Once saved always saved.

[noobio]

“Once saved always saved” is biblical. Once saved always saved means that once you are saved you are always saved and can not lose salvation. But the “once saved” must occur.

The bible tells us that when we believe we are born again which enables us to go to heaven (John 3:3, Titus 3:5). To lose your savlation you would have to be un-regenerated. The bible does not give any evidence that bieng un-regenerated is possible. The bible says that when we accept Christ, we have eternal life when we accept him (John 3:5). If we lose our salvation, we lose eternal life,which means eternal life was never eternal. Therefore if losing salvation is possible there would be an error in the Bible. We can not lose salvation because we can not be seprated from God. Romans 8:38–39 says “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus”. Also, how can we lose salvation if God’s power can keep us from falling away (Jude 24)? Even Jesus said we can not fall away. John 10:28-29 says “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand”. What can seprate us from the Father or Son? Ephesians 4:30 says"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." If a follower of Christ does not have eternal security,then being sealed to the day of redemption is not possible.

 

[DaveBj]

“Once saved always saved” is biblical. Once saved always saved means that once you are saved you are always saved and can not lose salvation. But the “once saved” must occur.

The bible tells us that when we believe we are born again which enables us to go to heaven (John 3:3, Titus 3:5). To lose your savlation you would have to be un-regenerated. The bible does not give any evidence that bieng un-regenerated is possible. The bible says that when we accept Christ, we have eternal life when we accept him (John 3:5). If we lose our salvation, we lose eternal life,which means eternal life was never eternal. Therefore if losing salvation is possible there would be an error in the Bible. We can not lose salvation because we can not be seprated from God. Romans 8:38–39 says “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus”. Also, how can we lose salvation if God’s power can keep us from falling away (Jude 24)? Even Jesus said we can not fall away. John 10:28-29 says “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand”. What can seprate us from the Father or Son? Ephesians 4:30 says"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." If a follower of Christ does not have eternal security,then being sealed to the day of redemption is not possible.

So much there to respond to, so little time. I’m going to have to pick and choose.

Re John 3:5, if we have eternal life when we accept Jesus, what happens if we subsequently reject him?

Re Rom. 8:38-39, you misquoted it. That passage talks about being separated from the love of God, not separated from God Himself. One can be sunk deep in sin and not be loved by God. There is a difference between being loved by God and being saved.

Re John 8:28-29, surely you can see the difference between being snatched out of the Father’s hand (the action of a 3rd party) and deliberately choosing to leave the Father’s hand (my own action).

There are plenty of verses in the NT that show that one can, indeed. “lose” his salvation. And in the final analysis, the only thing that really matters is the person’s condition at the moment of his/her death.

DaveBj

 

[Ignatius]

“Once saved always saved” is biblical.

No my friend, it is not. If die in a state of Mortal Sin, you will not enter heaven, This is Catholic Doctrine. Catholics do not believe in the Protestant doctrine of “once saved always saved.” Not only was this teaching never taught in the early Church, there is no biblical basis for it, either. This subject has been discussed so many times I cannot count them all.

Every Catholic is called upon by the Church to make a “conscious decision to trust Christ for salvation.” But trusting Christ for salvation is not a one-time event (e.g., praying the sinner’s prayer). It is a lifelong commitment. In fact, the Church teaches that “reborn as sons of God, [the baptized] must profess before men the faith they have received from God through the Church and participate in the apostolic and missionary activity of the people of God” (CCC 1270). —Peggy Frye

Here are a couple of Bible based articles on the subject from right here on Catholic Answers:
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0203sbs.asp
catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

If you’s prefer to just listen, here’s an audio version: biblechristiansociety.com/download/mp3/once_saved_always_saved.mp3

Here’s another excellent presentation from a former Protestant pastor who once held to the false, unbiblical man-made doctrine of OSAS: catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0712btb.asp

There are thousands more, which I will be happy to present after you have responded in detail to each point made in each of these articles.

 

[Third_Day]

=noobio;7742393]“Once saved always saved” is biblical. Once saved always saved means that once you are saved you are always saved and can not lose salvation.

The bible does not teach OSAO or another way one could put it “once in grace always in grace”

But the “once saved” must occur.

Salvation is a process not a one-time for all event

The bible tells us that when we believe we are born again which enables us to go to heaven (John 3:3, Titus 3:5).

Those verses refer to baptism

To lose your savlation you would have to be un-regenerated. The bible does not give any evidence that bieng un-regenerated is possible. The bible says that when we accept Christ, we have eternal life when we accept him (John 3:5).

The bible teaches that salvation is conditional. We must cooperate with God’s grace. We must “remain in him” ( John 15)

If we lose our salvation, we lose eternal life,which means eternal life was never eternal. Therefore if losing salvation is possible there would be an error in the Bible.

Your interpretation of the bible is in error

We can not lose salvation because we can not be seprated from God. Romans 8:38–39 says “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus”.

You are claiming that what Paul is actually saying is “Neither life nor death nor adultery, fornication, murder, theft can separate us from the love of God.” God will always love us but unrepented sin will send a believer to hell.

1 John 1:9: “If we keep on confessing our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
Greek Homologomen, present subjective, durative.

Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
Ezek 18:4
For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul that sins will die.

Also, how can we lose salvation if God’s power can keep us from falling away (Jude 24)? Even Jesus said we can not fall away. John 10:28-29 says “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand”.

We must remain in Christ. We must continue in His grace.Sin is a rejection of His grace.
John 15:4-6
Remain in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, neither can you, unless you remain in me. I am the vine you are the branches. He who remains in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not remain in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers, and the branches are gathered together, thrown into the fire and burned

Paul said this to born again “saved” Christians.
Romans 11:21-22
”For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

What can seprate us from the Father or Son? Ephesians 4:30 says"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." If a follower of Christ does not have eternal security,then being sealed to the day of redemption is not possible.

One is sealed in baptism. That seal always remains. God will always take us back IF we choose to remain in Him through obedience and love.

 

[noobio]

So much there to respond to, so little time. I’m going to have to pick and choose.

Re John 3:5, if we have eternal life when we accept Jesus, what happens if we subsequently reject him?

A believer in Christ would not reject Christ. Once you are saved you are always saved. If someone was to reject God, he/she was never a believer(1 John 2:19) . Apostacy, is not the loss of salvation, but a good sighn that an apostast was never saved.

Re Rom. 8:38-39, you misquoted it. That passage talks about being separated from the love of God, not separated from God Himself. One can be sunk deep in sin and not be loved by God. There is a difference between being loved by God and being saved.

If a person is seperated from God’s love woudn’t that mean you are seperated from God. I thought God IS love. One who is saved has the precense of God and therefore also has His love.

Re John 8:28-29, surely you can see the difference between being snatched out of the Father’s hand (the action of a 3rd party) and deliberately choosing to leave the Father’s hand (my own action).

A true believer will not reject God, if he did he was never a true believer (1 John 2:19)

There are plenty of verses in the NT that show that one can, indeed. “lose” his salvation. And in the final analysis, the only thing that really matters is the person’s condition at the moment of his/her death.

DaveBj

 

[Third_Day]

=noobio;7742460]A believer in Christ would not reject Christ

.
Do you deny that we have a free will?

Once you are saved you are always saved. If someone was to reject God, he/she was never a believer(1 John 2:19) . Apostacy, is not the loss of salvation, but a good sighn that an apostast was never saved.

This was written to born again “saved” Christians
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the truth there **no longer remains a sacrifice **for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries….**how much worse punishment **do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified and outraged the Spirit of grace?..It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

An unbeliever is not sanctified by the blood of Christ.This person that sinned was **sanctified **by the blood of Christ and yet there is no sacrifice for his unrepented sin.

 

[Church_Militant]

Some Protestant has fed you a load of error my friend.

Here are the notes to John Martignoni’s Bible study on this subject.

And you can download his Bible study audio at

Once Saved, Always Saved?

 Learn how to defend against this false and dangerous doctrine

CA has a fine article on Assurance of Salvation? that you would do well to check out as well.

 

[Church_Militant]

A believer in Christ would not reject Christ. Once you are saved you are always saved. If someone was to reject God, he/she was never a believer(1 John 2:19) . Apostacy, is not the loss of salvation, but a good sighn that an apostast was never saved.

That’s not what Jesus says in the parable of the Sower and the seed. See Luke 8:5-15.

If a person is seperated from God’s love woudn’t that mean you are seperated from God. I thought God IS love. One who is saved has the precense of God and therefore also has His love.

Which is why Our Lord instituted the sacrament of Confession.

• Catholic Confession
• Scriptures About Penance
• "I Find No Sacraments In the Bible" he said.

A true believer will not reject God, if he did he was never a true believer (1 John 2:19)

Out of context it would seem correct, but look here at what St. John is talking about.

[18] Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour. [19] They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us; but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us.

 

[noobio]

The bible does not teach OSAO or another way one could put it “once in grace always in grace”

Salvation is a process not a one-time for all event

Those verses refer to baptism
.

I read the verses and I found no mention of baptism
The bible teaches that salvation is conditional. We must cooperate with God’s grace. We must “remain in him” ( John 15)

Your interpretation of the bible is in error
.

How so?

You are claiming that what Paul is actually saying is “Neither life nor death nor adultery, fornication, murder, theft can separate us from the love of God.” God will always love us but unrepented sin will send a believer to hell.
.

I never said you can commit adultery, murder, fornication

1 John 1:9: “If we keep on confessing our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
Greek Homologomen, present subjective, durative.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
Ezek 18:4
For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul that sins will die.
.

The verses you are refering to does not mention people who are saved

We must remain in Christ. We must continue in His grace.Sin is a rejection of His grace.
John 15:4-6
Remain in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, neither can you, unless you remain in me. I am the vine you are the branches. He who remains in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not remain in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers, and the branches are gathered together, thrown into the fire and burned
.

I don’t see how this disproves OSAS. Jesus is saying if you leave him, you will be thrown in the fire. A person who leaves and rejects Jesus was never a beleiver (1 John 2:19 ).

Paul said this to born again “saved” Christians.
Romans 11:21-22
”For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off..

As, I said before, if you reject Christ you were never saved (1 John 2:19). When the bible warns about apostasy it is warning about “easy believism”, it does not say you can lose your salvation.

One is sealed in baptism. That seal always remains. God will always take us back IF we choose to remain in Him through obedience and love.

If you are saying you get sealed in baptism meaning you get wet and through that you are saved, I disagree. But, I hope you mean “appealing to God for a good consiunce”. If the seal always remains then how can you lose your salvation? If the seal always remains, then your always saved.

 

[spockrates]

“Once saved always saved” is biblical. Once saved always saved means that once you are saved you are always saved and can not lose salvation. But the “once saved” must occur.

The bible tells us that when we believe we are born again which enables us to go to heaven (John 3:3, Titus 3:5). To lose your savlation you would have to be un-regenerated. The bible does not give any evidence that bieng un-regenerated is possible. The bible says that when we accept Christ, we have eternal life when we accept him (John 3:5). If we lose our salvation, we lose eternal life,which means eternal life was never eternal. Therefore if losing salvation is possible there would be an error in the Bible. We can not lose salvation because we can not be seprated from God. Romans 8:38–39 says “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus”. Also, how can we lose salvation if God’s power can keep us from falling away (Jude 24)? Even Jesus said we can not fall away. John 10:28-29 says “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand”. What can seprate us from the Father or Son? Ephesians 4:30 says"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." If a follower of Christ does not have eternal security,then being sealed to the day of redemption is not possible.

And you did not mention these words of our Lord and Savior:

“I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.”

(John 5:24)

Would you say, Noobio that if one who had life loses that life, then that life was not eternal because it did not last?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

**Mat 24:13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

Rom 11:22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness. Otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

1Co 9:27 But I chastise my body and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened to them in figure: and they are written for our correction, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore, he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 Have moreover tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God and making him a mockery.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins:
Heb 10:27 But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries.**

 

[noobio]

.
Do you deny that we have a free will?
.

As, a Christian it should be a obligation to stay with Christ.

.

This was written to born again “saved” Christians
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the truth there **no longer remains a sacrifice **for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries….**how much worse punishment **do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified and outraged the Spirit of grace?..It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

An unbeliever is not sanctified by the blood of Christ.This person that sinned was **sanctified **by the blood of Christ and yet there is no sacrifice for his unrepented sin.

How do you know that everyone who saw this letter was saved?

This passage does not teach you can lose salvation. If a person is an apostate he never had true faith. An apastate is someone who rejects salvation, and was NEVER saved. The passage is saying if keep on rejecting Christ, it is impossible to obtain salvation, and you have eternal death. The passage is talking about someone who may claim to believe but does not truly have faith in Christ.

 

[Third_Day]

=noobio;7742559]I read the verses and I found no mention of baptism

First you say you are Catholic. You don’t seem to be. Here is what the fathers of Protestantism say about Titus 3:5

Calvin Commentary on Titus ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom43.txt
By the **washing of regeneration **I have no doubt that he alludes, at least, to baptism.
Here is Protestant John Wesley interpretation of Titus 3:5
“Sanctification, expressed by the laver of regeneration, (that is, baptism)

Here is Protestant Matthew Henry’s interpretation of Titus 3: 5
“Here is the outward sign and seal thereof in baptism, called therefore the washing of regeneration

Even Martin Luther believed this.

Luther’s Small Catechism
lutheran.co.uk/docs/Small%20Catechism.pdf

The Sacrament of Holy Baptism
Certainly not just water, but the word of God in and with the water does these things,
along with the faith which trusts this word of God in the water. For without God’s word the
water is plain water and no Baptism. But with the word of God it is a Baptism, that is, a lifegiving water, rich in grace, and a washing of the new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St Paul says in Titus, chapter three:“He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthysaying.” [Titus 3:5–8]

How so?

Your interpretation is wrong because it goes against what Christianity has believed for 2000 years.

I never said you can commit adultery, murder, fornication

Actually you did. You believe once saved always saved. You then quoted from Paul who says nothing can separate us from the love of God. But Paul does not include sin. We know that sin can keep a Christian from entering heaven.
Paul says this to “saved” Christians
Galatians 5:19-21:
”Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, idolatry….I warn you as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God”

The verses you are refering to does not mention people who are saved

Are you saying that once you are “saved’ you CAN commit sin, not repent and still enter eternal life?

I

don’t see how this disproves OSAS. Jesus is saying if you leave him, you will be thrown in the fire. A person who leaves and rejects Jesus was never a beleiver (1 John 2:19

).
Jesus is saying this to people who believed in Him. And he tells them they must “remain” in Him. It is so clear “: IF a man DOES NOT REMAIN in me” he will be sent to hell.

As, I said before, if you reject Christ you were never saved (1 John 2:19). When the bible warns about apostasy it is warning about “easy believism”, it does not say you can lose your salvation.

If you commit adultery haven’t you rejected Christ?

If you are saying you get sealed in baptism meaning you get wet and through that you are saved, I disagree. But, I hope you mean “appealing to God for a good consiunce”. If the seal always remains then how can you lose your salvation? If the seal always remains, then your always saved.

Peter says “Baptism now saves you.” The question is will you remain saved? We have the free will to reject God’s grace.

 

[fred_conty]

“Once saved always saved” is biblical. Once saved always saved means that once you are saved you are always saved and can not lose salvation. But the “once saved” must occur.

The bible tells us that when we believe we are born again which enables us to go to heaven (John 3:3, Titus 3:5). To lose your savlation you would have to be un-regenerated. The bible does not give any evidence that bieng un-regenerated is possible. The bible says that when we accept Christ, we have eternal life when we accept him (John 3:5). If we lose our salvation, we lose eternal life,which means eternal life was never eternal. Therefore if losing salvation is possible there would be an error in the Bible. We can not lose salvation because we can not be seprated from God. Romans 8:38–39 says “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus”. Also, how can we lose salvation if God’s power can keep us from falling away (Jude 24)? Even Jesus said we can not fall away. John 10:28-29 says “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand”. What can seprate us from the Father or Son? Ephesians 4:30 says"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." If a follower of Christ does not have eternal security,then being sealed to the day of redemption is not possible.

Hi, I’m curious just why you are asking since you are a Catholic??? And believe in Serious sin! And the Body of Christ the Church, the dead members. And the vine and the dead branches. And the seperation of the weeds and the wheat. And the …

 

[Third_Day]

=noobio;7742615]As, a Christian it should be a obligation to stay with Christ.

Do Christians have the free will to reject Christ. Yes or no?

How do you know that everyone who saw this letter was saved

Wasn’t the writer of the letter a “saved” Christian? Yet in Hebrews 10:26 he says this
“For if we sin deliberately after receiving the truth there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment”
He includes himself as one that could deliberately sin and there would be no sacrifice.

This passage does not teach you can lose salvation. If a person is an apostate he never had true faith. An apastate is someone who rejects salvation, and was NEVER saved. The passage is saying if keep on rejecting Christ, it is impossible to obtain salvation, and you have eternal death. The passage is talking about someone who may claim to believe but does not truly have faith in Christ.

Doesn’t that quote say this?

"by the blood of the covenant **by which he was sanctified **
That proves this man was a believer. He was sanctified by the blood of Christ. Yet IF he deliberately sins he will have “outraged the Spirit of grace”

And here is what will happen to him
…It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

This was also said to “saved” Christians

Hebrews 6:4–6
“For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then fall away.”

Only believers partake of the Holy Spirit.

 

[noobio]

That’s not what Jesus says in the parable of the Sower and the seed. See Luke 8:5-15.Which is why Our Lord instituted the sacrament of Confession.

• Catholic Confession
• Scriptures About Penance
• "I Find No Sacraments In the Bible" he said.

Out of context it would seem correct, but look here at what St. John is talking about.

[18] Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour. [19] They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us; but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us.

1 John 2:19, is talking about people who were with Christ but left. The passage says, they were never really part of the fellowship. The verse before verse 19 says “my children, the end is near!; and now so many enemies of Christ appear, and so we know that the end is near”. So, it is saying that the people who left are enemies because they are not with Jesus. Mathew 12:30 says "Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me. So, basicly the apostates are against Jesus, and were never part of his fellowship

 

[Randy_Carson]

“Once saved always saved” is biblical.

Articles Refuting “Once Saved, Always Saved”

---

**Finders Keepers?
**The Evangelical notion that Christians can’t lose their salvation is unbiblical.
By Tim Staples
envoymagazine.com/backissues/1.1/nutsandbolts.html

John 3:16 and eternal security
By Steve Ray
catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9509fea2.asp

**Once Saved, Always Saved? **
By Jason Evert
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0203sbs.asp

 

[Church_Militant]

1 John 2:19, is talking about people who were with Christ but left. The passage says, they were never really part of the fellowship. The verse before verse 19 says “my children, the end is near!; and now so many enemies of Christ appear, and so we know that the end is near”. So, it is saying that the people who left are enemies because they are not with Jesus. Mathew 12:30 says "Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me. So, basicly the apostates are against Jesus, and were never part of his fellowship

Your translation is oversimplified and inaccurate.

The passage is not discussing apostates…but specifically anti-Christs and there’s a difference. There may be some overlap, but they are not one and the same.

 

[Third_Day]

1 John 2:19, is talking about people who were with Christ but left. The passage says, they were never really part of the fellowship. The verse before verse 19 says “my children, the end is near!; and now so many enemies of Christ appear, and so we know that the end is near”. So, it is saying that the people who left are enemies because they are not with Jesus. Mathew 12:30 says "Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me. So, basicly the apostates are against Jesus, and were never part of his fellowship

noobio you say you are Catholic but you have some Protestant beliefs. Since you won’t believe the Catholic Church on OSAS here is a book you should read
It is by a Baptist Theologian, Dr. Robert Shank. The book is Life in the Son. It is 368 pages of scripture and commentaries on passages that show a Christian can lose his salvation. He is also a Greek scholar and he points out that the inspired Greek of 1 John 1:9: says “If we keep on confessing our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
The Greek word there is Homologomen, present subjective, durative
We must continue to confess our sins. If we just confess ONCE when we accept Christ and never again how can we say we are assured salvation?

Here is what Dr. Shank has to say about 1 John 2:19

With respect to the anti-Christs cited by John, there are two possiblities. THeir professions of faith may have been false from the beginning or they may have been actual apostates who abandoned faith and withdrew from Christ. Either circumstance could be true. John asserts only that, at the time they withdrew from the spiritual fellowship of true believers “they were not of us” otherwise they would have continued in fellowship with the faithful…Let us observe that , after citing the tragic record of the anti-christs who denied that Jesus is the Christ (v18-23) John urgently warns his children in the faith to beware the peril of succumbing to the seduction of the antichrists by embracing their fatal heresy, thus failing to retain the true saving Gospel and to remain in the Son and in the Father, sharing eternal life in Him ( v 24-18)

 

[MarcoPolo]

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