Once Saved Always Saved?

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Dying in a state of mortal sin always means Hell period!

Thanks be to God that He gives us freedom of the will and does not turn us into puppets!
 
steve_b said:
Rom 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” That cetainly is true in the case of the thief who was dieing next to Christ. But he was in the throws of dieing when he called out to Jesus, and did die within an hour or so of making that call to Him. I don’t see this passage as a gurantee for someone who makes that statement 40 years before they die, as being a once for all statement regardless of how one lives their life.

*Jn 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears *my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
That’s a nice summary statement. Belief is not some intellectual exercise. It’s putting into practice all that you’ve heard from Him with obedience to all the conditions and requirements He gave. Otherwise “believes” is a dead word void of true biblical context and meaning.
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Once saved always saved is the belief of some Pentecost sects. Once saved means that God’s grace is upon one person. By his sins he/she loses that grace , but it can be regained by sincere repentance. Gord’s grace means grace of knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil. If we do not use that faculty and go on committing sins and claiming “once saved always saved” we cannot be saved. The Catholic Church never teaches "once saved always saved "

Nishkalank
 
The protestant precip of OSAS was put forth precisely to refute the Catholic sacrament of reconciliation. The revolters against the Church put forth doctrines to refute nearly all Catholic doctrines. OSAS has no basis is scripture, or historical church teachings of any kind. Scripture says to be aware of people who preach a new doctrine, this is one along with sola scriptura, the rapture, faith alone, all of these ‘new’ doctrines just to refute Catholic doctrines. Anyone with a mind to seek the truth will not fall for this, only a willful soul not willing to follow the truth with faith in their heart and mind, These ‘new’ ways are meant to be easy for the believer, they do not demand perseverance, I think they allow satan into the equation and that can destroy souls. Imagine, “I am saved, I don’t need to repent.” that just doesn’t sound right.😉
 
Cat_Herder said:
Well this is what your church says it means.

*B. Justification is God’s gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.
…
All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation *

These two statements contradict each other unless babies and children are also subject to the requirement to “repent and believe in Christ” or else go to hell.

I’m asking you to resolve this, please.
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What’s the contradiction? And how does it apply to babies? I’m really not seeing it.
 
You could think of it more like a Father (God) and his children (us).

You might disobey your father and he will dicipline you, but he doesn’t disown you.
 
Calgar said:
What’s the contradiction? And how does it apply to babies? I’m really not seeing it.
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The contradiction is in the statement that is put forth by most adherents to the eternal security/OSAS concept: that children are too young to commit actual sin and are thereby justified by this lack of ability but when they attain the age of reason (the point where sin can be understood and committing actual personal sin becomes possible) they then require an acceptance of Christ on a personal level.

It is illogical to say that lack of ability justifies a person (a fundamental state of being) then at a certain age that justification vanishes and must be re-obtained through altar calls, sinners prayers, etc.
Calgar said:
You could think of it more like a Father (God) and his children (us).

You might disobey your father and he will dicipline you, but he doesn’t disown you.
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This is true but like the prodigal son we all have the opportunity and ability to demand our inheritance (through Adam this is sin and death) and walk away from God who is the only way to salvation, heaven, happiness, etc.

Discipline and salvation are connected but not the same. We are all disciplined for our transgressions either in this life, in purgatory, or (God Forbid) in hell. Look at David for instance, he was disciplined by the loss of his son. Compare him to those of whom Jesus speaks when he says “Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven”. One was disciplined on earth while the others were disciplined with the loss of their salvation. Perhaps not the best examples but I think it gets my point across.
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
The contradiction is in the statement that is put forth by most adherents to the eternal security/OSAS concept: that children are too young to commit actual sin and are thereby justified by this lack of ability but when they attain the age of reason (the point where sin can be understood and committing actual personal sin becomes possible) they then require an acceptance of Christ on a personal level.

It is illogical to say that lack of ability justifies a person (a fundamental state of being) then at a certain age that justification vanishes and must be re-obtained through altar calls, sinners prayers, etc.
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I don’t believe it’s a lack of ability. A young child can certainly commit sin. I believe it’s a lack of understanding. Is it sin if you’re ignorant that it’s sin?
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
Jesus speaks when he says “Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven”. One was disciplined on earth while the others were disciplined with the loss of their salvation.
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  1. There are many people in church today who are not Christians, who attend either to hide (witches) or to fit in (me in my teens). They call Christ Lord, but never truly mean it.
  2. Everyone will call Jesus Lord in the end, even those bound for hell.
 
Calgar said:
You could think of it more like a Father (God) and his children (us).

You might disobey your father and he will dicipline you, but he doesn’t disown you.
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Sometimes the children run away from the parents…
 
Calgar said:
I don’t believe it’s a lack of ability. A young child can certainly commit sin. I believe it’s a lack of understanding. Is it sin if you’re ignorant that it’s sin?
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You are ignoring the existence of original sin. See Romans 3:23 and Psalm 91. The issue is not whether they are sinners but whether they are justified.

Jesus nevertheless said the kids had the Kingdom of God. I’m asking you where in the Bible it says that they lose it upon hitting a certain age.
 
Cat herder is the best!!!👍

Love those quick answers of yours, and I thank you for them…albeit, I learn too…oops!

😃
 
DENNYINMI said:
One of the easiest (always better) ways of disputing the OSAS dispute, is the fact that most OSAS believers believe we are saved by faith alone.

However, I find it interesting that the Biblical definition of Faith is:

1Now faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not…Hebrews 11:1…

How does one maintain the hope of things that appear not…when they have jumped the horse directly into the cart, by removing “hope”???
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The word translated “evidence” in that passage is translated “confidence” elsewhere. You’re thinking of “hope” in the vernacular of “hope so,” when biblical hope is not “hope so,” but confidence in the one who promises: God.
 
Sig said:
Here’s the conclusion of that passage: Heb 10:39: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
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I’m not sure what you are trying to say. In verse 29 it is clear that Paul’s warning is directed to Christians who have been saved.
 
Calgar said:
You could think of it more like a Father (God) and his children (us).

You might disobey your father and he will dicipline you, but he doesn’t disown you.
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You can, however, disown Him because He loves you too much to keep you chained to the house.
 
Cat_Herder said:
And so your conclusion is that Paul is a waffle?
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No. My conclusion is that the elect cannot lose their salvation.

That is also the conclusion of the Roman Catholic Church in its doctrine of election to eternal blessedness, a doctrine you must believe de fide.
 
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