LOL.
I like that your priest intends to give catechesis about the changes. That’s so important.
I also like that in the letter, musicians who’ve hitherto played non-traditional music aren’t made to feel bad. Liturgical renewal may be painful but it’s a good reminder that good leadership can make it so much easier.
Thanks for sharing. I am so happy with my parish but if I wasn’t I’d take a cue from you on how to help improve it.
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codefro
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NLM has helped me so much in my faith. Quite honestly, I was a little shakey on the OF liturgy when I was confirmed Catholic. I had previously been Anglo-Catholic. High Church Anglicans have a “high view” of liturgy, and the parish I was confirmed in did not express a similar view in the way it was when I was Anglican. Due to NLM I was able to see how other parishes have their liturgies and to realize that my shakeyness was in that particular parish, and not in other Catholic parishes. There are so many beautiful churches and reverent masses out there- I am grateful NLM decides to post pictures of those liturgies and to help bring more to worship in both the OF and EF’s of the Mass.
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Rich_C
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I discovered the New Liturgical Movement website years ago and it inspired me to keep looking for Masses that reflected the prayerfulness that I read about in books on the Mass. Great site.NLM has helped me so much in my faith. Quite honestly, I was a little shakey on the OF liturgy when I was confirmed Catholic. I had previously been Anglo-Catholic. High Church Anglicans have a “high view” of liturgy, and the parish I was confirmed in did not express a similar view in the way it was when I was Anglican. Due to NLM I was able to see how other parishes have their liturgies and to realize that my shakeyness was in that particular parish, and not in other Catholic parishes. There are so many beautiful churches and reverent masses out there- I am grateful NLM decides to post pictures of those liturgies and to help bring more to worship in both the OF and EF’s of the Mass.
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jwinch2
Guest
Just as clarification in case I was not clear, the link I posted was Archbishop Sample’s letter, not my own. I am using his letter as a model (with permission) to write one for our pastor, which will be much shorter and probably less detailed. I am taking information which was compiled so well in the Archbishops’s letter along with information from other sources to put together something that our pastor can then modify as he sees fit before sending it out.
As for the rest, thanks for the kind comments. We are hopeful that things will come together. I cannot help but wish it would go faster, but our pastor likes to take things slow and introduce change a bit at a time.
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jwinch2
Guest
Its a fantastic resource. The Adoremus Society, founded by Fr. Fessio, SJ (co-founder of Ignatius Press) is excellent also. adoremus.org/NLM has helped me so much in my faith. Quite honestly, I was a little shakey on the OF liturgy when I was confirmed Catholic. I had previously been Anglo-Catholic. High Church Anglicans have a “high view” of liturgy, and the parish I was confirmed in did not express a similar view in the way it was when I was Anglican. Due to NLM I was able to see how other parishes have their liturgies and to realize that my shakeyness was in that particular parish, and not in other Catholic parishes. There are so many beautiful churches and reverent masses out there- I am grateful NLM decides to post pictures of those liturgies and to help bring more to worship in both the OF and EF’s of the Mass.
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Rich_C
Guest
Thanks for the clarification. I still see the humor in it.
I would feel exactly the same in your shoes (for guys like us, good things can never come soon enough, right?), but I’m sure your priest has the right approach.
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codefro
Guest
Interesting how the stereotype is Jesuits do not care about liturgy, and then there are priests like Father Fessio.
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