One brave women who said NO to Muhammed.

[planten]

There are no other problems. In fact, this is not one, either.

Women cannot be priests. If you do not like it, talk to God. Men cannot be mothers. If you do not like it, talk to God.

God never said life is FAIR. What he says is that He is JUST.

The fact that, in the past, women could not own land had nothing to do with the faith. It was a cultural issue.

Besides, can a woman be a leader of Muslims in prayer? Be an IMan or sheik or whatever? Can a woman be ayatolla?

But there were a few other problems such as inheriting property and right to vote etc. There is a blame on the women that they are evil one who misled Adam. They are not to be trusted. They do not have soul.

I must say, there is quite a lot of material against the women in bible. I hope you can gather all that material and dump it here on the net please. Thanks.

 

[ralphinal]

But there were a few other problems such as inheriting property and right to vote etc. There is a blame on the women that they are evil one who misled Adam. They are not to be trusted. They do not have soul.

I must say, there is quite a lot of material against the women in bible. I hope you can gather all that material and dump it here on the net please. Thanks.

No one ever said that women do not have souls. The Catholic Church has always exaulted women and their main calling: that of motherhood.

The right to vote has nothing to do with faith. It is a social matter. One of the reasons used to deny them the right was that they were poorly educated. Another was sociological sexism.

I pray that you have not read some of the gnostic pseudo-gosples and take them to be true.

 

[planten]

No one ever said that women do not have souls. The Catholic Church has always exaulted women and their main calling: that of motherhood.

The right to vote has nothing to do with faith. It is a social matter. One of the reasons used to deny them the right was that they were poorly educated. Another was sociological sexism.

I pray that you have not read some of the gnostic pseudo-gosples and take them to be true.

Ralph, No, I do not read any bible. I used to read the KJV version which was a bound copy which is now too old and torn from beginning and end. So i do not have any bible now except that one.

But still I never (seldom) read anything beyond the first four gospels. I respect them and honor them and love them. That is more than enough for me.

About the soul of woman, I had read some where. It may not be in the bible. But the derogatory remarks about Eve are in the bible. that puts a blame on the women. Specially when you take the case of the original sin that is the prime belief of the church then teh whole burden of sin falls on the women.

But Quran never blamed Eve for misleading Adam. Thanks to Allah for another relief to the ladies fromt he point of view of Islam. Whereas the church blames the ladies for initiating the original sin, the Islam does say so.

The right to vote is an important right. Bible fails to give that right to women.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

…Why don’t Muslim scholars … Why do they always have to insist Muslim women are more privileged than Christian women? .

Well , Christians believe Jesus (p) said it’s adultery to marry a divorced lady. So , what’s the solution here for a Christian woman who has an abusive husband ? If she divorces him , no believer should marry her as that will be a sin.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Of Course , kids are the precious gifts from God Almigthy. They should come in to this world in a legal way _ through parents marriage.

But Islam does not say kids will be punished if they are born outside marriage . But in bible there is a verse like that 10th (!) generations of a bas____ will not be allowed to enter in to the prayer house ( not the exact words…the command is like that ).

If this is from OT & Christians are not to obey this law , does it mean Christians can have children outside marraige legally ? ( regarding religious law , not the men made laws).

 

[dolphinlove]

Defile her? When a husband goes to his wife the first time, do you say he defiles her? No.

Now, you say that 12 is past the age of puberty, and 6 is not. Muhammad contracted the marriage with Aisha when she was 6 (at the same ceremony for his other wife Sauda). But he did not consummate the marriage until she was 9, according to her own reports. Muslim scholars do not disagree at all about the fact that she was mature at the time he consummated the marriage.

So, I’m asking you… why is 12 old enough, and 9 not old enough?

And what about 10, or 11? At what time do you think a girl is actually old enough?

Consider, in your answer, that some girls do start puberty by age 8 or 9.

There is a BIG difference in the facts here. Mary was pregnant with Jesus through the act of a MIRACLE. NOONE had sex with her. Jesus was given to us BY God. You, i and anyone else has no right to question God’s miracles. God obviously knew Mary was capable and mature enough to give birth to Jesus. So, the pregnancy was a miracle from God, not by some man who claims he is a prophet.
Secondly, muhammad HAD sex with a 9 year old. A 9 year old that was playing with her dolls at the time. Do you think God would consider this act as a miracle? I dont think so. God would be sad to see a child of 9 having something done to her that she doesnt understand. My niece who is now 8 years old, i couldnt even imagine a man touching her. I tell you, he wouldnt be walking very well if anyone did touch her.
Your prophet desired little girls, and that is no miracle, its a sick and disgusting act.
Joseph was a respectable and fantastic guardian of our Lord Jesus, and he never had sex with Mary, as we all know she is a virgin.
Now will all you muslims please stop trying to lower Joseph to your prophets level of sickness.

 

[dzheremi]

The problem is that now there are more children out of wedlock than those by marriage.

Do ever bother to look up anything that you post? This is not true at all. The number is still far too high in the USA (37%), but what you have written is STILL not true. (source)

There is no concept of marriage in Europe. The christians do no tmarry until they produce a child. If they fail then they mve on to the next lady / gent and try their luck.

Another out-and-out lie not backed up by facts. This is just another pathetic attempt of yours to malign Christians. No Christian seeks to create a child out of wedlock. That is insane. The fact that so many kids are born in such circumstances is not a reflection of Christian doctrine, but an aberration of it.

Secular institutions in Europe (where you say there is apparently no concept of marriage) even recognize the detrimental effect of falling marriage rates, so obviously they do have a concept of marriage that they see as integral to the health of society. Please read this article on marriage rates in Britain and Wales, and pay special attention to the quote at the end: Marriage rates fall to the lowest ever in Britain and Wales

The church could not hold the people on the right path.

The Church cannot force people to marry or stop them from cohabitating prior to marriage. In Christianity, the individual has a responsibility to use their free will in a way that strengthens their walk on the narrow path. They cannot be forced to remain if they themselves decide to act against their professed faith. How exactly is that the Church’s “fault”?

There are very genuine good chaste people in christians but they are far and few.

More hate and lies from you against Christians. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[Zlatan]

Salaam/peace
Prophet (p) described what he saw , what’s so wrong with it ? If it’s an authentic hadith , then all women should be more careful about the hereafter & try hard not to be one of them there.

hahah so then you agree with mohammed’s statements that most of the inhabitants of hell are women and many women are hellbound because they are ungreatful to their husbands? Do you also agree that women are mentally deficient as the prophet said, so when they bear witness their word is only worth half of a man’s? Do you really calling that honouring women? Do you consider it honouring women for the koran to allow domestic violence?

004.034
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) **beat them (lightly); **but if they return to obedience

do you consider it honouring women for mohammed to have had sex with a 9 year old girl after long having dreamt about doing so? ( please spare the cultural relitvism , i have heard it all before)

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 235:
Narrated 'Aisha:
That the Prophet said to her, “You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). ‘This is your wife.’ When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done.”

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Narrated Hisham’s father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

DO you consider it honouring women for mohammed to havehad 9 wives whom he had massive orgies with at night?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:
Narrated Qatada:
Anas bin Malik said, “The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number.” I asked Anas, “Had the Prophet the strength for it?” Anas replied, “We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men).” And Sa’id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 5, Number 270:
Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Muntathir:
on the authority of his father that he had asked 'Aisha about the saying of Ibn 'Umar(i.e. he did not like to be a Muhrim while the smell of scent was still coming from his body). 'Aisha said, “I scented Allah’s Apostle and he went round (had sexual intercourse with) all his wives, and in the morning he was Muhrim (after taking a bath).”

Do you consider it honouring women for mohammed to approve of having sex with concubines and slaves?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 432:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
that while he was sitting with Allah’s Apostle he said, “O Allah’s Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us (pulling the penis out before ejaculation)?” The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.

hahah mohammed was a sex addict who did not honour women in any way.

 

[Angelos]

angelos, there is no need to get hurt when it comes to your people. But you enjoy saying bad things about others. I have read the story but I do not believe it, specially the angels passing messages. That is not possible.

What hurts me is only the deliberate idiocy of some filthy and dishonest people.

Why do you fail to cite reference EACH TIME you put forward your stupid claims? If you do not believe the story written in this Gospel, why do you believe that Mary was taken by Joseph when she was 12? Where did you get this idea from? Your Koran says nothing about Mary’s marriage with Joseph or about Mary’s age when she left the Temple. As far as I remember, your hadiths are silent on this issue too. You reject ALL the hadiths anyway. You also reject the Bible as a reliable source. I still wonder which “reliable” source suports your suppositions concerning Mary’s age?? Please cite them soon.

**
And the whole story has been well designed till the end part, sending Joseph away from Mary. In another gospel, it is clearly written that Joseph and Mary lived like a husband and wife. They used to close their doors on the public as a husband and wife for fourteen years.**

Since you do not believe any of these sources, please bring your evidence that says Joseph consummated his marriage with Mary when she was 12!

My friendly advice to you: Do not make a fool of yourself anymore and do not waste our precious time with your absurd and childish posts.

**
What would you say about that?. Were they not living as a husband and wife for fourteen (14) years?. If you get upset about the marriage of Mary at the age of 12 then why do you happily discuss the marriage of Aisha at some young age. That is not a part of Quran.**

Muslims and your pagan prophet confirmed the historical fact that Mohammad slept with Aisha when she was a child of 9! None of the Islamic sources state that Aisha married Mohammad at a young age because she had to as a part of a divine plan or that Mohammad never slept with Aisha.

I cannot decide how old you are! Your weak memory makes me conclude that you must be over 70 whereas your childish behaviour and silly comments make me conclude that you are a child of 12.

**
But your whole story is written in your own bible. The angel coming to zakariya and angel coming to Joseph the carpentar is all false. Cannot ( Can never) be true. You know the reason why.**

This has nothing to do with Mary’s supposed age at the time of her marriage. Why do you believe that a man named Joseph lived in history and married a girl named Mary? It is not written in your Koran. Why do you believe this then?

 

[Angelos]

Yet women have not been popes.

Women have not been priests.

Women are told they aren’t even supposed to talk in church! (According to some interpretations of one of Paul’s letters.)

Why do you forget that Christian theology bases the institution of priesthood on Jesus’ twelve apostles, all of whom were male. Does your Koran state that some of Jesus’ apostles were female? Please cite reference.

Although Islam has no form of priesthood, all of the Imams and hodjas are surprisingly male. Is this a simple coincidence?

Although Judaism and Christianity teach that there were prophetesses as well as prophets, the Koran overtly denies this. Paul never forbids women from prophesying either!

The oppression of women in Europe, the suppression of their rights was done by Christian governments. Women were not seen as equals spiritual or otherwise by the Christian church.

When did women achieve the right to vote? The right to own property? These rights aren’t protected for women by being Christian, that’s for sure. The right to a divorce is one right that the Catholic church still hasn’t granted women. (Or men, for that matter, though I tend to think it’s women who suffer more for it.)

You are confusing Islamic governments with the supposed Christian ones. Actually, there has never been a Christian government in the same sense as the Islamic ones using the Koran to regulate administration and life.

 

[Angelos]

As for planten’s absurdities concerning Eve in the Bible, the Koran does not narrate the story of Eve’s creation. Even the name EVE is missing from the Koran (she is always referred to as Adam’s wife).

According to the various accounts in the Koran, God creates only Adam and commands His angels to fall prostrate only before Adam:

Surah 2:34
And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

Surah 2:35
And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.

When Adam and his wife are beguiled by Satan, God banishes them out of Heaven after putting enmity between them! Later God forgives only Adam.

Surah 2:36
But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time.

Surah 2:37
Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.

In another chapter of the Koran, ALL WOMEN are stated to be deceitful creatures!

Surah 12:28
So when he saw his shirt torn from behind, he said: Lo! this is of the guile of you women. Lo! the guile of you is very great.

However, the Koran teaches that Satan’s strategy is weak:

Surah 4:76
Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil’s strategy is ever weak.

 

[morning_star777]

Sis Amy, I am thankful to you for informing me about these things which prove a defect in the church system or rathe rprove the superiority of the Islamic teachings… I was aware of all these but it needed some good presentation. Thank you very much. It is all true what you have written, 100 %.

These are the practical items (yardsticks) by which we could measure the quantity and quality of freedom and rights of the ladies in any religion. I request the Cathopologists to please understand the reality and drop any antipathy against Islamic teachings.

the superiority of the Islamic teachings?Ya I agree with you.Wife beating,taking 4 wives for one man,forced covering system etc etc,all are very good teaching and surely in these cases,islamic teaching is superior to all.

 

[planten]

As for planten’s absurdities concerning Eve in the Bible, the Koran does not narrate the story of Eve’s creation. Even the name EVE is missing from the Koran (she is always referred to as Adam’s wife).

According to the various accounts in the Koran, God creates only Adam and commands His angels to fall prostrate only before Adam:

Surah 2:34
And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

Surah 2:35
And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.

When Adam and his wife are beguiled by Satan, God banishes them out of Heaven after putting enmity between them! Later God forgives only Adam.

Surah 2:36
But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time.

Surah 2:37
Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.

In another chapter of the Koran, ALL WOMEN are stated to be deceitful creatures!

Surah 12:28
So when he saw his shirt torn from behind, he said: Lo! this is of the guile of you women. Lo! the guile of you is very great.

However, the Koran teaches that Satan’s strategy is weak:

Surah 4:76
Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil’s strategy is ever weak.

**angelos, thank you for teaching me the Quran. You said Quran did not describe the creation of Eve. Quran only described the creation of Adam. But you did not show any verse which described the creation of Adam.

I believe there is no verse which tell about the Creation of Adam because Adam was not the first man who was created. Can you show any verse of the Quran which may describe the creation of Adam**.

 

[Sam_777]

Muslim Woman;4323569:

Sam_777;4323481:

… I challenge any Muslim here to come up with just one post about Islam where I have lied in, :

Salaam/peace

In your one post u wrote : Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from Lord to least prophet. ------Satan decieved Muhammed (p) etc. If you read your Koran carefully, you will see that Mohammad actually hated Jesus and taught that Jesus would be the firewood of Hell:

Surah 21:98-99
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come. Had these been gods, they would not have come to it and all shall abide therein.

According to this verse, EVERYTHING that is worshipped beside Allah will burn in Hell. Surah 9:30 says that Christians worshipped Jesus beside Allah. The conclusion of these two premises is that Jesus will burn in Hell.

I hope you can see now the true face of Mohammad’s teachings

Well interpretation Angelos, I think beside my well referenced thread titled “Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from Lord to least prophet” you should create one titled “Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from least prophet to firewood of Hell”.:nope:

 

[planten]

the superiority of the Islamic teachings?Ya I agree with you.Wife beating,taking 4 wives for one man,forced covering system etc etc,all are very good teaching and surely in these cases,islamic teaching is superior to all.

morning _ Star, please do not comment on my post. Try to comment on the post of Sis Amy where she has pointed out some weakness of your system about lack of ladies welfare in church system.

 

[dolphinlove]

morning _ Star, please do not comment on my post. Try to comment on the post of Sis Amy where she has pointed out some weakness of your system about lack of ladies welfare in church system.

Who made you a moderator?
Morning star, and anyone for that matter can comment on anything they want and when they want.
Your just worried because we show you the weakness of your quran and hadiths, and you just wont admit how flawed they are.

 

[Sam_777]

Welcome back “inJESUS” , I hope that you are okay, actually I was waiting till Nov 7th (30 days from your last post on Oct 7th) to issue an alert for you here on CAF, since you have mentioned before that you live in Arabian Peninsula, however, during your absence our fellow “Isa Almisry” got banned .

“Give me yourself (in marriage) as a gift.”

this parathethis doesn’t exist in Arabic.

I know, that is wrong translation and false inspiration to cover Muhammed’s bad deeds, however, if I’m just showing authentic references without any comment and I’m accused of being “munafiq, a liar, a traitor, a hypocrite, spreading lies & hatred” as shown here, then what do you expect them to call me if I told them that it was a wrong translation!

since when are non-mahram men allowed to touch women? or is it ok only for Muhammad to touch a woman who is not his wife?

Why! was Muhammed restricted also to the 4 wives in Islam.

 

[Psalter]

**
The church could not hold the people on the right path. There are very genuine good chaste people in christians but they are far and few.**

I know a lot of Muslims and FEW if any of them are chaste…actually, from all appearances Muslim women are expected to be chaste and virginal while the men can sleep around (with non-Muslim women only of course since they are worthless). Islam has a double-standard for males and females; Christianity says it is a sin for either sex to be unchaste.

 

[Angelos]

**angelos, thank you for teaching me the Quran. You said Quran did not describe the creation of Eve. Quran only described the creation of Adam. But you did not show any verse which described the creation of Adam.

I believe there is no verse which tell about the Creation of Adam because Adam was not the first man who was created. Can you show any verse of the Quran which may describe the creation of Adam**.

Surah 2:30-31
And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee ? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not. And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.

Surah 7:11-12
And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration. He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee ? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.

Who was first created if not Adam? Please cite reference to support your thesis.

 

[Angelos]

Well interpretation Angelos, I think beside my well referenced thread titled “Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from Lord to least prophet” you should create one titled “Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from least prophet to firewood of Hell”.:nope:

Thanks. Actually, I am planning to create a new thread to analyse Jesus in the Gospel with Issa in the Koran comparatively. I shall help Christians see that Mohammad hated Jesus and downgraded Him to the level of an idol.