On what date do we celebrate the conception of Jesus?

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To be extra clear, I don’t mean the Immaculate Conception of Mary (Dec 8), but the virginal conception of Jesus:
“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.” (Luke 1:35) which takes place about 9 months before His birth.

The reason I am asking is because I found in the encyclopedia Wikipedia that the Conception of Jesus (or His Incarnation) is celebrated on Christmas day:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation

Is this true, or does the Church has a special day to differentiate the conception (incarnation of the Word of God) to the birth of Jesus?

Thanks and God bless 🙂
 
Please remember that wikipedia is NOT the best resource tool. It is edited by its USERS, who can be knowledgeable, but who can also be quite, quite wrong. As noted above, the conception of Jesus is celebrated on March 25, the Feast of the Annunciation. Think about it. If Christmas is December 25, the CONCEPTION took place 9 months ago–March 25.

I tend to cringe whenever I see wikipedia used as the “source” or “reference”, ESPECIALLY when it is used alone. To me, citing wikipedia alone on a topic is the equivalent of citing “Uncle Andy told me” or “the guys down at the gas station said. . .”–in any given situation, Uncle Andy or “the guys” might have all, or much, or SOME, of the facts right. . .but if you were doing a college reseach paper, would you cite Uncle Andy or the Encyclopedia Brittanica if you wanted a chance for an “A”?
 
Tantum ergo:
I tend to cringe whenever I see wikipedia used as the “source” or “reference”, ESPECIALLY when it is used alone. To me, citing wikipedia alone on a topic is the equivalent of citing “Uncle Andy told me” or “the guys down at the gas station said. . .”–in any given situation, Uncle Andy or “the guys” might have all, or much, or SOME, of the facts right. . .but if you were doing a college reseach paper, would you cite Uncle Andy or the Encyclopedia Brittanica if you wanted a chance for an “A”?
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👍 I agree, I have seen many people post from there, but after reading some articles I said this couldnt be credible. There are plenty of good things out there like newadvent.com or catholic.com
When comparing wiki, I would rather take Uncle Andy:eek:

(We mean no offense IesusDeus)
 
OK.

I did not realize that wikipedia was an “open” encyclopedia, so thanks for letting me know.

To answer your question I am not writing a school paper; you are on the right track as I am writing a paper on the incarnation. (I just started, and see where it takes me.) I chose the subject myself (after a paper on the Eucharist).

In my eyes, I see the incarnation of the Word of God (conception) as more important than the birth of Jesus. The birth of Jesus is a small miracle by itself, but the great miracle is the conception of Jesus in the Virgin Mary.
Also the conception is the founding moment.

I wonder why the church did not make it a day of obligation?
Anyway, I do not want to sound like I am criticizing, just asking question.

The good thing is: we have the mass everyday to remind us of the incarnation of Jesus:
"In the mass, the Son of God becomes man again, so that every Mass the stupendous Mystery of the Incarnation, with all its infinite merits, is repeated as truly as when the Son of God first took flesh in the womb of the virgin Mary." Paul O’Sullivan, OP

"What a sublime dignity is that of the priest, in whose hands Christ once more becomes man!" Saint Augustine

God bless
 
My Birthday is March 25 and I am honored that my Birthday and the Annunciation are on the same day. As for that day being a Holy Day of Obligation - when I was in first and second grade at the Catholic School I went to, we got the day off (silly me I thought it was because I was special because it was my birthday). The Sisters who taught us had a special devotion to Mary and used that day as one of many in intense prayer - I did know this but never put it together until I was much older that this was the Annunciation!

When I entered third grade the school decided to follow the Public School’s schedule so we no longer got that day off!

Brenda V.
 
The Solemnity of the Anunciation, March 25 (9 months before Christmas). This year (2005) it got moved because March 25 fell within the Octave of Easter.

Anunciation and Christmas are the two days that we still genuflect (instead of bowing) during the Creed, at: Et incarnatus est de Sprititu Sancto ex Maria Virgine: et homo factus est. – By the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.
 
Not being Catholic, I always found it a little odd that Mary’s conception was a Day of Obligation, but not the day of Christ’s conception. Could this be because Christmas Day, the day we celebrate as Christ’s birth is not really His birthday?

Christmas, or a winter holiday, was celebrated years before Christ was born. The first Christian churches forbid holidays, seeing them as pagan. They finally figured out that the celebrations would continue no matter what they said, so they declared Christmas would be celebrated, IF it celebrated the birth of the Christ Child. So, a winter holiday was chosen to offset the pagan holidays, as well as celebrate the feast of lights. Julius I declared Dec. 25 as Christmas day.

If you look in scripture, the shepherds were in the fields. This doesn’t happen in winter, and yes it’s cold in Bethlehem in December. By this time the shepherd’s would have moved their flocks back home. Plus, the angel came to Mary in the 6th month, which puts Christ’s birth in March or April.

Anyway, this could be the reason as to why it’s not celebrated as a day of Obligation. BUT, is there any proof as to WHEN Mary was conceived? Why is her conception a day of Obligation and Christ’s a day of Solemnity? or isn’t that right? Just curious.

Blessings to everyone. 🙂
 
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aria13:
Not being Catholic, I always found it a little odd that Mary’s conception was a Day of Obligation, but not the day of Christ’s conception. Could this be because Christmas Day, the day we celebrate as Christ’s birth is not really His birthday?

Christmas, or a winter holiday, was celebrated years before Christ was born. The first Christian churches forbid holidays, seeing them as pagan. They finally figured out that the celebrations would continue no matter what they said, so they declared Christmas would be celebrated, IF it celebrated the birth of the Christ Child. So, a winter holiday was chosen to offset the pagan holidays, as well as celebrate the feast of lights. Julius I declared Dec. 25 as Christmas day.

If you look in scripture, the shepherds were in the fields. This doesn’t happen in winter, and yes it’s cold in Bethlehem in December. By this time the shepherd’s would have moved their flocks back home. Plus, the angel came to Mary in the 6th month, which puts Christ’s birth in March or April.

Anyway, this could be the reason as to why it’s not celebrated as a day of Obligation. BUT, is there any proof as to WHEN Mary was conceived? Why is her conception a day of Obligation and Christ’s a day of Solemnity? or isn’t that right? Just curious.

Blessings to everyone. 🙂
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I doubt it had anything to do with why December 25 was chosen for Christmas. Christmas, the Annunciation, and the Immaculate Conception are all solemnities – i.e., observations of equal liturgical dignity. The decision to make a Solemnity a Holy Day of Obligation is a jurisdictional one, determined by each national bishops’ conference. A lot of it has to do with the local custom. In some places, for example, Epiphany would be a day of obligation, while in the U.S. it is not (though for the life of me, I do not understand that).
 
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aria13:
Not being Catholic, I always found it a little odd that Mary’s conception was a Day of Obligation, but not the day of Christ’s conception. Could this be because Christmas Day, the day we celebrate as Christ’s birth is not really His birthday?

Christmas, or a winter holiday, was celebrated years before Christ was born. The first Christian churches forbid holidays, seeing them as pagan. They finally figured out that the celebrations would continue no matter what they said, so they declared Christmas would be celebrated, IF it celebrated the birth of the Christ Child. So, a winter holiday was chosen to offset the pagan holidays, as well as celebrate the feast of lights. Julius I declared Dec. 25 as Christmas day.

If you look in scripture, the shepherds were in the fields. This doesn’t happen in winter, and yes it’s cold in Bethlehem in December. By this time the shepherd’s would have moved their flocks back home. Plus, the angel came to Mary in the 6th month, which puts Christ’s birth in March or April.

Anyway, this could be the reason as to why it’s not celebrated as a day of Obligation. BUT, is there any proof as to WHEN Mary was conceived? Why is her conception a day of Obligation and Christ’s a day of Solemnity? or isn’t that right? Just curious.

Blessings to everyone. 🙂
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Oddly, I’ve read - sorry can’t remember where - that Christmas was set based on Easter. It apparently was an early Church belief that important matters happened at the same time each year. March 25 pretty much coincided with early dating of Easter - so the early Church held the Annunciation as more important than Christmas initially. Christmas then followed as naturally 9 months later. The Sol Invictus arguments were pagan efforts to compete with Christmas which was gaining influence and not the other way around. No idea if there is any validity to all that. But, it’s interesting - and maybe true. Sorry I can’t remember the cite.

In all, it’s not a big deal any way. The concern is to remember and celebrate these matters.
 
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aria13:
Not being Catholic, I always found it a little odd that Mary’s conception was a Day of Obligation, but not the day of Christ’s conception. Could this be because Christmas Day, the day we celebrate as Christ’s birth is not really His birthday?

Christmas, or a winter holiday, was celebrated years before Christ was born. The first Christian churches forbid holidays, seeing them as pagan. They finally figured out that the celebrations would continue no matter what they said, so they declared Christmas would be celebrated, IF it celebrated the birth of the Christ Child. So, a winter holiday was chosen to offset the pagan holidays, as well as celebrate the feast of lights. Julius I declared Dec. 25 as Christmas day.

If you look in scripture, the shepherds were in the fields. This doesn’t happen in winter, and yes it’s cold in Bethlehem in December. By this time the shepherd’s would have moved their flocks back home. Plus, the angel came to Mary in the 6th month, which puts Christ’s birth in March or April.

Anyway, this could be the reason as to why it’s not celebrated as a day of Obligation. BUT, is there any proof as to WHEN Mary was conceived? Why is her conception a day of Obligation and Christ’s a day of Solemnity? or isn’t that right? Just curious.

Blessings to everyone. 🙂
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The Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception is a Holyday in the United States. This is the Patronal Feast of the United States. In other parts of the world, the Immaculate Conception of Mary is not a holyday. In Ireland, St. Patrick’s Day is a holyday while in the United States it is an optional memorial. In other parts of the world, St. Joseph’s Day is a holyday. Some holydays are universal in nature, for the whole Church, Christmas, Easter, every Sunday. While All Saint’s Day, Assumption of Mary, Immaculate Conception are holydays in the United States, but not in other parts of the World. So somewhere in the world, the Annunciation may be a holyday of obligation.

Fr. Bro.
 
Following an old Jewish tradition that prophets die on the annyversary of their conception, Jesus’ took place on Easter, the Annunciation.

From this, the date of Christmas was established. And to celebrate the Annunciation properly, it’s celebrated in the Gregorian calendar, not the hebrew one as Easter, so as to keep them separate in most years.

:blessyou:
 
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aria13:
If you look in scripture, the shepherds were in the fields. This doesn’t happen in winter, and yes it’s cold in Bethlehem in December. By this time the shepherd’s would have moved their flocks back home.
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The Earth was much warmer than nowadays then. For example, there was no snow in Judea then, except in the highest peaks, but now it’s common.

Earth hasn’t recovered from the Small Ice Age at the end of Middle Ages yet. Before it, there used to be one more crop per year in Europe than in these days of agronomical engineering (of course, not with the same yield).

:blessyou:
 
… has been duly answered.

I happen to like the Feast of the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan River as one of the understated observances in the Church calendar.

That was a tremendous moment of anointing of Jesus as the Lamb of God.

Surely, the life of Jesus is one superlative on top of another. Emmanuel, God with us.

In the final analysis, even the major feasts are single days in the Church calendar.

And, imagine. So many saints were canonized under JPII. How will the Church fit them all into the calendar?
 
Jamie Burns:
Anunciation and Christmas are the two days that we still genuflect (instead of bowing) during the Creed
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I don’t know about other places, but here, it’s rare to even see someone bow during the part of the creed where you’re supposed to- much less genuflect.
 
… .rare to see someone bow… .

You from Vermont too? 😃

I know our previous pastor went over this nearly three years ago, but people didn’t do it then and still don’t do it now, and it’s the same in my new parish, and in the several parishes I’ve been to, north and south in VT.
 
I wonder where this myth started. Why would the shepherds only be watching the flocks at lambing time (Spring?). In those days sheep ranchers did not have the barns, sheds, and corrals of modern days. They kept the sheep in pastures all the time in those days, and naturally would need to have someone watching for predators and human “sheep-rustlers”. Also, have you ever been around sheep on a really cold night? Sometimes a hysteria sets in and they start “piling” they will pile on top of each other for body heat, and some can be injured or even smothered in the pile. You have to pull them off each other.

ALSO, I can’t cite it, and it isn’t in scripture but I heard once that there was a tradition that Zechariah (John the Baptist’s father) his turn to light the incense was on Rosh Hashannah. That would put John the Baptist’s birth in June (when we celebrate it), Elizabeth’s confinement to May when we celebrate the Visitation, and make late March a logical date for the Anunciation – and nine months later the Nativity.

{If you look in scripture, the shepherds were in the fields. This doesn’t happen in winter, and yes it’s cold in Bethlehem in December. By this time the shepherd’s would have moved their flocks back home. Plus, the angel came to Mary in the 6th month, which puts Christ’s birth in March or April.}
 
Jamie Burns said:
{If you look in scripture, the shepherds were in the fields. This doesn’t happen in winter, and yes it’s cold in Bethlehem in December. By this time the shepherd’s would have moved their flocks back home. Plus, the angel came to Mary in the 6th month, which puts Christ’s birth in March or April.}
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Do people forget why Joseph and Mary were in Bethlehem and not in their home? There are innumerable reasons why the shepherds were there and I find it amazing at how willing people are to trust any talking head over the Scriptures.

I take St. Luke’s words in his first chapter over any other “fact finders”.

:blessyou:
 
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