Once Saved, Always Saved

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That is a gross distortion of the doctrine - which is not fatalistic, and does not ignore or destroy human responsibility. Nor is it any excuse for sin; that is like thinking that absolution from sin is an excuse to wallow in it. Those who do such things are laying up judgement & eternal damnation for themselves, because they are are trampling on the Cross. Christ died to save men from sin, not for sin:​

I have heard a certain known preacher state,a person will not be forgiven by the Father of their sin if they do not forgive their fellow man,yet that same person is still saved and if they were to die in this state said person would still gain heaven.
)[St. Jude writes an epistle expressly against such people as turn the grace of God into wantonness, thus perverting the end of grace. He calls them ungodly men, and men ordained to this condemnation (Jude 4)…**
So as in my words to which you replied …the word ordained the aiethist may have fallen into grave sin and was condemned for by the use of this verse to say that he was destined to fall…
That is from “The Sinfulness of Sin”, which is the ideal book to read if one wants to understand why sin is to be avoided. It’s a Puritan classic, and I wish Catholics wrote books half as good. It is an unanswerable indictment of sin.
That is true i have heard some very good teaching by those outside of the church sure wish they knew the true church.
 
you know it’s funny, I was talking to my boss who is baptist & he was talking about his “walk with God”.and he talked about the 1st time he was saved, the 2nd time he was saved, the 3RD TIME HE WAS SAVED & the FOURTH time he was saved, THATS when he was born again!!! I’m not sure Once Saved, Always Saved means what they think it means. I would Strongly urge people to read & commit to MEMORY

** Philippians 2:12**
**So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. **

I would also stress that once you are a believer, you have work to do, ya dont just kick up yer heels & say, now all I have to do is wait, It’s very presumptuous.
 
This is certainly true.

And a good reason for you to be here. 😃

It is very Catholic of you to say this. 👍

It is not Catholic to think that one “deserves to go to heaven”. On the contrary, if we all got what we deserved we would all burn in the Pit. On the contrary, it is by His great mercy that He suffered and died, that we might have life.

Very few Catholics have studied it much, and many are only going by what they read here, and it varies from one end to the other. Like Sola Scriptura, not all those who adhere to it have the same understanding of what it means.

Yes, this is a very accurate comparison.

What does that mean? What history? what confession?

It is very Catholic of you to say this!

However, I don’t think that it is harmful for people to do this, do you?

Thanks for citing a source on this. It does not come from the Apostles, so it is good to be able to research it 's origins.
I told you that I am very catholic. 🙂 I have much more in common with Orthodox Catholics than Liberal Protestants (I think?). How about co-laboring with me on the Mormon thread, sharing the truth in love. There will be a remnant in the Mormon Church who are being called out of the Mormon Religion. But, share the truth in love with Mormon believers. It is a different level of debate with Mormons in comparison with Protestants and Catholics (same family).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=385079
 
I told you that I am very catholic. 🙂 I have much more in common with Orthodox Catholics than Liberal Protestants (I think?). How about co-laboring with me on the Mormon thread, sharing the truth in love. There will be a remnant in the Mormon Church who are being called out of the Mormon Religion. But, share the truth in love with Mormon believers. It is a different level of debate with Mormons in comparison with Protestants and Catholics (same family).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=385079
I agree with you completely. Our differences are minor in comparison to our differences with Mormons.

However, I want to challenge you on something.

As I understand your beliefs, salvation is soley a work of grace that has nothing to do with our actions on earth.

Do you believe that the composition of the elect has anything to do with our efforts to evangelize?
 
I agree with you completely. Our differences are minor in comparison to our differences with Mormons.

However, I want to challenge you on something.

As I understand your beliefs, salvation is soley a work of grace that has nothing to do with our actions on earth.

Do you believe that the composition of the elect has anything to do with our efforts to evangelize?
Please understand my posting in the framework of Protestant theology. Justification (forensic) is a monogestic act (God alone). However, sanctifiction (tranformation process) is a synergistic act with both God and man (co-operative). In regards to evangelism, God determined the end (saving a people for Himself) through His appointed means (preaching Christ crucified). The means is through the preaching of the gospel of Christ and Him crucified which is foolishness to the non-elect. Since the elect is only known by God alone, we (Christians) preach the gospel to everyone. The elect respond to the gospel and endures to the end, because God’s seed is in them. The true child of God is disciplined by our Heavenly Father when we do not cooperate (Hebrews 12). The lack of discipline is a sign of being a bastard or a false professor of Jesus Christ. True children cling to Christ crucified, and that is why the Eucharist is an excellent sacrament if it brings you back to Christ and Him crucified as the center of our Faith. In regards to Mormonism, there is an absence of the cross in Mormon churches. It is the same with Islam which denies that Christ was crucified. Remove the cross in our faith, and there is no Christianity. God sent His Son into the world to die for us so we can live.

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
  • 1 Cor 1
 
Please understand my posting in the framework of Protestant theology. Justification (forensic) is a monogestic act (God alone). However, sanctifiction (tranformation process) is a synergistic act with both God and man (co-operative). In regards to evangelism, God determined the end (saving a people for Himself) through His appointed means (preaching Christ crucified). The means is through the preaching of the gospel of Christ and Him crucified which is foolishness to the non-elect. Since the elect is only known by God alone, we (Christians) preach the gospel to everyone. The elect respond to the gospel and endures to the end, because God’s seed is in them. The true child of God is disciplined by our Heavenly Father when we do not cooperate (Hebrews 12). The lack of discipline is a sign of being a bastard or a false professor of Jesus Christ. True children cling to Christ crucified, and that is why the Eucharist is an excellent sacrament if it brings you back to Christ and Him crucified as the center of our Faith. In regards to Mormonism, there is an absence of the cross in Mormon churches. It is the same with Islam which denies that Christ was crucified. Remove the cross in our faith, and there is no Christianity. God sent His Son into the world to die for us so we can live.

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
  • 1 Cor 1
I don’t understand your answer. I may be too dense.

Could you answer yes or no:

Do you believe that the composition of the elect has anything to do with our efforts to evangelize?
 
I don’t understand your answer. I may be too dense.

Could you answer yes or no:

Do you believe that the composition of the elect has anything to do with our efforts to evangelize?
Yes, in light of Romans 10. How happy are those who bring good news. We preach the gospel for the joy of it, and through obedience to the will of God. I am not a hyper-Calvinist. Hyper-Calvinism is heretical.

The Message of Salvation to All

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? [3] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for

“Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.”

19 But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says,

“I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation;
with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”

20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

“I have been found by those who did not seek me;
I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

21 But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
 
Yes, in light of Romans 10. How happy are those who bring good news. We preach the gospel for the joy of it, and through obedience to the will of God.
So our works impact the salvation of others, but not our own salvation?

Interesting.
 
So our works impact the salvation of others, but not our own salvation?

Interesting.
Of course we work out our salvation with fear and trembling, and make our calling and election sure according to Peter and Paul.

Straining Toward the Goal - Paul

12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
 
Don’t kid yourself.

You refuse to listen to the Church on many issues.
Galatians 3:28 (Revised Adam version)

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, no Protestant nor Catholic, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
Galatians 3:28 (Revised Adam version)

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, no Protestant nor Catholic, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
I don’t need to embellish scripture to make my point:

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
 
I don’t need to embellish scripture to make my point:

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
The church is the body of Christ. All those who are united to Christ by the Spirit of God makeup the universal catholic body of Christ. 😉
 
Paraphrasing Chesterton (brutally of course) he once said that he would take the claims of eugenicists and their ilk in regards to a master or superior race more serious if someone who held these beliefs stood up and claimed that their race was the inferior race.

Likewise I would look at Calvinism, double predestination and OSAS more respectively and seriously if someone who affirmed TULIP and OSAS would stand up and tell me that they are predestined to damnation. For instance, I would find the doctrines more intriguing if Calvin would have professed his beliefs followed by him stating that he was predestined for damnation.

Does anyone have any writings of someone who believed in either OSAS, and or double predestination and considered themselves among the damned? I would be very curious and intrigued.

Thank you and God bless
 
Galatians 3:28 (Revised Adam version)

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, no Protestant nor Catholic, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
What was that condemnation about adding to or subtracting from the words of the Bible :hmmm:

Oh here it is:
I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. Rev. 22: 18-19
Just saying 😉

God bless you
 
Paraphrasing Chesterton (brutally of course) he once said that he would take the claims of eugenicists and their ilk in regards to a master or superior race more serious if someone who held these beliefs stood up and claimed that their race was the inferior race.

Likewise I would look at Calvinism, double predestination and OSAS more respectively and seriously if someone who affirmed TULIP and OSAS would stand up and tell me that they are predestined to damnation. For instance, I would find the doctrines more intriguing if Calvin would have professed his beliefs followed by him stating that he was predestined for damnation.

Does anyone have any writings of someone who believed in either OSAS, and or double predestination and considered themselves among the damned? I would be very curious and intrigued.

Thank you and God bless
Election and damnation is certainly not determined before one dies from our perspective. How do you know that an apparent unbeliever will not believe by the grace of God through the Spirit at his death bed? Please do some studying from this site if you want to understand Reformed thinking:

monergism.com/
 
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