Once Catholic, Always Catholic

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**"… If he is baptized Catholic then he is a Catholic. Being brought out of the Catholic Church as a child does not negate that." **

The above quote, taken from another thread, expresses an opinion that I often see on this forum: once Catholic, always Catholic - whether you like it or not. In fact, some have argued that even a formal defection, while releasing you from the obligation to follow certain Canon Laws, does not undo the fact that you are Catholic. My question is, does it work the other way? Suppose I was baptized in the Lutheran Church and later in life I decide to convert to Catholicism. Following the line of reasoning expressed in the above quote, wouldn’t I still be a Lutheran?
 
rick43235 said:
**"… If he is baptized Catholic then he is a Catholic. Being brought out of the Catholic Church as a child does not negate that." **

The above quote, taken from another thread, expresses an opinion that I often see on this forum: once Catholic, always Catholic - whether you like it or not. In fact, some have argued that even a formal defection, while releasing you from the obligation to follow certain Canon Laws, does not undo the fact that you are Catholic. My question is, does it work the other way? Suppose I was baptized in the Lutheran Church and later in life I decide to convert to Catholicism. Following the line of reasoning expressed in the above quote, wouldn’t I still be a Lutheran?
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The formulation “once Catholic, always Catholic” is a bit simplistic. It’s also theologically problematic. It’s more accurate to say that the Sacrament of Baptism leaves an indelible mark of grace on the one who receives it and provides only the opportunity to attain salvation. Such baptism can be valid even if obtained in a non-Catholic church or through some extraordinary means like Baptism of Desire or Baptism of Blood. However, if such a person damns himself, then, writhing in eternal agony, he is most definitely not a member of the Church nor can he justly be called “Catholic”.
 
In the case mentioned in the OP, the person didn’t even know he’d been baptized in the Catholic Church. He was raised in the United Church and considers himself a member of that Church.
 
The phrase is correct. Baptism leaves the soul indelibly marked. If a person was baptized as a Catholic, then they are forever a Catholic. A person can be a nonpracticing Catholic or an apostate Catholic, but they will always be a Catholic.

There’s nothing that a good confession wouldn’t fix so that they’d be fit to receive Communion.
 
WhollyRoamin said:
The phrase is correct. Baptism leaves the soul indelibly marked. If a person was baptized as a Catholic, then they are forever a Catholic. A person can be a nonpracticing Catholic or an apostate Catholic, but they will always be a Catholic.
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So, if my soul was indelibly marked by my Lutheran baptism, and if I did not formally defect from the Lutheran Church, how would my “Lutheranism” be affected by my conversion to the Catholic Church? Is “once a Lutheran always a Lutheran” the same as “once a Catholic always a Catholic?”
 
Phemie said:
In the case mentioned in the OP, the person didn’t even know he’d been baptized in the Catholic Church. He was raised in the United Church and considers himself a member of that Church.
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True, but if the concept of “once a Catholic always a Catholic” is valid, then the fact that he self-identifies as a member of another church would be irrelevant.
 
‘Always Catholic’ refers more to the fact that, having been baptised into the Church (OR otherwise received into it, of course - hence the Lutheran baptism not meaning perpetual Lutheranhood), one is thereafter bound to its Canon Law.

Absent formal defection at the very least (which most people do not realise, and do not do when they leave the Church). But more than that, if the Body of Christ is the Catholic Church then one never, being once baptised into it, leaves it, even if one switches denominations. Thanks to the indelible character of the sacrament.
 
So in the case this thread is based off of, the person didn’t even know he was baptized Catholic and did not receive any other sacraments nor was raised in the faith. I understand the indelible nature of baptism, but would this person actually be marrying “outside the church” if he married another non-catholic?
 
This is one thing that should be stressed to parents who present their child for baptism in the Catholic Church. “By doing this, you are binding your child to follow Precepts of the Catholic Church, including the rules for marriage. Even if you decide to leave the Church for another denomination or religion, your child will be required to follow the Precepts unless they formally defect.”

It might make people understand that Baptism MEANS something.
 
If you were Baptized using the Trinitarian formula then you were Baptized into the Catholic Church. What ecclesiastical community you become part of after is another story.

So if you were Baptized Lutheran you are Catholic unless you have made a choice away from it.
 
armywife said:
So in the case this thread is based off of, the person didn’t even know he was baptized Catholic and did not receive any other sacraments nor was raised in the faith. I understand the indelible nature of baptism, but would this person actually be marrying “outside the church” if he married another non-catholic?
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Yes.
 
rick43235 said:
So, if my soul was indelibly marked by my Lutheran baptism, and if I did not formally defect from the Lutheran Church, how would my “Lutheranism” be affected by my conversion to the Catholic Church? Is “once a Lutheran always a Lutheran” the same as “once a Catholic always a Catholic?”
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No it isn’t the same.

The Catholic Church is the only Church, objectively speaking.

These ecclesial communities that have broken away validly baptize into the Body of Christ. The Church recognizes the necessity of Baptism and therefore allows that those without Holy Orders can baptize validly.

If baptized outside the Catholic Church, one is still Catholic in the sense that one is baptized into the Body of Christ. One is imperfectly united to the Body of Christ if one is not a member of the visible Church. Being baptized outside the Catholic Church means one is not bound to her Canon Law.

The Lutheran Church you mention has no concept of Canon Law. They do not consider baptism to impart the same type of character as the Catholic Church does.
 
rick43235 said:
**"… If he is baptized Catholic then he is a Catholic. Being brought out of the Catholic Church as a child does not negate that." **

The above quote, taken from another thread, expresses an opinion that I often see on this forum: once Catholic, always Catholic - whether you like it or not. In fact, some have argued that even a formal defection, while releasing you from the obligation to follow certain Canon Laws, does not undo the fact that you are Catholic. My question is, does it work the other way? Suppose I was baptized in the Lutheran Church and later in life I decide to convert to Catholicism. Following the line of reasoning expressed in the above quote, wouldn’t I still be a Lutheran?
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As I understand it at present (and being open to correction):

There is not such a thing as “Lutheran Baptism” - Lutherans use Catholic Baptism, but because that Catholic Baptism was not administered by a member of Catholic clergy or in a Catholic Church, those being baptized in the Lutheran church are released from the obligations of canon law.
 
buffalo said:
If you were Baptized using the Trinitarian formula then you were Baptized into the Catholic Church.
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Interesting. Although I have no memory of the occasion, I think I can safely say that there was not a Catholic in sight when I was baptized. I suspect that the Lutheran minister who baptized me would find this to be interesting too.
 
rick43235 said:
Interesting. Although I have no memory of the occasion, I think I can safely say that there was not a Catholic in sight when I was baptized. I suspect that the Lutheran minister who baptized me would find this to be interesting too.
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The whole Church, the Body of Christ, was there in spirit if not physically, to welcome you as a member - all the angels and saints.

And EVERYBODY’s Catholic in heaven, regardless of what they might’ve called themselves on earth.
 
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