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Sig
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I’m sorry to hear that.
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Lisa44
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I’m pretty sure that the pillar and foundation is Jesus Christ. But I’ve been told by Catholics that I interpret 1 Tim 3:15 wrong.
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Lisa44
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You’re telling me to read it!? It is right there before your eyes and yet you still think that believers will be broken off the tree for sins?
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Lisa44
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I am very happy to hear that you are sure that St. Peter is in heaven.
Now if you could just explain how you know he lost his salvation then we would be getting somewhere.
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Miriam1947
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Loose=adjective
1 not firmly or tightly fixed in place : a loose tooth | the truck’s trailer came loose.
lose=verb ( past and past part. lost |lôst; läst|) trans. ]
1 be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something)
You have a loose belt, you can lose your salvation.
And no Peter did not, that is why we call him Saint Peter. It means he is in heaven.
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fhansen
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They lacked faith, so they were broken off, even though they were Gods chosen people. Believers would have no reason to tremble-or refrain from arrogance- if their salvation was guaranteed.
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fhansen
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I never said I knew he lost salvation. Another thing only God could know.
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fhansen
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This is one of those verses that don’t need interpretation unless someone wants to change its’ meaning for some reason.
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Sig
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I have perseverance.
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Sig
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I’m ROFL
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paul_c
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Sig, I addressed that in the very first note in which I explained Catholic Sotierology. The Catholic Church teaches that while baptism is the normative way in which grace is given, it is not the only way. There are two exceptions. The baptism of blood, which applies to those that die for the Faith before being baptized and the baptism of desire, which has broader application. You see, if you were not physically able to be baptised but would have desired it had it been available to you, then God will accept your intent. This applies to the saints of the Old Testament and to those who never heard of Christianity but otherwise lived lives of love. Its scriptural support lies in the case of St. Dismas, who desired to be baptized when on the cross next to Jesus but of course we physically unable to do so. Further, the Church teaches that after Jesus’ death on the cross, he went to preach to the dead, redeeming those who loved and did the will of God.
As for what you haven’t proven , you haven’t proven your case that men, once saved are always saved. Your entire thesis rests on interpretations of scripture based on the Traditions of John Calvin and you certainly haven’t proven his credibility. In your heart, you must know that this is true. We can and have shown you multiple scriptural readings that refute your proof text but we all know that it ultimately comes down to the credibility of the CAtholic tradition vs that of Calvin published for the first time less than 500 years ago. What can you do to prove the credibility of your tradition, when Calvin readily admits to having created it…
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paul_c
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Lisa, you would be a lot more credible if you actually reported what I said in a factual matter. It right in the thread so anyone can see that you are distorting what I said.
St. Peter did not regain his salvation through his tears. He reconciled himself to God through contrition, confession, repentence and penance, just like any other Catholic would. These are the same words I used before.
It seems like you are having trouble grasping the concept of falling out of grace by sin and regaining it through the sacrament of reconciliation. Why is that, since you call yourself a Catholic?
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paul_c
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19 They promise them freedom, though they themselves are slaves of corruption, for a person is a slave of whatever overcomes him.
20 For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of [our] Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down* to them.
Isn’t it clear that verse 20 is referring to people who had escaped the defilements (sin) of the world through the knowledge (faith) in Jesus that fall back into sin and are condemned.
Now, perhaps your adherance to the Calvinist tradition will not allow you to see that you can indeed lose your salvation through sin. That would be just one more example of the subordination of scripture to tradition. And again, your tradition was clearly invented by John Calvin less than 500 years ago. How can you claim it was divinely inspired?
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paul_c
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Sig,Lisa, notice that Paul is admitting that he can’t prove anything about the veracity of Catholic teachings (so really, what’s the point of listening to him anymore?), and that being able to prove something true isn’t really important to him.
What is important to Paul is that the Catholic church is Oooooooold.
Paul believes in Catholicism not because he can prove its positons are correct, but because they are “ancient.”
You do recognize that everything we write on this website is recorded for posterity, right? And when you make up things like the above, it can easily be checked by anyone, thus reducing the credibility of the author. Consider that next time.
Now let me remind you what I really said.
The Catholic Church is credible because it can easily be shown that it has continuity of leadership and doctrine from Jesus to the Apostles to the Early Church Fathers all the way to the current Church. Do the research for yourself if you like. You can easily find the list of 264 Popes from St. Peter to Pope Benedict XVI. You can read the early church fathers and see that they taught the same things about baptism, grace and repentence. You can see that they clearly believed you could fall from grace and that they believed int he real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. You can read about the countless miracles demonstrating God’s hand in all this, even into this century. Read about Lourdes or Fatima or our Lady of Guadalupe or the stigmata of Padre Pio or the incorruptibles Including Bernadette Of lourdes and Jacinto of Fatima.
And recognize that the Catholic Church is the body of Christ. It has survived persecutions, wars, heresies, schisms, corruption, scandals, plagues etc. for 2000 years and has over 1 Billion adherents across the world. And remember, its priests and religious give up everything ; vowing poverty, chastity and obedience to bring the faith to the people. That is a level of commitment that most faiths can not match. That adds substantially to their moral authority.
Also recognize that the catholic church is by far the largest charitable organization in the world. It has countless hospitals and schools everywhere. Catholic Charities and relief services do wonderful work in the poorest areas in the world… Look at what Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta accomplished with the poorest of the poor in Calcutta and around the world.
While it is true that the Church isn’t perfect, (it is afterall, a hospital for sinners), it is extremely credible.
So before you make a statement that I believe in the credibility of the Catholic Church because its old, consider the fact that I might have thought about it more than that.
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