Once Saved Always Saved

[Augustine3]

I’m curious perhaps my Protestant friends can help with this question. If a person is “once saved always saved” what happens to him he commits a mortal sin (if he breaks one of the ten commandments)?

God bless,

 

[fhansen]

Then he no longer was saved.

 

[Holly3278]

A person who believes in once saved always saved would say that he is still saved and that he is still going to Heaven. However, in reality that person would have committed a grave sin which depending on the circumstances, may have been mortally sinful for him.

 

[Crdl2Grv]

I can’t speak for all (or any, really) people who believe that once someone is saved then they are always saved. But I believe the response would be that if the person commits a grave or mortal sin, then he/she was never saved in the first place. When one is truly saved, God sends enough grace to allow one to live the rest of one’s life without committing any grave or mortal sins.

 

[Holly3278]

I fear both for those who believe in once saved always saved and especially for those who teach that false doctrine. The reason is because I fear that this false doctrine has lead many people into a false sense of security about their salvation and hence has lead many people straight to the pit of Hell because they believed that once they were “saved” they could commit all the sins they want without worrying about it.

 

[Augustine3]

I can’t speak for all (or any, really) people who believe that once someone is saved then they are always saved. But I believe the response would be that if the person commits a grave or mortal sin, then he/she was never saved in the first place. When one is truly saved, God sends enough grace to allow one to live the rest of one’s life without committing any grave or mortal sins.

I’m having trouble understanding this…How is one to know for certain if he is in fact saved the moment he believes in Jesus Christ? You would only know with certainty once you’ve reached the end of your life without committing a singly mortal sin?

God bless,

 

[Tyler1234]

Well, correct me if I’m wrong guys, but mortal sins can be corrected through repentance and confession. If, at the time of death, the only sins left with the person are venial sins, then they will be admitted to purgatory, and not hell.
So, if one commits a mortal sin, but confesses it, then he is forgiven by God.
Again, I’m not even a catholic yet, so please correct me if I’m wrong!

 

[Crdl2Grv]

I’m having trouble understanding this…How is one to know for certain if he is in fact saved the moment he believes in Jesus Christ? You would only know with certainty once you’ve reached the end of your life without committing a singly mortal sin?

God bless,

My understanding is that there are some times when they’re not actually certain that they’re saved. I remember reading “The Unlikely Disciple” which was written by a sophomore at Brown University who went “undercover” as a student at Liberty University for a year. There were times when students who had previously been “saved” would walk down to the front of the crowd at one of the big services and get “saved” all over again. The author expected everyone to ask the obvious question, “So… were you lying before, or what?” But everyone was so excited that they would just blow right past it and be like, “Yay! Billy’s saved!”

Later on, the author would ask the person what they were thinking and the response was usually something like, “Well, I thought I was saved. But then I got to Liberty and realized that I wasn’t.”

That’s the best explanation I can give you. But you should probably wait until someone who actually believes in OSAS weighs in before you draw too many conclusions.

Oh yeah - also, I suspect that someone who believes in OSAS would tell you that because you can’t look into someone else’s heart/mind, you can never actually be certain if someone else is saved. You can only be sure about yourself.

 

[Augustine3]

Well, correct me if I’m wrong guys, but mortal sins can be corrected through repentance and confession. If, at the time of death, the only sins left with the person are venial sins, then they will be admitted to purgatory, and not hell.
So, if one commits a mortal sin, but confesses it, then he is forgiven by God.
Again, I’m not even a catholic yet, so please correct me if I’m wrong!

Correct – I hope you do make it to the Catholic church; we your brothers and sisters in Christ are waiting for you to come home.

God bless,

 

[Little_One0307]

I’m having trouble understanding this…How is one to know for certain if he is in fact saved the moment he believes in Jesus Christ? You would only know with certainty once you’ve reached the end of your life without committing a singly mortal sin?

God bless,

That is correct. From Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Ludwig Ott.

Without special Divine Revelation no one can know with the certainty of faith, if he be in the state of grace. [De Fide]

Against the teaching of the Reformers, that the justified possess certainity of faith which excludes all doubt about their justification, the Council of Trent declared: “If one considers his own weakness and his defective dispositions he may well be fearful and anxious as to his state of grace, as nobody knows with the certainity of faith, which permits of no error, that he has achieved the grace of God.” D. 802

S. Scripture bears witness to the uncertainity of the state of justification. 1 Cor. 4:4 “For I am not concious to myself of anything. Yet am I not hereby justified.” Phil. 2:12 “With fear and trembling work out your salvation.” [NOTE this is my comment - if once saved always saved, why would one have to work out their salvation???]

The reason for the uncertainty of the state of grace lies in this that without a special revelation nobody can with certainity of faith know whether or not he has fulfilled all the conditions which are necessary for the achieving of justification. The impossibility of the certainity of faith, however, by no means excludes a high moral certainity supported by the testimony of conscience. Cf. S. th. I Part 2 112, 5.

---

Also once saved always saved is a sin against hope by presumption. What need would one have to have in God if one was saved no matter what? He could hope in himself.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

Well, correct me if I’m wrong guys, but mortal sins can be corrected through repentance and confession. If, at the time of death, the only sins left with the person are venial sins, then they will be admitted to purgatory, and not hell.
So, if one commits a mortal sin, but confesses it, then he is forgiven by God.
Again, I’m not even a catholic yet, so please correct me if I’m wrong!

Tyler1234,

Mortal sins can be remitted through an Act of Perfect Contrition with the intention that one will go to Sacramental Confession as soon as possible as well.

Now if one dies and does not have the chance to go to Confession, but repents and is sorry for them and expresses that sorrow to God in ways that are unkown to us, then God will forgive those mortal sins as well, and the person who dies in this state can also be admitted to Purgatory.

If someone dies but has no venial sins or mortal sins on them, but has not satisfied the temporal punishment that was due to their sins committed on earth, then they will enter purgatory until that temporal punishment is satisfied.

Pretty good there. A welcome home to the Catholic Church is in order. God bless you.

 

[Adam95]

I was raised in an independent fundamental Baptist church, so I will answer the OP’s question from the IFB perspective.

First it is important to understand that we did not believe in a difference between veinial and mortal sins. The belief is that ALL sin is mortal sin. Someone who has not committed mortal sin will still be damned if they have not accepted Christ, so therefore all sin is mortal sin.

The belief is that Christ atoned for ALL sin at his death, so if one accepts the gift of atonement all their sins past, present, and future are washed away.

Secondly, we would have denied that someone was truly saved if they left the faith and renounced it all together, but we still believed that someone could mess up pretty bad and never loose salvation. For instance, if someone had an extramarital affair, but repented and turned from their wicked ways, in our eyes even though that person messed up badly, they were at no point ‘unsaved’.

 

[Holly3278]

I was raised in an independent fundamental Baptist church, so I will answer the OP’s question from the IFB perspective.

First it is important to understand that we did not believe in a difference between veinial and mortal sins. The belief is that ALL sin is mortal sin. Someone who has not committed mortal sin will still be damned if they have not accepted Christ, so therefore all sin is mortal sin.

The belief is that Christ atoned for ALL sin at his death, so if one accepts the gift of atonement all their sins past, present, and future are washed away.

Secondly, we would have denied that someone was truly saved if they left the faith and renounced it all together, but we still believed that someone could mess up pretty bad and never loose salvation. For instance, if someone had an extramarital affair, but repented and turned from their wicked ways, in our eyes even though that person messed up badly, they were at no point ‘unsaved’.

I attended an IFB church a while before I converted to Catholicism. They believed that once you were saved, you remained so regardless of what you did. Even if you were to completely forsake the church, you were still saved in their view.

 

[babylonsfalling]

I’m curious perhaps my Protestant friends can help with this question. If a person is “once saved always saved” what happens to him he commits a mortal sin (if he breaks one of the ten commandments)?

God bless,

They don’t necessarily believe in mortal sins anyway.

But they do have a problem when people in their church might get saved and then go right on living exactly as they did before, or don’t fall in line with their religion. This could involve mortal sin behavior by Catholic definition but they wouldn’t call it that. Most of the time it involves reveling in the same sins they always reveled in, might be continuing to party all night at the local bar and screw around on your wife, something like that. It COULD easily be disagreeing with some part of their religion even after they try to convince you otherwise. It could also be leaving their church for another one.

Either way, they do maintain a back-door route to claiming that someone who says they’re saved, or who they truly believed was saved, is actually NOT saved, rather than saying they LOST their salvation.

If the person doesn’t behave right or fall in line with their religion, they just DECIDE they were wrong to believe the person was saved, change their minds and start believing the person was never REALLY saved to begin with.

It’s the lesser of two admissions. It’s easier for them to say they were wrong about this one person’s salvation than to say they were wrong about OSAS…

 

[Karen1960]

I was raised in an independent fundamental Baptist church, so I will answer the OP’s question from the IFB perspective.

First it is important to understand that we did not believe in a difference between veinial and mortal sins. The belief is that ALL sin is mortal sin. Someone who has not committed mortal sin will still be damned if they have not accepted Christ, so therefore all sin is mortal sin.

The belief is that Christ atoned for ALL sin at his death, so if one accepts the gift of atonement all their sins past, present, and future are washed away.

Secondly, we would have denied that someone was truly saved if they left the faith and renounced it all together, but we still believed that someone could mess up pretty bad and never loose salvation. For instance, if someone had an extramarital affair, but repented and turned from their wicked ways, in our eyes even though that person messed up badly, they were at no point ‘unsaved’.

Hi Adam.
To further understand, what you are saying, if a person who believes in OSAS, if he should fall into sin years later and refuses to repent, is that person still considered saved if for example he dies instantly in a car wreck on his way home from cheating on his wife?

I can understand OSAS in the context that you explain earlier, That is somewhat simialr, to a Catholic, who confesses his sins and is truly sorry for offending God.

 

[Augustine3]

Secondly, we would have denied that someone was truly saved if they left the faith and renounced it all together, but we still believed that someone could mess up pretty bad and never loose salvation. For instance, if someone had an extramarital affair, but repented and turned from their wicked ways, in our eyes even though that person messed up badly, they were at no point ‘unsaved’.

What if that person did not repent would he still be saved?

God bless,

 

[Zenas]

Adam95 got it right in Post #12. Let me hasten to say that I find OSAS to be utterly ridiculous at all levels. It is false teaching and a dangerous doctrine, and is the main reason I am here. HOWEVER, it is advocated by all Baptists I know of except Freewill Baptists and General Baptists. For example, here is what the Southern Baptist statement of faith says about this subject:

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

As Adam95 stated, OSAS believers also believe that when a person is saved, all sins are forgiven, past, present and future. So committing a mortal sin many years after being saved makes no difference. It is already forgiven before it is committed.

 

[Adam95]

What if that person did not repent would he still be saved?

God bless,

From my experience, so long as that person did not deny the faith, they would be considered saved, but out of fellowship with God. The teaching I grew up with was that an unsaved person was less miserable than a saved person who was out of fellowship with God.

If the person denied the faith, the people of the congregation would say they were never saved to begin with because they never had true faith in their heart of hearts. Basically, they were faking their faith.

 

[Adam95]

Hi Adam.
To further understand, what you are saying, if a person who believes in OSAS, if he should fall into sin years later and refuses to repent, is that person still considered saved if for example he dies instantly in a car wreck on his way home from cheating on his wife?

Yes. If they refuse to repent, but still maintain faith, then they would still be considered saved. Once saved, they are always saved. But for those who deny their faith, we would have said they were never saved, they were phony, and never truly believed in Christ in their heart of hearts.

I can understand OSAS in the context that you explain earlier, That is somewhat similar, to a Catholic, who confesses his sins and is truly sorry for offending God.

The belief was that most people who had a genuine faith in Christ and wandered away into sin would repent and return. One pastor I sat under taught that those who wander and are unrepentant, God would remove (by death), so to keep them from further embarrassing the faith.

 

[PJM]

=Augustine3;8273752]I’m curious perhaps my Protestant friends can help with this question. If a person is “once saved always saved” what happens to him he commits a mortal sin (if he breaks one of the ten commandments)?

God bless,

EXCELENT QUESTION:thumbsup:

OSAS is a man-made [Calvin] doctrine that amny should believe; but IMO, anyone who read the Bible ought to give careful and prayerful consideration to.

Here is a PROTESANT site to check **out www.straitwaytruth.com/B]

Here is Christ OWn Teaching on th matter:

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

1John.5 Verses 16 to 1 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”

God Bless you,
Pat**