"Once saved, always saved" or Jesus?

[Marie_Gregg]

I wrestled with this question for quite some time, but my pastor said something not too long ago that settled it for me. In a sermon, he asked, “Where are you in relation to Christ right now? Are you turning toward or away from Him?”

That’s what matters.

My theological tradition is Wesleyan-Arminian. I believe that it is possible to release God’s saving hand after taking it. That is an important definition for me; I don’t see this as “losing” salvation, as in God takes it away from you - that can lead to a great deal of stress in wondering where the line is to lose His grace - but in walking away from it. That, I believe, is most readily seen in how you live your life. We are saved by grace through faith, and that faith is shown in our submission to the Spirit’s chiseling work in our lives, expressed in our good, charitable and compassionate deeds. Living a life completely contrary to God’s commands would be, in my mind, evidence that one has turned away.

That being said, I think you’d have to have a pretty limited understanding of God to turn away from Him. I can’t imagine life without His presence.

 

[babylonsfalling]

… or are you wed to the idea of “Once saved, always saved”, thus no longer in need of a Saviour?

Just curious…

In my case, OSAS became so ridiculous that it became self defeating and eventually became one of the things which led me away protestantism and back to Catholicism.

From an OSAS believer explaining away their 4th divorce…“it doesn’t matter because I’m already forgiven”

I knew their was something fundamentally wrong with that statement and that is was something that I would never hear within Catholicism. Catholics believe sin does matter, and at least make a real effort at avoiding sin…imperfect though it may be, they at least believe sin matters and try not to sin.

 

[CompSciGuy]

I have been on this forum a long time, and I think that I have never heard anyone promote the idea of “once saved always saved.” Is there anyone in this forum who supports this view?

Also I think your question would be bizarre to a OSAS person… they would say “of course we need a savior, if there were no savior then there would be no way to be ‘saved’ in the first place.”

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I have been on this forum a long time, and I think that I have never heard anyone promote the idea of “once saved always saved.” Is there anyone in this forum who supports this view?

Also I think your question would be bizarre to a OSAS person… they would say “of course we need a savior, if there were no savior then there would be no way to be ‘saved’ in the first place.”

Nobody here may support it, but I’ve heard some Protestants talk about things that sound supiciously about OSAS…
Kenneth Copeland, and the day that I decided to watch his program, said some things which sounded mighty clost to OSAS. But then, Copeland is really on his own little world anyway, so it really would not be surprising that he would pe saying something like that.

Good post.

 

[JRKH]

To be honest, in talking to protestants on this the vast majority do not see OSAS, or Assurance of Salvation in the same way as opponents sometimes present it.

To be sure there are those who, like the reference above explain poor behavior away with such comments as, “it doesn’t matter because I’m already forgiven”.

But most believe that evidence of truly being saved is a changed life. That one cannot simply continue in sin relying on a one time “conversion” that bears no lasting fruit. Such unchanged people would be referred to as a false conversion…“they weren’t truly saved in the first place”.

Of course this really brings us back to the idea of how does one know one is “truly saved” in this life and the answer is that we cannot “know”, we can only take on faith that God will be true to His promises if we are true to ours…

Peace
James

 

[CopticChristian]

I wrestled with this question for quite some time, but my pastor said something not too long ago that settled it for me. In a sermon, he asked, “Where are you in relation to Christ right now? Are you turning toward or away from Him?”

That’s what matters.

My theological tradition is Wesleyan-Arminian. I believe that it is possible to release God’s saving hand after taking it. That is an important definition for me; I don’t see this as “losing” salvation, as in God takes it away from you - that can lead to a great deal of stress in wondering where the line is to lose His grace - but in walking away from it. That, I believe, is most readily seen in how you live your life. We are saved by grace through faith, and that faith is shown in our submission to the Spirit’s chiseling work in our lives, expressed in our good, charitable and compassionate deeds. Living a life completely contrary to God’s commands would be, in my mind, evidence that one has turned away.

That being said, I think you’d have to have a pretty limited understanding of God to turn away from Him. I can’t imagine life without His presence.

Sounds like you read Veritatis Splendor…if you have not you would find it consistent with your thoughts.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html

 

[Anna_Scott]

To be honest, in talking to protestants on this the vast majority do not see OSAS, or Assurance of Salvation in the same way as opponents sometimes present it.

To be sure there are those who, like the reference above explain poor behavior away with such comments as, “it doesn’t matter because I’m already forgiven”.

But most believe that evidence of truly being saved is a changed life. That one cannot simply continue in sin relying on a one time “conversion” that bears no lasting fruit. Such unchanged people would be referred to as a false conversion…“they weren’t truly saved in the first place”.

Of course this really brings us back to the idea of how does one know one is “truly saved” in this life and the answer is that we cannot “know”, we can only take on faith that God will be true to His promises if we are true to ours…

Peace
James

James,
I think you are right. Coming from the Southern Baptist Church, I know that one’s life in Christ is really serious for SB’s–behavior does matter–bearing fruit does matter. The SBC does believe in the “doctrine of the security of the believer,” which is essentially OSAS. In fact, belief in this “security” is one of the requirements for Baptism. Prior to baptism, one repents of sins, asks for forgiveness, and accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then one is considered to be saved/born again—a regenerate believer. All this takes place prior to baptism, which must be done by immersion. SB’s do not believe baptism or the Lord’s Supper play any role in salvation. In fact they will not even accept a baptism performed as a Sacrament.

Link: imb.org/main/news/details.asp?LanguageID=1709&StoryID=3840

Peace,
Anna

 

[Little_Mary]

In my case, OSAS became so ridiculous that it became self defeating and eventually became one of the things which led me away protestantism and back to Catholicism.

**From an OSAS believer explaining away their 4th divorce…“it doesn’t matter because I’m already forgiven”**I knew their was something fundamentally wrong with that statement and that is was something that I would never hear within Catholicism. Catholics believe sin does matter, and at least make a real effort at avoiding sin…imperfect though it may be, they at least believe sin matters and try not to sin.

I’ve seen two examples of this…see bolded area above…

In one instance, a baptist deacon had an affair with a choir member, both were married with families, both divorced their spouses and married each other. All belonged to the same church. The deacon continued on as a deacon throughout the whole thing and is still there today. His ex wife left. My friend approached the pastor, asking how is it that the deacon could do such a thing and the pastor’s response went something like “Well, he ISsaved, so it’s all moot”

In the second instance, I was talking to an acquaintance, who is married and a self proclaimed non-denom/fundamentalist, who believes in OSAS, we were discussing it in detail because I had a lot of questions. He said, “Let me put it to you this way…I could go pick up a girl right now, take her to a hotel room and have sex with her. If I suffer a heart attack and die in the middle of the act, I will still go straight to heaven, because I am saved and I cannot lose my salvation”

True stories, both of them.

 

[Little_Mary]

I think it’s interesting to note, in the second example in my previous post, that person does struggle with guilt and “doing what is right”, which is hard evidence of the false idea of OSAS. As another poster stated, it can be very confusing.