Once saved always saved ?

[mackbrislawn]

You never have to tell someone how to sin. Even from the youngest age we see sin revealed because it is in their nature. But you have to tell people how to be good.

Without Gods grace we are hopelessly lost.

The devil encourages us to sin. The point is, if there is no free will, why would the devil need to encourage us to sin? We would sin without him! But, with God’s grace we can resist his temptations and encouragements.

 

[mackbrislawn]

If we are only certain about our salvation upon judgement day, when we answer to God, what benefit does it give us to lead godly lives and believe in him? Doesn’t it seem capricious?

I think that there are definite standards about salvation. It’s obviously through faith. But one can be sure they are saved if their faith produces good fruit (cf. James).[/Q

point in our lives, we will abandon or deny the faith, and become terrible unrepentant sinners. That is what we are unsure about. We are not unsure about God’s capacity for forgiveness, but are unsure about whether or not we will stumble before finishing the race. This was Paul’s uncertainty. Also, he didn’t want to sound too cocksure about it to the other Christians of his day; it was an indirect warning to them not to be presumptious; the whole of the New Testament is full of warnings not to fall away. Christians had fallen away, and Paul let on that even he was not immune from falling away before the finish of the race.

Yes, if your faith is producing good fruit, there is nothing to be worried about. Rely on God’s grace to pull you through tough times and He will help you to the finish line.

John Calvin’s God is the capricious one. At the Judgement day, He may say, “yes indeed, you did good words and all, produced a lot of fruit, led a godly life, but that does not matter, because I did not create you as one of the elect!”

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[JonNC]

Hi Jon,

In other words, the devil is trying to get us to despair when he reminds us of our sins? However, Luther says in order to counter this, no need to despair even when confronted with the enormity of our sins, but keep on plugging away anyway?

So, Luther’s words are not, as some have inferred, advice to go ahead and sin some more and enjoy it, since our sins do not affect our relationship with God?

Of course Catholics also rely the Savior to forgive us when we confess. although Jesus says to go and sin no more. If we do sin willingly after that, relying on His forgiveness, Catholics call it presumption–not a good practice. Because to many it sounds as if Luther is negating Jesus’ command to go and sin no more. But that is not really Luther’s point after all?

Mack

And Luther would say confess, and go and sin no more, as well. But don’t let a fear of sinning keep you from doing to good works He calls us to do.
Again, this is a personal letter, not a doctrinal statement. Melanchthon can fill in the blanks that he and Luther already understand - confession and Holy Absolution being one of them.

Jon

 

[mek42]

Thank God for the Sacrament of Confession huh! I just wish others could see this, and what a great gift this is, instead of seeing it as a burden on us.

Especially when it takes much burden off.

I was raised RC and then practiced in the Free Methodist tradition for awhile in HS and early college. I don’t think this statement describes a complete understanding of why the Protestants I was exposed to (mostly Free Methodists and Wesleyans) see Catholic Confession.

The burden, as it were, to a Methodist (Methodist for the rest of this post refers to Free Methodist - I do not remember the exact differences between Free and United), is not the need for the act of repentance to be a continuing activity, but rather, the need for clerical intercession. When a devout Methodist sins, they engage in direct prayer to express sorrow directly to God and seek assistance doing better in the future. Thus are they returned to a good relationship with God.

The Protestants I knew were just as concerned with false repentance and sincere desire to sin less in the future as devout Catholics are, they just (strongly) disagreed with the need or utility of human (priestly) intercession as the vehicle of communicating sorrow over sinning to God. Thus, they think that the Catholic burden is the need to wait for the unburdening of a formal Confession with a priest instead of being able to confess directly to God and receive more immediate comfort.

I hope this helps. Sorry it isn’t directly about OSAS.