Once Saved Always Saved (Revisited..)

[distracted]

In St. Matthew 18:23 it speaks of a person who owes a huge debt to the king. The guy promises he will pay off the entire debt if given time. However, because of the king’s mercy, he grants him more than he asks: a total pardon that wipes away the entire debt… But then he finds someone who owes him a much lesser debt… and refuses to show mercy and forgive. When this is reported to the king, he turns the man over to “the torturers” until the last penny of the debt (once written off) is paid…

So how can there be any Once Saved Aways Saved?

 

[distracted]

I knew it!!!

That no one could give an answer to this…

 

[Henning]

Sorry, I just couldn’t leave you the only poster

I’m not defending OSAS but…

How do we know the man was saved? The parable points to a person who has had his sin removed, but that doesn’t mean he is saved. For Romans 5:10 says,
“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

We are raised and saved by the resurrection into new creations…no ?.

 

[distracted]

Sorry, I just couldn’t leave you the only poster

I’m not defending OSAS but…

How do we know the man was saved? The parable points to a person who has had his sin removed, but that doesn’t mean he is saved. For Romans 5:10 says,
“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

We are raised and saved by the resurrection into new creations…no ?.

I’m confused… How much more saved can you be than when you have ALL your sins wiped off the slate…???

 

[MrStain]

So how can there be any Once Saved Aways Saved?

Got me?

I see themes in Scripture that point to a possibility of a falling away from the faith, aka apostasy. One example is Paul’s letter to the Christian “churches of Galatia” (Gal 1:2). Right at the beginning of that letter Paul speaks of those who were “turning away so soon from Him who called” them “in the grace of Christ” and were turning “to a different gospel”. (Gal 1:6). He wasn’t writing to Pagans, he was writing to Christians who already received the gospel (Gal 1:9); “begun in the Spirit” (Gal 3:3); “put on Christ” (Gal 3:27); and received the “Spirit of His Son” into their hearts (Gal 4:6). The Christians of Galatia received many graces and yet some still turned away from the gospel they previously received into their hearts, thus becoming estranged/severed/separated from Christ and so Paul declared that they had “fallen from grace” (Gal 5:4). Paul was obviously alarmed by the fact Christians were falling away and that was the precise reason he wrote his letter to the Galatians to begin with.

 

[distracted]

Got me?

I see themes in Scripture that point to a possibility of a falling away from the faith, aka apostasy. One example is Paul’s letter to the Christian “churches of Galatia” (Gal 1:2)…The Christians of Galatia received many graces and yet some still turned away from the gospel they previously received into their hearts, thus becoming estranged/severed/separated from Christ and so Paul declared that they had “fallen from grace” (Gal 5:4). Paul was obviously alarmed by the fact Christians were falling away and that was the precise reason he wrote his letter to the Galatians to begin with.

so do you think there is a biblical distinction between being saved and being totally forgiven???

 

[MrStain]

so do you think there is a biblical distinction between being saved and being totally forgiven???

I’m not sure what you are getting at, but scripture indicates in many other places than Pauls’ letter to the Galations that people have been “saved” and “forgiven”, but yet still chose to forsake the right way (2 Pet 2:15) and because of their bad choices “it would have been better for them never to have know the way of righteousness” (2 Pet 2:21). These apostates (falling away) crucify the Son of God on their own account (Heb 6:6). Were they saved? Sure. Were they forgiven? Sure. However, they forsook the truth and have gone astray into apostasy.

 

[Techno2000]

In St. Matthew 18:23 it speaks of a person who owes a huge debt to the king. The guy promises he will pay off the entire debt if given time. However, because of the king’s mercy, he grants him more than he asks: a total pardon that wipes away the entire debt… But then he finds someone who owes him a much lesser debt… and refuses to show mercy and forgive. When this is reported to the king, he turns the man over to “the torturers” until the last penny of the debt (once written off) is paid…

So how can there be any Once Saved Aways Saved?

This Scripture is one of many that support the teaching of purgatory.

 

[distracted]

I’m not sure what you are getting at, but scripture indicates in many other places than Pauls’ letter to the Galations that people have been “saved” and “forgiven”, but yet still chose to forsake the right way (2 Pet 2:15) and because of their bad choices “it would have been better for them never to have know the way of righteousness” (2 Pet 2:21). These apostates (falling away) crucify the Son of God on their own account (Heb 6:6). Were they saved? Sure. Were they forgiven? Sure. However, they forsook the truth and have gone astray into apostasy.

thanks for bringing this passage up. It confirms what i said to someone once about how it is even worse to sin AFTER accepting Christ than before… a thought which i feel the Holy Spirit gave me… well, no, wait… my experiences also gave me that thought (long story)…

Anyway… kinda boggles my mind why people continue to hold onto osas… it is NOT biblical and makes no logical sense, particularly when one has sinned and suffered the consequneces thereof…

the more i think about it, the more i am baffled… i gues people just don’t know the Word and don’t know themselves - or the sinfulness of others - very well…

 

[distracted]

This Scripture is one of many that support the teaching of purgatory.

i used to think so… .but now am not so sure the guy in the story went to Purg. The reason is because Jesus says (here &elsewhere) that those who do not forgive others will not be forgiven. Maybe if the unforgiving person asked God to forgive him for not forgiving??? he could go to Purg??

:coffeeread:

Anyway, why take a chance???

 

[distracted]

I’m not sure what you are getting at, .

believe it or not, i was just asking your opinion… Do you think being totally forgiven is the same as being totally saved??

Another poster made a distinction…

 

[Techno2000]

i used to think so… .but now am not so sure the guy in the story went to Purg. The reason is because Jesus says (here &elsewhere) that those who do not forgive others will not be forgiven. Maybe if the unforgiving person asked God to forgive him for not forgiving??? he could go to Purg??

:coffeeread:

Anyway, why take a chance???

I remember reading somewhere that Jesus told “Saint Gertrude the Great” (paraphrase) :

“For a Penny one can pay for a Thousand Dollars worth of sin in this life,but in the next life(Purgatory) it will cost you a Thousand Dollars for one Penny’s worth of sin.”

---

 

[distracted]

I remember reading somewhere that Jesus told “Saint Gertrude the Great” (paraphrase) :

“For a Penny one can pay for a Thousand Dollars worth of sin in this life,but in the next life(Purgatory) it will cost you a Thousand Dollars for one Penny’s worth of sin.”

---

thank you for that… i remember something to that effect but didn’t know which saint to attribute it to…

and from what i have learned about Purgatory (both Here and Hereafter), i “know” that to be true…

i heard that Protestants spend more time in Purg than Catholics… makes sense… since they don’t see the need to pay for anything… realy…

 

[Techno2000]

thank you for that… i remember something to that effect but didn’t know which saint to attribute it to…

and from what i have learned about Purgatory (both Here and Hereafter), i “know” that to be true…

i heard that Protestants spend more time in Purg than Catholics… makes sense… since they don’t see the need to pay for anything… realy…

I agree 100%, because their Protestant relatives don’t Believe in Purgatory, they are not saying prayers for them to help get them out.

 

[RobHom]

I knew it!!!

That no one could give an answer to this…

I’ll answer you: ITS CALLED “BK” THEOLOGY. Yes, as in “Burger King”…remember their “have it your way” motto…

You know, and I know you do, that if one espouses to clipping little “snippets” of scriptures out of the Bible…and applying those choice little morsels to whatever agenda one chooses, you can at some point justify just about anything…even if you know its dead wrong and an abomination.

That is precisely what OSAS is…

 

[Henning]

I’m confused… How much more saved can you be than when you have ALL your sins wiped off the slate…???

sorry distracted for the confusion…I am no theologian, but am willing to learn…

I guess I’m understanding ‘saved’ in OSAS as ‘saved from death’. If we are crucified with Christ and buried with him, our sins are ‘wiped off the slate’ but we are still dead from the crucifixion, still buried. It takes a separate process to resurrect us, to give us new life and make us a new creation, even as Jesus’ crucifixion is a separate process from the resurrection. Or even as baptism brings about remission of sin but that remission is not the same process as the infusion of sanctifying grace.

So, IMO, the man in the parable might have had his debt wiped off the slate by the king’s pardon but he hadn’t been granted new life so as to make him a new creature. He wasn’t necessarily alive from the dead…at least he wasn’t acting like it.

 

[MrStain]

believe it or not, i was just asking your opinion… Do you think being totally forgiven is the same as being totally saved??

Another poster made a distinction…

Sorry, distracted. I was distracted by the weekend so apologies for the delayed response.

I think one can be in a state of Grace where they are totally forgiven by God and guaranteed salvation. Of course, this state only lasts until you commit a sin that leads to death. This puts one at risk of losing that salvation until forgiveness is sought out and received. I would say forgiveness & salvation go together.

Thoughts?

 

[distracted]

You know, and I know you do, that if one espouses to clipping little “snippets” of scriptures out of the Bible…and applying those choice little morsels to whatever agenda one chooses, you can at some point justify just about anything…even if you know its dead wrong and an abomination.

That is precisely what OSAS is…

but what is weird is that they not only do THAt… they seem to skip over or worse, twist, huge chunks of the Bible that say just the exact opposite of OSAS… they come to the scirptures with a pre-existing mindset & try to mold the Word into that mind-set… In other words, they believe what they wnat to believe…

Weird… They say the believe in sola scirptura… but they don’t (sometimes) seem to believe in scripture at all… but that’s what happens when one takes a fish (the Word) out of water (the Church).

 

[distracted]

sorry distracted for the confusion…I am no theologian, but am willing to learn…

I guess I’m understanding ‘saved’ in OSAS as ‘saved from death’. If we are crucified with Christ and buried with him, our sins are ‘wiped off the slate’ but we are still dead from the crucifixion, still buried. It takes a separate process to resurrect us, to give us new life and make us a new creation, even as Jesus’ crucifixion is a separate process from the resurrection. Or even as baptism brings about remission of sin but that remission is not the same process as the infusion of sanctifying grace.

So, IMO, the man in the parable might have had his debt wiped off the slate by the king’s pardon but he hadn’t been granted new life so as to make him a new creature. He wasn’t necessarily alive from the dead…at least he wasn’t acting like it.

not sure i u/stand the 1st part so will address this last thing…

to have all one’s sins wiped off the slate would bring great freedom and new life. It is sin that kills us /makes us impure & unfit for Heaven so when sin is gone, we are “saved” & ready for Heaven . That’s my opinion… This passage proves that being forgiven is not the only thing we must accomplish to get to Heaven… or maybe it is… but one must do all Christ says in order to be forgiven… I can be “saved” perfectly but if i then sin (refuse to forgive)… my soul is no longer pure… & something has to happen b4 i can get back into God’s graces (and Heaven)… Repentence… and expiation. the guy in the passage did not repent of his unforgiveness…

Sin defiles the soul terribly, which is why there can be NO OSAS!

God bless…