Once Saved, Always Saved. Always?

[Lincoln7]

Hawk maid,

I think it just goes to show you why OSAS doesn’t work. Logically speaking, if you’re always saved, why is it a problem to convert, or sin at all? It’s a paradox of what the Bible teaches, and it stuns me why it’s so widely accepted. I honestly want to hear from somebody who still strongly believes in it, as to me it makes no logical sense, let alone biblical…

As a Reformed Christian, i don’t use the phrase “Once saved always saved”, but rather stick with the classical reformed teaching instead on “The Perseverance of the Saints”. From the Westminster Confession:

They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

• reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

The teaching categorically does not lead to a careless sinful attitude, Paul answers the very same objection on numerous occasions:

And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just. - Romans 3:8 (ESV).

Or again:

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? - Romans 6:1 (ESV).

The doctrine is not one that teaches people can just live carless, unholy, neglectful lives, but rather that as they are Christ’s elect, chosen in him before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4), who will by His grace live fully and lovingly for him, striving against their sin, and as his sheep, he has promised:

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” - John 10:28-30 (ESV)

Lincs

 

[rcwitness]

As a Reformed Christian, i don’t use the phrase “Once saved always saved”, but rather stick with the classical reformed teaching instead on “The Perseverance of the Saints”. From the Westminster Confession:

They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

I think this does contradict Scripture:

Hebrews 10
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,27but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.28A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.29*How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?30For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

Or again:

The doctrine is not one that teaches people can just live carless, unholy, neglectful lives, but rather that as they are Christ’s elect, chosen in him before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4), who will by His grace live fully and lovingly for him, striving against their sin, and as his sheep, he has promised:

This is phrased more in line with Scripture and Catholic Doctrine. I think the difference being, that this later quote is from the perspective that these elect, have indeed persevered in faith and so attaining the promise of everlasting life.

 

[andrewstx]

Depends on which branch of Calvinistic teaching one travels down. In one set of Calvinistic belief, you can’t know if you are elect or not until you die. In another, if you are well off and a hard worker, and don’t sin, that is proof. In another you can know, but it is completely interior, meaning no one else can judge that… etc …

I wasn’t aware of more than one type of Calvinism. But OSAS is defineatly Calvinist. It is the P in TULIP standing for Persavrence. I think it is the remainder of Calvinism in the Baptist family of denominations.

 

[Kliska]

I wasn’t aware of more than one type of Calvinism. But OSAS is defineatly Calvinist. It is the P in TULIP standing for Persavrence. I think it is the remainder of Calvinism in the Baptist family of denominations.

There aren’t so much actual types (except “Five point Calvinists” “Four Point” “Three Point” etc…), but more like multiple labels or multiple applications. So, for example even the phrase “perseverance of the saints” is interpreted differently. One Calvinist preacher may say it means that a true elect saint will not sin; literally. If a person sins, they are obviously not elect, and hence not a saint. A different Calvinist preacher may say that instead it means that someone who is elect can still “sin” but can never lose their election.

OSAS can be Calvinist for sure, but it isn’t restricted to Calvinism in protestant circles, in short, you can have a non-Calvinist who believes OSAS. All full TULIP Calvinists believe in a type of OSAS, but not all who believe OSAS are any type of Calvinist.

Now even I’m confused… lol

 

[JustaServant]

There aren’t so much actual types (except “Five point Calvinists” “Four Point” “Three Point” etc…), but more like multiple labels or multiple applications. So, for example even the phrase “perseverance of the saints” is interpreted differently. One Calvinist preacher may say it means that a true elect saint will not sin; literally. If a person sins, they are obviously not elect, and hence not a saint. A different Calvinist preacher may say that instead it means that someone who is elect can still “sin” but can never lose their election.

OSAS can be Calvinist for sure, but it isn’t restricted to Calvinism in protestant circles, in short, you can have a non-Calvinist who believes OSAS. All full TULIP Calvinists believe in a type of OSAS, but not all who believe OSAS are any type of Calvinist.

Now even I’m confused… lol

You’re correct. I met many Reformed Calvinists who rejected OSAS outright. They considered it ‘cheap grace’.