On undocumented immigrants

[Appealing_Woman]

Thanks, Claire. I read the above NYT report that is available on Google. Very enlightening.

I still need to learn what social services are provided to illegal immigrants by the government as compared to by churches and charities. But, I am fairly sure that there are not the many American citizens doing without a job BECAUSE that job is filled by an illegal immigrant.

I worked as a Community Liaison for a large school district several years ago. The school would send me immigrant families whose children had no shoes, clothes, etc. No one asked if they were here legally or not. They were referred to social services, including government agencies, who checked out their homes to see if they had food, bedding, etc. I spoke with these families, they did not want handouts, they wanted jobs. However, the school would not let the children come back unless the family had gone through the referral process and received aide–it was policy. Some would get stuck in the welfare trap because they were told they could not receive aide and work and the school wanted the kids to have proper shoes, clothing, school supplies, etc. to let the kids back in school. The fathers who worked would have no transportation to go to work, so they were often exploited by people trying to make a buck and charged high weekly rates for rides or for rent.

They were here trying to make money to send home and to make a better life for thier family. Having been a single mother, I can relate to that. I know the Mexican government is broken and their people are not our problem, But our government needs to address this issue and take proper steps to reform the system.

 

[St_Francis]

I still need to learn what social services are provided to illegal immigrants by the government as compared to by churches and charities. But, I am fairly sure that there are not the many American citizens doing without a job BECAUSE that job is filled by an illegal immigrant.

The issue of people’s going without jobs is a tricky one. For example, I used to live in a place where is a lot of seasonal and pick-up work. If someone needed to go on welfare for part of the year, it was then difficult for them to work doing the seasonal or pick-up work as that would endanger part of their government aid, like health insurance or housing. So there are now a lot of people from other countries (some legal, some illegal) working in that area because they don’t have stuff like that preventing them from working.

A lot of the people who used to do that seasonal work or other low-level work were college students, but now those receiving grants and/or student loans based on family income cannot work because it would reduce or endanger those.

So, the fact that there are “jobs that Americans won’t take” is due to government rules which impact people who are most likely to need those types of jobs.

I worked as a Community Liaison for a large school district several years ago. The school would send me immigrant families whose children had no shoes, clothes, etc. No one asked if they were here legally or not. They were referred to social services, including government agencies, who checked out their homes to see if they had food, bedding, etc. I spoke with these families, they did not want handouts, they wanted jobs. However, the school would not let the children come back unless the family had gone through the referral process and received aide–it was policy. Some would get stuck in the welfare trap because they were told they could not receive aide and work and the school wanted the kids to have proper shoes, clothing, school supplies, etc. to let the kids back in school. The fathers who worked would have no transportation to go to work, so they were often exploited by people trying to make a buck and charged high weekly rates for rides or for rent.

I was under the impression that Social Services is not allowed to put people on their rolls who are here illegally? Or did this apply because one or more or all the children had been born here?

… But our government needs to address this issue and take proper steps to reform the system.

That’s for sure!!!

 

[Claire_from_DE]

GratefulFred;6670329:

Thanks, Claire. I read the above NYT report that is available on Google. Very enlightening.

I still need to learn what social services are provided to illegal immigrants by the government as compared to by churches and charities. But, I am fairly sure that there are not the many American citizens doing without a job BECAUSE that job is filled by an illegal immigrant.

I worked as a Community Liaison for a large school district several years ago. The school would send me immigrant families whose children had no shoes, clothes, etc. No one asked if they were here legally or not. They were referred to social services, including government agencies, who checked out their homes to see if they had food, bedding, etc. I spoke with these families, they did not want handouts, they wanted jobs. However, the school would not let the children come back unless the family had gone through the referral process and received aide–it was policy. Some would get stuck in the welfare trap because they were told they could not receive aide and work and the school wanted the kids to have proper shoes, clothing, school supplies, etc. to let the kids back in school. The fathers who worked would have no transportation to go to work, so they were often exploited by people trying to make a buck and charged high weekly rates for rides or for rent.

They were here trying to make money to send home and to make a better life for thier family. Having been a single mother, I can relate to that. I know the Mexican government is broken

and their people are not our problem, But our government needs to address this issue and take proper steps to reform the system.

And, since we are Catholics, we should at least consider what the American bishops have to say on this issue. I also feel that the border states should not have to be the ones most affected but I don’t know how this could be achieved. Most of the immigrants I have met in my part of Delaware seem to come from Guatemala and to be hard working and decent people. I’d like to see them settle here and be successful. The following is taken from a local church bulletin:

IMMIGRATION: OUR BISHOPS SPEAK

The following summary of the principles of our Church’s social teaching regarding immigration forms the basis of the very detailed analysis of the question that the Conferences of Bishops of the United States and Mexico published jointly in January of 2003. In view of our Bishops’ renewed push for the rights of immigrants, and of the postcard campaign in which you will be invited to join weekend after next, I thought it might be good to repeat this statement of principles that we ran in this space several months ago.

I. Persons have the right to find opportunities in their homeland.
All persons have the right to find in their own countries the economic, political, and social opportunities to live in dignity and achieve a full life through the use of their God-given gifts. In this context, work that provides a just, living wage is a basic human need.

II. Persons have the right to migrate to support themselves and their families.
The Church recognizes that all the goods of the earth belong to all people. HYPERLINK “http://www.usccb.org/mrs/stranger.shtml” \l “sup15#sup15” (Pope Paul VI, Pastoralis Migratorium Cura, 7) When persons cannot find employment in their country of origin to support themselves and their families, they have a right to find work elsewhere in order to survive. Sovereign nations should provide ways to accommodate this right.

III. Sovereign nations have the right to control their borders.
The Church recognizes the right of sovereign nations to control their territories but rejects such control when it is exerted merely for the purpose of acquiring additional wealth. More powerful economic nations, which have the ability to protect and feed their residents, have a stronger obligation to accommodate migration flows.

IV. Refugees and asylum seekers should be afforded protection. 
Those who flee wars and persecution should be protected by the global community. This requires, at a minimum, that migrants have a right to claim refugee status without incarceration and to have their claims fully considered by a competent authority
.
V. The human dignity and human rights of undocumented migrants should be respected.
Regardless of their legal status, migrants, like all persons, possess inherent human dignity that should be respected. Often they are subject to punitive laws and harsh treatment from enforcement officers from both receiving and transit countries. Government policies that respect the basic human rights of the undocumented are necessary.

 

[Appealing_Woman]

I was under the impression that Social Services is not allowed to put people on their rolls who are here illegally? Or did this apply because one or more or all the children had been born here?

None of the paperwork from the school required a verification of legal residency. It’s possible some of the children were citizens, however, many of these families were new arrivals and their children were of school age, so it seems unlikely. Much of the aide came from faith-based organzations (Catholic Charities, Church-sponsored food pantries, etc.). But families were also processed through the Dept.of Health and Human Services. I assume they had their own verification process.

 

[GratefulFred]

Appealing Woman;6674514:

And, since we are Catholics, we should at least consider what the American bishops have to say on this issue.

***A Pastoral Letter Concerning Migration ***

from the Catholic Bishops of Mexico and the United States

January 2003

I. **Persons have the right to find opportunities in their homeland.**
All persons have the right to find in their own countries the economic, political, and social opportunities to live in dignity and achieve a full life through the use of their God-given gifts. In this context, work that provides a just, living wage is a basic human need.

II. Persons have the right to migrate to support themselves and their families.
The Church recognizes that all the goods of the earth belong to all people. When persons cannot find employment in their country of origin to support themselves and their families, they have a right to find work elsewhere in order to survive. Sovereign nations should provide ways to accommodate this right.

III. **Sovereign nations have the right to control their borders.**
The Church recognizes the right of sovereign nations to control their territories but rejects such control when it is exerted merely for the purpose of acquiring additional wealth. More powerful economic nations, which have the ability to protect and feed their residents, have a stronger obligation to accommodate migration flows.

IV. Refugees and asylum seekers should be afforded protection. 
. . .

V. **The human dignity and human rights of undocumented migrants should be respected. **Regardless of their legal status, migrants, like all persons, possess inherent human dignity that should be respected. Often they are subject to punitive laws and harsh treatment from enforcement officers from both receiving and transit countries. Government policies that respect the basic human rights of the undocumented are necessary.

Claire’s response to Appealing Woman does come from the Bishops’ Pastoral Letter of January 2003.

I fully support rights I and V above. IV does not apply. It is Right II and III that is causing so much angst.

Every Right creates a Responsibility. I see very little in the News about what citizens in Mexico are doing to exercise Right I. I see very little about what the US government is doing to pressure Mexico to do much, much better in providing education and jobs for their citizens. But I do see that Mexico is fighting a horrible war with the drug lords who are in big business primarily because too many Americans want drugs. Drugs won’t make us better Americans, nor will making drugs legal.

The Right to migrate carries a responsibility to migrate LEGALLY. Without order there is chaos. America’s ability to absorb immigrants is NOT unlimited. The US and the States are in deep debt. US unemployment is running 9 to 12%, more than double the normal of 4 to 5%. I don’t see how the new Arizona law to try to better control illegal immigration (because the Feds are not doing it) is for the purpose of Arizona acquiring additional wealth. It seems clear the purpose is to restore order and avoid going bankrupt.

 

[BBaller]

See my position is that I have compassion for these people. I don’t blame them. I think the fault lies in both the Mexican and American govt.

I don’t blame them either, but i also don’t condone their breaking the law to illegally enter.

The borders were not guarded and many, millions, were allowed to cross.

They were not “allowed to cross.” They did so illegally, whether in remote areas, under cover of darkness, solo, in groups, self-guided, using a coyote, etc. They gained entry by sneaking across in some form or fashion. Or they are here as overstays or out of status, but that’s for another discussion.

American’s hired illegals that were cheap labors, therefore, giving them jobs and making it possible for them to tell their friends that they should come to America for jobs. I know they come for a better life and I know they should do it the legal way, but many get desperate and can’t wait because they are starving.

So that justifies my jumping to the front of the line whenever I don’t feel like doing something the right way. I know I’ll get skewered for this one, but this does not justify their illegal entries.

Recently, my FIL sent me an email, for I get two to three of them from him daily about the Mexicans, and it showed pictures of dirty clothes, dirty diapers and food lying around on a pathway somewhere in Arizona and apparently that is where many illegals lived. That is not living and that is being homeless.

What you saw was not where they lived. What you saw is known as a “lay up spot” which is an area a group (or groups) will lay up and rest, wait for the “coast to clear,” eat, or something similar.

I know it is morally wrong to steal, but maybe some steal food to feed their families. To those that rape or kidnap, I say arrest them and send them back to Mexican, they don’t need to be in our jails or for us paying for a trial. But we can’t say that they are all criminals.

What happens when we send them back to Mexico (if they’re Mexican, as not all illegal aliens are Mexican)? Oftentimes they illegally come back to the US. Just because they are deported, doesn’t mean they won’t come back. They are, after all, criminals. As for “we can’t say that they are all criminals”, by definition/description, they are criminals because the broke the law. By being here illegally, they have broken the law, which means they are criminals.

That is like saying that all blacks are bad or in prison. I use to hear bigets say that. That is generalizing them all. Yes, they need to be here legally, but there is so many of them now and we, or the govt allowed it to happen for so long, now what are they going to do about it now? It is a mess. We have children who are born here and American but their parents are illegals. Are we going to send their parents back to Mexico and separate the family? Especially it the family has children who are not teenagers and lived here most their lives. It is not as easy as saying, “Send them all back to Mexico.” I am not a democrat, but I do believe that we can’t just send them all back to Mexico. Something else has to be done. Someone else wrote in this thread that someone convinced him of amnesty and that is where I am leaning too and I am a Republican. This is bigger than your political party, these are human beings we are talking about and before I send out any emails that speak against them, I want to check out all the facts.

I don’t have time to address each assertion/question in this portion, but Reagan’s 1986 amnesty was intended as a one-time only fix to our immigration problem. You see how well that worked out for us!

 

[BBaller]

To the person who wrote about the neighbors who have lived here for 9 years and don’t speak English but their daughter does, I will say this. I met a teacher who was a Spanish teacher, or who teaches Spanish in High School and she is not hispanic. She told me that for a person to learn a language of a country and become fluent, it can take up to 10 years. I am sure this couples knows some English and understands it, especially living here for 9 years, but are afraid to speak it. When my cousins moved here from Puerto Rico their English was terrible. It was broken and hard to understand and they were afraid to speak it, but knew how to. They just had a hard time choosing the correct word. Imagine your thinking is in Spanish and you have to translate it into English before it comes out of your mouth. I remember my cousin always wanting me to translate for him, but I told him that his English will get better with practice and made him speak it. He was afraid that people would make fun of him. No one did of course, but that was his thought. He now speaks fluent English, but it took him 15 years. It took my mom, 25 years and she still has a hard time, for each person is different and please for God’s sake don’t expect a 80 year old person to learn English, they are old and they just won’t. So they have translators. Have mercy on them for they are the face of Christ! I say this for I had a little old woman lost one time and I had to translate for her and help her find her doctor’s office. We got into the elevator and she was saying how I was an angel sent by God to help her and there was a man in there and he said, “Can you speak English for you are in America, you know.” I didn’t even address his arrogant remark and thank God this little old woman didn’t understand and she was even telling me what a handsome young man he was in Spanish. She was a kind soul. After she exited the elevator, he asked me why did I continue to speak Spanish and I told him why, but he continued to say that this was America and the old woman needed to learn English. Sad huh? He reminds me of my FIL. He sent me an email that said, “Press one for English and if you don’t know English, go back to your country until you do.” Like I said, it takes time to learn a language. Give them time. For those who refuse to learn the language, shame on them!

I agree that it takes time to learn a foreign language, but I learned passable Spanish (as an adult) in 2 hours a day, 2-4 days a week, over the course of 4 1/2 months. If someone really has the desire, some of the language can be learned. I get tired of the constant kowtowing to Spanish-speakers. We have election ballots printed in Spanish! Spanish! Only US Citizens can vote. To become a citizen, one must pass an English test. What’s the reasoning then, to have Spanish ballots? Why not Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, Urdu, Pashtu, French, Portugese, etc?

I am not anti-immigration. I believe we all have benefitted from the diverseness of cultures in the US. I do not support or favor or coddle or condone illegal immigration. There are workable solutions, but none of the politicians (on either side) want to “man up” and take the necessary steps to deal with the issue effectively. By being so politically correct and not wanting to offend anyone, I’m offended!

 

[nana3]

I agree that it takes time to learn a foreign language, but I learned passable Spanish (as an adult) in 2 hours a day, 2-4 days a week, over the course of 4 1/2 months. If someone really has the desire, some of the language can be learned. I get tired of the constant kowtowing to Spanish-speakers. We have election ballots printed in Spanish! Spanish! Only US Citizens can vote. To become a citizen, one must pass an English test. What’s the reasoning then, to have Spanish ballots? Why not Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, Urdu, Pashtu, French, Portugese, etc?

I am not anti-immigration. I believe we all have benefitted from the diverseness of cultures in the US. I do not support or favor or coddle or condone illegal immigration. There are workable solutions, but none of the politicians (on either side) want to “man up” and take the necessary steps to deal with the issue effectively. By being so politically correct and not wanting to offend anyone, I’m offended!

I think the reason they have Spanish is due to the huge population that speaks Spanish in this country of ours. That is not just the Mexicans, but Puerto Ricans, Venezulean, and so on. The Hispanic populations is very large. Here where I live, in Orlando, we have Spanish billboards and radio stations, and restaurants. We also have many Vietmanese restaurants and signs too. When I visited Europe, some of the menu’s were in three different languages, English being one of them. Thank God they did have English or we would not understand. So other countries also have their “things” in English for us English speaking people for we are a large population of the world. Is it wrong for Germany to have English on their menu? Is it wrong to see English billboards in Germany or other countries where it is not the main language? No, they do it so that we can understand. The same with Spanish in this country. Do they need to do it? No, whoever is paying for the billboard or the translation on whatever object are the ones choosing to do so. I don’t think that the Hispanic community as a whole got together and demanded that they put Spanish on the ballets. I just get tired of all this bashing of the Spanish language and “Welcome to America and now speak English.” Well, when I was in other countries, they never said, “Welcome to Germany, now speak German” …or Italian"… etc.

I once met a man in Italy who followed me to my hotel as I was walking. I was a tourist with my college group. I turned around and told him to stop following me in English, not Italian and he understood and spoke English. We got to talking and he even spoke Spanish as well. He asked me if I was an American and I told him yes. He said he didn’t like Americans to much and I asked why. Now these are his words and not mine. He told me because they were arrogant and expected everyone to learn English, but they don’t know any other language but one. He was impressed that I knew two languages and said that must be rare in America. I told him not really that many in American speak more than one language, but he said the majority just speak English. I just said yes to him. I did ask him not to judge all Americans on the language issue, but he said he had more issues he could not go into. He left after that. He was an interesting man in his forty’s and I was in my early 20’s. That is just one example.

 

[iamrefreshed]

1. Masively increase the numbers of LEGAL immigrants allowed from Central and South America. No skill or famly restriction, just basic background check and green card handed out. The current quota for such people is a national disgrace and injustice.
   .

Amen to that. It is a national disgrace and spits in the eyes of what our country is all about.

 

[nana3]

I beg of all of you to watch if you can the Installation of the Archbishop Thomas Wenski in Miami. It will be on again at midnight on EWTN. If you don’t want to watch the whole Mass, listen to his homily at least. He talks about immigration and humanity and seeing each person not as a problem, but as a human soul. The way he feels is the way I feel. He even addresses the language issue. He spoke in English, Spanish, the Haitian language and he also speaks Polish, but didn’t address us in that language. He truly is a holy Bishop. If you get a chance, listen to his homily. As Catholics and as humans, this is how we should all feel in this great country we live in. That time is Eastern time.

 

[vz71]

IMMIGRATION: Myths vs. Facts

In view of our participation next weekend in the renewed efforts of our Conference of Bishops to secure immigrant rights, it might be good to review some commonly held myths and counter them with facts.

Myth: Immigrants don’t want to learn English
Fact: The development of English proficiency among non-English speaking immigrants today mirrors that of Nineteenth and early Twentieth century immigration, when masses of Italian, German, and Eastern European immigrants came to America. While first generation, non-English speaking immigrants predictably have lower rates of English proficiency than native speakers, 91% of second generation immigrants are fluent or near fluent English speakers. By the third generation, 97% speak English fluently or near fluently. (Locally, county-sponsored classes in English as a second language are the most frequent weekday users of our facilities.)
(Source: Shirin Hakimzadeh and D’Vera Cohn, “English Usage Among Hispanics in the United States,” Pew Hispanic Forum, Dec. 6, 2007;.Janet Murguia and Cecilia Muñoz, “From Immigrant to Citizen,” The American Prospect (Oct. 23, 2005)

Since we are, in fact, discussing illegal aliens, I have to question this.
It seems this stat is specific to legal immigration and does not pertain at all to illegal.

Myth: Immigrants Don’t Pay Taxes
Fact: Even among the undocumented, the majority of immigrants pay taxes. Between one half and three quarters of undocumented immigrants pay state and federal taxes. They also contribute to Medicare and provide as much as 7 billion dollars a year to the Social Security Fund. Further still, undocumented workers pay sales taxes where applicable and property taxes—directly if they own and indirectly if they rent.
(Source: Immigration Policy Center, “Undocumented Immigrants as Taxpayers,” (November 2007); Eduardo Porter” Illegal Immigrants are Bolstering Social Security with Billions,” New York Times, (April 5, 2005),

Given how few legal Americans pay taxes, this number seems skewed.

Myth: Immigrants Increase the Crime rate
Fact: Recent research has shown that immigrant communities do not increase the crime rate and that immigrants commit fewer crimes than native born Americans. While the undocumented immigrant population doubled from 1994 to 2005, violent crime dropped by 34% and property crimes decreased by 32%. Furthermore, Harvard sociologist Robert Sampson has found that first generation immigrants are 45% less likely to commit violent crimes than Americanized, third generation immigrant descendants.
(Source: Immigration Policy Center, “Immigrants and Crime: Are They Connected?” December, 2007; Robert Sampson, “Open Doors Don’t Invite Criminals,” The New York Times, March 11, 2006, A15; Executive Office of the President: Council of Economic Advisors, “Immigration’s Economic Impact,” June 20, 2007.)

Now I feel someone here needs to call BS here.
Every illegal alien increases crime.
At the very least their presence in this country is a violation of the law.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I beg of all of you to watch if you can the Installation of the Archbishop Thomas Wenski in Miami. It will be on again at midnight on EWTN. If you don’t want to watch the whole Mass, listen to his homily at least. He talks about immigration and humanity and seeing each person not as a problem, but as a human soul. The way he feels is the way I feel. He even addresses the language issue. He spoke in English, Spanish, the Haitian language and he also speaks Polish, but didn’t address us in that language. He truly is a holy Bishop. If you get a chance, listen to his homily. As Catholics and as humans, this is how we should all feel in this great country we live in. That time is Eastern time.

I’m in Orlando too. I will miss him!

 

[bbarrick8383]

He talks about immigration and humanity and seeing each person not as a problem, but as a human soul.

That’s great. But illegal immigration is a problem. There are over 10 million human soul’s who came here illegally. Some are causing problems, some are not. Some problems are taking up jobs, some problems are murder. We have enough problems we need to deal with here in our country and apparently they have many problems they need to deal with in theirs.

So the way I look at it, it is in their best interest to not run away from their problems. Stay and fix them. 100 million people live in Mexico, I don’t see why the illegals from Mexico can not live there as well.

 

[BBaller]

I think the reason they have Spanish is due to the huge population that speaks Spanish in this country of ours. That is not just the Mexicans, but Puerto Ricans, Venezulean, and so on. The Hispanic populations is very large. Here where I live, in Orlando, we have Spanish billboards and radio stations, and restaurants. We also have many Vietmanese restaurants and signs too. When I visited Europe, some of the menu’s were in three different languages, English being one of them. Thank God they did have English or we would not understand. So other countries also have their “things” in English for us English speaking people for we are a large population of the world. Is it wrong for Germany to have English on their menu? Is it wrong to see English billboards in Germany or other countries where it is not the main language? No, they do it so that we can understand. The same with Spanish in this country. Do they need to do it?

Whatever advertisers and business owners do, that’s their business. No, it’s not “wrong” for any other countries to have English on their menus, billboards, restrooms, hotels, etc. What I do think is wrong is having election ballots in languages other than English. Does the fact that other countries have multiple languages on their menus make those countries better than the US? See many of those English signs in Mexico? I think we as a society are very accepting of illegal immigration…so much so that we are hurting ourselves.

And for clarification, I do look at illegal aliens as individuals. I have interacted with tens of thousands of them, individually. However, illegal immigration is an epidemic. Why not ask Mexico to take care of the problems in their country so that their people won’t want to leave? Ever been to Mexico’s southern border? They protect that border (by protect, I mean they try to keep people from illegally crossing), why not their northern border?
(These questions, of course, were all rhetorical.)

 

[Tigg]

I beg of all of you to watch if you can the Installation of the Archbishop Thomas Wenski in Miami.

I was resurrecting this somewhat dated thread so I could post an article I found written by a Catholic priest on “undocumented immigrants” when my eye caught your post about Bishop Wenski.

It seems not everyone would agree with your assessment:

During this year (2008,) Bishop Wenski has planned a triple assault against the orthodox teachings of our Roman Catholic Church under the banners of the following Diocesan programs:

catholicmediacoalition.org/authoritarian_state_god.htm

He has been quoted as saying that the current enforcement-only approach to illegal immigration is ineffective and contrary to national interests. (I wholeheartedly disagree with this political statement.) Given his comments and the actions in the above link, it throws my Catholic heart into a spin. I’m just saying we all need to carefully research this issue of illegal immigration as it relates to our true faith.

 

[nana3]

I was resurrecting this somewhat dated thread so I could post an article I found written by a Catholic priest on “undocumented immigrants” when my eye caught your post about Bishop Wenski.

It seems not everyone would agree with your assessment:

He has been quoted as saying that the current enforcement-only approach to illegal immigration is ineffective and contrary to national interests. (I wholeheartedly disagree with this political statement.) Given his comments and the actions in the above link, it throws my Catholic heart into a spin. I’m just saying we all need to carefully research this issue of illegal immigration as it relates to our true faith.

I read the article and I will be honest, I don’t understand most of it. I will admit that the Orlando Diocese is a very liberal diocese, but that is changing in so many churches. Bishop Wenski tried very hard to change that. He knew about that nun that is mentioned in the article. He kept her on staff to keep an eye on her. I know of a priest who worked side by side with the Bishop and this priest is Orthodox. When Bishop Wenski came to Orlando, he saw that it was completely liberal and he had to slowly bring it back to the Churches true Faith and teaching. There were many who fought him. There are now several Orthodox Catholic churches in our dioceses. I go to one of them and there are more. Bishop Wenski is the one who wanted to institute a Latin Tridentine Mass and did so, and it is at our parish. There was one parish, the most liberal one so far, that stands during the consecration and Bishop Wenski wrote to all Pastors telling them that he wants everyone to knee if there are kneelers during the consecration of the Mass. This one liberal pastor, who I knew for I use to belong to that parish when I was single and didn’t know my faith as well, was so angry that the Bishop would insist on that. The Bishop also told all Pastor to change the glass chalice they were using to a metal one. There are many more changes that I am unaware about I am sure. I did not understand what is wrong with the Alive in Christ program and I wish I did for I donate to that.

I have heard this Bishop speak on more than one occassion and he just doesn’t sound liberal. Read his homily that he gave at his Installation. Some of it is in Spanish and Creole, but then he speaks in English again. Read it all and then see what you think of this man.

miamiarch.org/ip.asp?op=Article_105281565895

 

[tafan]

Tigg, what are the parts of our current immigration policy that make it so effective?

 

[Tigg]

nana3:

I’m glad your bishop spoke about relativism in his homily and I pray your diocese will return to orthodoxy. We too, live in an area that has been beseiged by church liberalism for over 30 years and those who have been here their entire lives tell us they have seen a huge loss of faith. A new shepherd was appointed to us 7 months ago and we are beginning to see some change, although we know true reform will take time.

I try to post on all these threads regarding immigration because there is so much deception being promulgated via certain social justice groups and thru other means. Researching the individuals who start these programs, you will begin to see that most of them are dissidents with the goal of destroying a hierarchical Church. And finally, there are those clerics who are beginning to speak out against illegal immigration. What is paramount is the dignity of the individual, and of course, we do have an obligation to the poor and oppressed, but that does not give license to ignore other fundamental principles as outlined by earlier popes in prior social encyclicals. All I’m saying is that much discernment is needed because Marxist elements have once again crept in that are touting liberation theology. It is a humanistic approach to helping the poor which ignores the Mission of the Catholic Church and the spiritual well-being of immigrants. It is purely political.

For a different perspective, here are some links for thought and research. If you do a search on this forum, you will find other useful information that may surprise you.

brownpelicanla.com/archives/27462

youtube.com/watch?v=YMaNa1K8lJo

 

[Tigg]

I forgot to mention one thing in my previous post…the Breaker of Heresy and Protector of the True Faith is our Blessed Mother. Those who have recourse to her will begin to see what’s happening in the Church with new spiritual eyes. God bless you all!

 

[nana3]

I forgot to mention one thing in my previous post…the Breaker of Heresy and Protector of the True Faith is our Blessed Mother. Those who have recourse to her will begin to see what’s happening in the Church with new spiritual eyes. God bless you all!

I just wanted to say thank you for your words of TRUTH! Also I wanted to clarify something about Bishop Wenski. I have mentioned this article in the Orlando Truth to my homeschooling group for I was and am unfamiliar with the Orlando Truth. They have had many talks with the Bishop himself about this newspaper and this is what he told the Orlando Truth himself:

Bishop Wenski is quite aware of this publication, and has rebuked them, *"You
claim the competence to make determinations of orthodoxy or orthopraxy
without any basis to do so. As I have warned you before, your
scandalous actions endanger your soul and have you flirting with
schism (breaking unity with the successor of Peter and the bishops in
union with him). Sincerely in Christ, Bishop Wenski * (from Orlando
Truth)

Our Spiritual Advisor of our homeschooling group wrote this:

Dear Catholic Home Educators,

"To Sacred Heart of Jesus Home Educators,

I would be pleased to comment on the Orlando Truth, I will share with you what I shared with the priests of the Diocese of Orlando two years ago when I spoke publicly about the Orlando Truth.

“The Orlando Truth is an evil outgrowth of a few people who believe they can defame and castigate anyone they wish without consequences. When we read the Orlando Truth or speak of it we encourage that evil and give it support. The greatest way to stop evil is to consider it dead to us. Excommunicate! It is not a part of us and it is dead to us.”
I would be shocked if anyone from this group would even consider supporting such an evil venture. I would be shocked if that were the case."

Fr. XXXX ( I will keep his name private)

So as you can see the Orlando Truth does not speak the truth at all and is liberal itself. Bishop Wenski tried to slowly get out the liberalism in our diocese. He was and is orthodox.