Once Saved, Always Saved

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I knew this guy who was once a devout Baptist as a teenager. He attended church every week and behaved as a good Christian should behave. Of course, most Baptist churches teach the OSAS doctrine. So when he grew up, he went on to found his own pornography company and become an atheist. Believers of OSAS, please explain to me why this person is just as deserving to go to heaven as us still following in the footsteps of Christ are.
 
I have asked a question like this before and got the answer: He wasnt really saved in the first place.
How do YOU know you are saved then, if you believe in OSAS? hmmmm.
 
moo5009 said:
I knew this guy who was once a devout Baptist as a teenager. He attended church every week and behaved as a good Christian should behave. Of course, most Baptist churches teach the OSAS doctrine. So when he grew up, he went on to found his own pornography company and become an atheist. Believers of OSAS, please explain to me why this person is just as deserving to go to heaven as us still following in the footsteps of Christ are.
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There are hundreds of posts about this already - so why not search for them ?​

 
kristanl said:
I have asked a question like this before and got the answer: He wasnt really saved in the first place.
How do YOU know you are saved then, if you believe in OSAS? hmmmm.
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One get’s a very interesting answer to this question .
Cause deep down in his heart he became convicted( the now athesist} that he was not to be numbered among the saved,adopted the attitude that there was no way God was going to save him because of predestination.Or he became convicted that he is numbered to be among the saved so he knew he was predestined to among the saved,so it doesn’t matter what he did or believed.
Jesus by His sacrifice on the cross gained for believers forgiveness of any their sins.:confused:

and the wheel continues to turn.🤷
 
Reminds me of the two year stint I had with Calvary Chapel. Here is what I found funny:
One Sunday, it was “Baptism” day, and the pastor was basically displaying typical fundamentalist behavior. After bashing infant baptism, he would also bash mormons for their belief in baptizing dead people, and then bashing unitarian universialists for the OSAS antics. He would say “We do not believe in the Unitarian Universialists rhetoric about Jesus’ death absolving all sins, so if I commit adultery, I would be saved according to them.” What was funny was that he and his assistant pastors were preaching the OSAS rhetoric for quite awhile before that. :eek:

I should also point out that one of their members would commit suicide a week or two later after complaining about social security not letting him get back surgery. The pastor would then defend the OSAS rhetoric again during the funeral.
 
fbl9 said:
One get’s a very interesting answer to this question .
Cause deep down in his heart he became convicted( the now athesist} that he was not to be numbered among the saved,adopted the attitude that there was no way God was going to save him because of predestination.Or he became convicted that he is numbered to be among the saved so he knew he was predestined to among the saved,so it doesn’t matter what he did or believed.
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That is a gross distortion of the doctrine - which is not fatalistic, and does not ignore or destroy human responsibility. Nor is it any excuse for sin; that is like thinking that absolution from sin is an excuse to wallow in it. Those who do such things are laying up judgement & eternal damnation for themselves, because they are are trampling on the Cross. Christ died to save men from sin, not for sin:​

The several parts of the Gospel are against sin, as we shall show.

1. The doctrinal part of the Gospel. This is the part which flesh and blood is inclined to interpret as an encouragement to sin, and from which it takes occasion to abuse the Gospel:

i. The doctrine of God’s free and abounding grace (Romans 5.20-21). St. Paul had taught that where sin abounded grace did much more abound, and that grace did reign to eternal life. From this some are apt to take occasion to sin, as if they were encouraged to do so by grace (Romans 6.1). But with what detestation and abhorrence the Apostle speaks against it! Shall we sin either because grace abounds or that grace may abound! God forbid! And when men would do evil that good might come of it, he speaks like a son of thunder, and tells them that their damnation is just (Romans 3.8). St. Jude writes an epistle expressly against such people as turn the grace of God into wantonness, thus perverting the end of grace. He calls them ungodly men, and men ordained to this condemnation (Jude 4)…

http://www.gospeltruth.net/sos/sos_titlepage.htm

That is from “The Sinfulness of Sin”, which is the ideal book to read if one wants to understand why sin is to be avoided. It’s a Puritan classic, and I wish Catholics wrote books half as good. It is an unanswerable indictment of sin.
Jesus by His sacrifice on the cross gained for believers forgiveness of any their sins.:confused:

and the wheel continues to turn.🤷
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“What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can such faith save him? …You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only…? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2:14, 24, 26)

Thought I would share

by the way, you cant know if you are in the state of grace or not. If you did you would be God!

God Bless 😛
 
moo5009 said:
I knew this guy who was once a devout Baptist as a teenager. He attended church every week and behaved as a good Christian should behave. Of course, most Baptist churches teach the OSAS doctrine. So when he grew up, he went on to found his own pornography company and become an atheist. Believers of OSAS, please explain to me why this person is just as deserving to go to heaven as us still following in the footsteps of Christ are.
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Short answer, none of us is deserving to be saved but He does it anyway:).
 
moo5009 said:
I knew this guy who was once a devout Baptist as a teenager. He attended church every week and behaved as a good Christian should behave. Of course, most Baptist churches teach the OSAS doctrine. So when he grew up, he went on to found his own pornography company and become an atheist. Believers of OSAS, please explain to me why this person is just as deserving to go to heaven as us still following in the footsteps of Christ are.
Click to expand...
It is not a true statement that most Baptist churches teach the OSAS doctrine. Being Baptist is really more of a doctrinal distinctive than a particular denomination such as Lutheran or Presbyterian. Baptist Christians believe in believer’s baptism… that baptism is an outward sign of an inward reality. That is why they are labeled a Baptist church. In addition, Baptist churches tend to be independent churches as compared to other Protestant churches. Nobody deserves to go to Heaven on their own merit. Why do you think this person will be in Heaven in light of the book of 1 John and James chapter 2 “faith without works is dead”? He does not have a mark of being in Christ in how you described him. There appears to be a great amount of misunderstanding of Evangelical Christianity. Those who believe in the gospel to the end of their life with a progressive growing affection for God have great assurance that they have actually been born from above. In the church we have a mix of sheep and goats, wheat and tares, and adopted children of God and illegitmate children (bastards, children of Satan). For the Catholic Christian, why do you think you deserve to go to Heaven and this person described in the OP does not?
 
kristanl said:
I have asked a question like this before and got the answer: He wasnt really saved in the first place.
How do YOU know you are saved then, if you believe in OSAS? hmmmm.
Click to expand...
Catholic Christians tend to have a distorted view on what many of their seperated brothers and sisters believe in tha apparent OSAS doctrine. This seems to be a pattern with Catholics. We need to represent each other’s side correctly to have a meaningful and educational disccussion and debate on the doctrines that divide us. When the typical Catholic attackes the distorted understanding of the OSAS doctrine, it is very similar to a Protestant saying that Catholics worship Mary.
 
jpunto7 said:
Reminds me of the two year stint I had with Calvary Chapel. Here is what I found funny:
One Sunday, it was “Baptism” day, and the pastor was basically displaying typical fundamentalist behavior. After bashing infant baptism, he would also bash mormons for their belief in baptizing dead people, and then bashing unitarian universialists for the OSAS antics. He would say “We do not believe in the Unitarian Universialists rhetoric about Jesus’ death absolving all sins, so if I commit adultery, I would be saved according to them.” What was funny was that he and his assistant pastors were preaching the OSAS rhetoric for quite awhile before that. :eek:

I should also point out that one of their members would commit suicide a week or two later after complaining about social security not letting him get back surgery. The pastor would then defend the OSAS rhetoric again during the funeral.
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Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith does not believe in OSAS. They are Arminian in theology. Chuck Smith wiill teach the “Once saved always saved IF you don’t fall away” doctrinal position.
 
kristanl said:
I have asked a question like this before and got the answer: He wasnt really saved in the first place.
How do YOU know you are saved then, if you believe in OSAS? hmmmm.
Click to expand...
Some of the OSAS do not know if they are save until death and then find out they are not saved…OSAS is a false teaching of Calvin (I trhink) so its just a teaching of some people
 
Joe_Brown said:
“What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can such faith save him? …You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only…? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2:14, 24, 26)
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which works? those that bring death or life?
Thought I would share
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thanks
by the way, you cant know if you are in the state of grace or not. If you did you would be God!
Click to expand...
God Bless 😛
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by this you are placing yourself in a state of uncertainity. Do you doubt the absolution of your sins?When one’s sins are forgiven and they have not committed a sin since recieving forgiveness they are in a state of grace and you say that you can’t know this. It’s by faith in Jesus that one can know if they are in a state of grace.
 
2nd_Adam said:
Catholic Christians tend to have a distorted view on what many of their seperated brothers and sisters believe in tha apparent OSAS doctrine. This seems to be a pattern with Catholics. We need to represent each other’s side correctly to have a meaningful and educational disccussion and debate on the doctrines that divide us. When the typical Catholic attackes the distorted understanding of the OSAS doctrine, it is very similar to a Protestant saying that Catholics worship Mary.
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In another post you asked why I would be saved more then that other person. Well the OP stated the person is now an athiest. Do you believe that denying God is something that will bring you to heaven?
Second of all, I dont have a distorted view on the OSAS doctrine. Almost all of my friends believe in this. IF you accept Christ into your heart, you will be saved. There is nothing you can do that will cause you to be condemned… If you really are saved…
So what do you think I am not understanding? I’m asking the question if they thought that person was saved, and now hes not saved, then why was he saved in the first place/ how do people automatically believe he was not saved in the first place?

I would say that man was saved, and then decided to do certain things that pushed him further and further from the Lord. It is not up to me to determine whether or not someone is saved. It is up to God.

If I am wrong about this, please explain to me, and if you are Protestant (I’m not sure, can you tell me what type you are).
Thanks.
 
kristanl said:
In another post you asked why I would be saved more then that other person. Well the OP stated the person is now an athiest. Do you believe that denying God is something that will bring you to heaven?
Second of all, I dont have a distorted view on the OSAS doctrine. Almost all of my friends believe in this. IF you accept Christ into your heart, you will be saved. There is nothing you can do that will cause you to be condemned… If you really are saved…
So what do you think I am not understanding? I’m asking the question if they thought that person was saved, and now hes not saved, then why was he saved in the first place/ how do people automatically believe he was not saved in the first place?

I would say that man was saved, and then decided to do certain things that pushed him further and further from the Lord. It is not up to me to determine whether or not someone is saved. It is up to God.

If I am wrong about this, please explain to me, and if you are Protestant (I’m not sure, can you tell me what type you are).
Thanks.
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Athesist do not go to Heaven.

I am a Reformed Protestant, which is historic confessional Protestantism. Your friends probably attend a church which has a new non-Lordship or antinomianism theology which is false. Altar calls and sinners prayer conversions fall under decisional regeneration theology invented in the 2nd Great Awakening by a man named Charles Finney. It is a false doctrine that affects ungrounded Protestant churches. There is nothing in the Scriptures that speak about accepting Jesus into your hearts. Ask your friends to show you where in the Scriptures that we are to accept Jesus into our hearts to be saved. ;)You are right to be concerned about that kind of thinking in light of 1 John and James chapter 2. Here is a link to the historic Protestant position in what we are discussing.

monergism.com/directory/link_category/Doctrines-of-Grace/Perseverance-of-Saints/

The perseverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God’s power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives, and that only those who persevere until the end have been truly born again.
Wayne Grudem from Systematic Theology (pg. 788)
 
kristanl said:
I have asked a question like this before and got the answer: He wasnt really saved in the first place.
How do YOU know you are saved then, if you believe in OSAS? hmmmm.
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Who are you trusting for your salvation? The correct answer is your assurance.
 
2nd_Adam said:
There appears to be a great amount of misunderstanding of Evangelical Christianity.
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This is certainly true.

And a good reason for you to be here. 😃
2nd_Adam said:
Code: 
 Those who believe in the gospel to the end of their life with a progressive growing affection for God have great assurance that they have actually been born from above.
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It is very Catholic of you to say this. 👍
2nd_Adam said:
For the Catholic Christian, why do you think you deserve to go to Heaven and this person described in the OP does not?
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It is not Catholic to think that one “deserves to go to heaven”. On the contrary, if we all got what we deserved we would all burn in the Pit. On the contrary, it is by His great mercy that He suffered and died, that we might have life.
2nd_Adam said:
Catholic Christians tend to have a distorted view on what many of their seperated brothers and sisters believe in tha apparent OSAS doctrine. This seems to be a pattern with Catholics.
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Very few Catholics have studied it much, and many are only going by what they read here, and it varies from one end to the other. Like Sola Scriptura, not all those who adhere to it have the same understanding of what it means.
2nd_Adam said:
This seems to be a pattern with Catholics. We need to represent each other’s side correctly to have a meaningful and educational disccussion and debate on the doctrines that divide us. When the typical Catholic attackes the distorted understanding of the OSAS doctrine, it is very similar to a Protestant saying that Catholics worship Mary.
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Yes, this is a very accurate comparison.
2nd_Adam said:
I am a Reformed Protestant, which is historic confessional Protestantism.
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What does that mean? What history? what confession?
2nd_Adam said:
Code: 
  There is nothing in the Scriptures that speak about accepting Jesus into your hearts.  Ask your friends to show you where in the Scriptures that we are to accept Jesus into our hearts to be saved. ;)
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It is very Catholic of you to say this!

However, I don’t think that it is harmful for people to do this, do you?
2nd_Adam said:
Code: 
The perseverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God’s power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives, and that only those who persevere until the end have been truly born again.
Wayne Grudem from Systematic Theology (pg. 788)
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Thanks for citing a source on this. It does not come from the Apostles, so it is good to be able to research it 's origins.
 
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