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Rosie12
Guest
… or are you wed to the idea of “Once saved, always saved”, thus no longer in need of a Saviour?
Just curious…
Just curious…
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ltwin
Guest
OSAS is a foreign concept to Pentecostals. We believe in conditional security. Faith in Christ is continually required, for everything in the Christian life is received by faith. Confession of sin and repentance is continually required. Sanctification is a lifelong process, a growth in grace. Backsliding (or turning away from Christ) is possible.
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Aelred_Minor
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I grew up Methodist, which has common roots with Pentecostalism and the same basic idea about backsliding, and now of course I’m Catholic, but I think OSAS people would say that their doctrine is based on their way of relying on Christ. They believe that Christ’s gift of salvation is such that you never would have to worry about backsliding, since Christ already saved you and won’t abandon you even if you try to abandon Him. It’s a simplistic and ultimately horrible idea, but in their minds it is a simple and beautiful trust in our Lord.
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Izdaari
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OSAS is by no means universal among Protestants. Off hand, I’d say it’s mainly just Baptists (and not all of them, but most) who have it as a denominational distinctive. As previously noted, we Pentecostals (I’m Assemblies of God) aren’t much into that. One of my pastors is very fond of saying “We are process people”.
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JustaServant
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I would say, without knowing it, and from personal experience, many evangelicals are wed to the the concept of “eternal security” or OSAS to such an extent it overshadows Christ.
When I reverted back to the Church, OSAS was a hard philosophy to discard. It’s an enticing teaching that gives one psychological and emotional peace about ones eternal state.
But once discarded, the peace that follows is far greater. And you realize what a dangerous ‘theology’ OSAS is.
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JRKH
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TimothyH
Guest
Once Saved, Always Saved is a widely accepted dogma of non-denominational Evangelicalism here in the south, and most of these are as quick to distance themselves from mainstream Protestant denominations as they are from Catholicism - they see little difference.
You will see people with front license plates on their truck picturing a cross and the date which they accepted Christ and were saved. I have even seen a tatoo with a picture of three crosses on a hill and the date which the young man accepted Jesus and presumably was granted irrevolkable entry into heaven.
It brings them great joy, and sometimes a reckless lack of fear, I can tell you that, and sometimes makes them do som pretty crazy stuff.
-Tim-
You will see people with front license plates on their truck picturing a cross and the date which they accepted Christ and were saved. I have even seen a tatoo with a picture of three crosses on a hill and the date which the young man accepted Jesus and presumably was granted irrevolkable entry into heaven.
It brings them great joy, and sometimes a reckless lack of fear, I can tell you that, and sometimes makes them do som pretty crazy stuff.
-Tim-
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Rosie12
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Awwww that’s nice! Thanks for your illuminating response. It’s a pretty intimate relationship, that between Saviour and the Saved, isn’t it? To know that by perpetually offering each other two each other, two hearts grow closer to each other and become unified, like man and wife…
I have a beautiful picture of our Precious Lord praying in Gesthename right by my bed side… Whether I read the Bible before sleeping or pray actively or do both, He’s always the last one I see when I turn off my lights, and other than my hubby, the first one I see when I wake up. I love reading in the Bible about our Lord, about how strong and brave He is, how loving and wise He is, how He is our Perpetual Beacon of Hope, so that no matter what is falling apart around the world, He is always there. Sometimes I even fall asleep hugging the Bible, especially when I am on business travel…
I know some people who claim to represent Christ’s interests can do things which are in poor judgment, and can wind up failing in their mission to edify members of the Body of Christ. We all need to edify each other in our faith and help us stay focused on Our Lord, the One who is always offering Himself to us, and who has given us the free will to accept or reject His offer… Spiritual warfare these days is REALLY nasty, and this is the time we must offer ourselves to Christ for him rescue us, because He is the only one who can.
God bless you Itwin. I wish I could read more posts, but I need to dash for work. I’ll read more later.
Yours in Christ,
Rosie <3
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wondrousgnat
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I believe that those in the OSAS group are often very aggressive in promoting their beliefs. Giving many the impression that all Protestants believe it. But as a former Protestant myself I never saw it as an issue that many believed in. The OSAS crowd is small but being very vocal give a wrong impression on what most Protestants actually believe.
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ltwin
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It truly is a relationship. The Christian life is one of living transformed into Christ’s likeness. Just as he poured out his life for us, we in turn must become living sacrifices to him.
God bless you too.
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ltwin
Guest
I think some non-Evangelicals see things that they think indicate OSAS that really don’t, and it can give the impression that OSAS is being referred to when it isn’t.
Using your example of license plates, my first thought seeing one would not be “Oh he thinks that’s the date that he was guaranteed a spot in heaven, no questions asked.” Instead I would think, “That is the day he, for the first time, heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached and was convicted of his sin by the Holy Spirit. He responded by making Jesus Lord and Savior of his life and confessing and repenting of his sin.” There is no assumption that this was a one time event. It is quite possible to have such an experience and continue to recognize that we must continually choose to follow Christ and yield to the Spirit’s sanctifying work in our life.
I do not believe in OSAS, but I can tell you that I remember the day I gave my heart and life to Christ and asked him for the first time to forgive me of my sins. However, such a commitment is not made once, but must continually be renewed each day. I have not always lived for Christ like I should have. There have been times that I have walked away from him, but thankfully his Spirit has always drawn me back to him and softened my hard heart.
So, when evangelicals say, “I got saved on such and such a date,” he is not necessarily saying that he believes in OSAS. He is referring to what a Catholic might think of the day he was baptized. Neither experience means that he can just do what he wants from that day on and still please God with no consequences at all.
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cajunhillbilly
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Most evangelicals who teach OSAS do NOT teach you can live as you please and be sure of heaven. Most would say the only way you know you are really saved is by living a life for Jesus and continually trusting Him as your Savior. I do not believe in the doctrine myself, but lets get the doctrine right when we are criticizing it. I believe in the Perseverance of the Saints which is NOT the same as OSAS.
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ltwin
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Well, I do know that there are Christians who do believe you can do whatever you want and still be saved. The pastors who teach OSAS may not think that, but it appears to me that the chance for the average person in the pew to be confused by such intricate distinctions is very high.
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Nicea325
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Yes and the CC teaches salvation is a process,not a one time event as many teach and preach.
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CopticChristian
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Then what you are saying is that you accept Arminianism. Now this is understandable. When you consider that Methodists are Arminian. The Holiness movement sprung from Methodism and the Pentacostal movement from that…Arminianism was translated in each of those movements so that you learned it and accepted it. You should know that at the Synod of Dort the Calvinists declared Armininius and the remonstrants to be heretics and there has never been a synod since to declare otherwise.
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Aelred_Minor
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You are very right that OSAS and Perseverance of the Saints are not the same doctrine, but are you sure the Evangelicals in question hold to the latter and not the former? Why would they call it Once Saved Always Saved if that is not what they believe, or have the terms gotten that confused in some circles?
In any event there are certainly many Baptists who hold OSAS, so it’s a legitimate topic to discuss and criticize.
Also it is true though that some Protestants used the “saved” terminology which suggests OSAS when they in fact hold other positions.
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ltwin
Guest
Yes Pentecostals are Arminian. I’m not surprised about the heresy thing. Even today, Calvinists are some of the toughest critics of Pentecostalism (God knows why. They have enough heretics in their own tradition to keep them occupied for decades …)Then what you are saying is that you accept Arminianism. Now this is understandable. When you consider that Methodists are Arminian. The Holiness movement sprung from Methodism and the Pentacostal movement from that…Arminianism was translated in each of those movements so that you learned it and accepted it. You should know that at the Synod of Dort the Calvinists declared Armininius and the remonstrants to be heretics and there has never been a synod since to declare otherwise.
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CopticChristian
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God knows why, they know why, you should know why…read the Synod of Dort…
Then understand that this all started with Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and Luther…
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CopticChristian
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Compare and contrast for me so that I may understand for they sound the same to me.
OSAS Perseverance of the Saints
says says this
etc etc
Help me understand what it is you differentiate in this system of thought.
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Kristin234
Guest
Just because you know Christians who believe that does not mean that is what it actually is. A lot of my Catholic family members believe that as long as they go to church every week and take communion they can sin as much as they want. That doesn’t mean that what they believe is accepted by the Catholic Church.
Also, the average person in the pew shouldn’t be confused if they attend church regularly. My church has made it very clear what OSAS means on multiple occasions. I’m sure that most of the people who do not understand it are those who aren’t regular church goers and do not understand their faith. Just like how I am sure that those Catholics who believe that they can sin all they want as long as they take communion are those that do not understand their faith.
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