One confused Pagan!!

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Actually, I agree - it is always better to choose a specific system and work it whole-heartedly than to choose bits of this and that - especially for beginners, or uncertain students. A highly skilled piano player might make something beautiful out of a combination of classical, barrelhouse and jazz, but most folks would just make a mess.
Ian
Sailing is a far better analogy.

You want to go home (Heaven)–to remain where you are, as you are is to be destroyed by the coming storm (eternal death). To deny the storm’s existence is to be drowned–to have the wrong map is to be dashed against the rocks. To have a ship that is is not seaworthy (sin) is to also sink. Personal preference really dos’nt matter in survival.
 
We are all here for you.I reccomend you to go into a spiritual warfare website.I hope this helps you.

saint-mike.org/spcdc/swprayers/default.asp
Hi folks,

My story is long so I’ll try not too go into too much detail!

But I’ve been a practicing Pagan for 10 years which has helped me through a very dark part of my life and has given me strength in our community.

Even though our Pagan community is abundant with members and I have a very active role in organising I feel I’m just playing and have a lack of depth to my religeon.
I get great joy (and fear) in visiting churches to meditate and it seems meditation is a key that keeps me level headed. I also pray & contemplate too, here I find my peaceful bliss (Wishing to stay). And it’s because of this that I have an interest in the Catholic Church and I’m listening to an audio version of the Catechist.
I listen with interest & curiosity although I’m not really sure why!

I do have the problem of thinking too much and this causes me no end of difficulties, It sometimes feels like I’m searching for God? and do have this emptyness.
I have suffered from Anxiety & Depression for many years altough the depression is not too much of a problem now but fear is!

I guess that sometimes I fear life! or letting go of something, making choices etc. etc. just going round in circles and getting wound up in my head. And as you can imagine this go’s for all the aspects of my life too. Ahhhgg!

I’m looking for thoughts on this, yes I know more thoughts for me to think even more about! But I’m looking at the Catholic’s perpective on this I suppose and everything helps.

Thanks for reading and have a happy bright day!!!
 
Sailing is a far better analogy.

You want to go home (Heaven)–to remain where you are, as you are is to be destroyed by the coming storm (eternal death). To deny the storm’s existence is to be drowned–to have the wrong map is to be dashed against the rocks. To have a ship that is is not seaworthy (sin) is to also sink. Personal preference really dos’nt matter in survival.
Yes, it never takes long for the threat at the heart of Christianity to surface. “Do as your told or suffer the consequences” is the underlying message. Despite the pretty temples and occasional delights of the theology, this core threat cannot be escaped except by heresies of the Universalist sort. I’d ask our confused Pagan to remember that what the church offers is not limited to love and grace.

There can never be only one way to anything. There are always many paths to any goal. That’s not special revelation - that’s existence as it is.
Ian
 
I would like to give a big warm thanks for all the reply’s, there is so much to look at and think about here it will probably keep me going for a while!

With much love & blessings,

Graham.
 
Ian I do not agree with you.Jesus is the way,the truth and life.Jesus is the only way to Heaven and happyness.What you just said is the reason that people are so confused.Jesus never said there were many paths.He said that there is only one true path,Him.You can take the straight and narrow way or the easy way which leads to the lake of fire.
Yes, it never takes long for the threat at the heart of Christianity to surface. “Do as your told or suffer the consequences” is the underlying message. Despite the pretty temples and occasional delights of the theology, this core threat cannot be escaped except by heresies of the Universalist sort. I’d ask our confused Pagan to remember that what the church offers is not limited to love and grace.

There can never be only one way to anything. There are always many paths to any goal. That’s not special revelation - that’s existence as it is.
Ian
 
Yes, it never takes long for the threat at the heart of Christianity to surface. “Do as your told or suffer the consequences” is the underlying message. Despite the pretty temples and occasional delights of the theology, this core threat cannot be escaped except by heresies of the Universalist sort. I’d ask our confused Pagan to remember that what the church offers is not limited to love and grace.

There can never be only one way to anything. There are always many paths to any goal. That’s not special revelation - that’s existence as it is.
Ian
Your more than correct Ian. I’ve learned and relearned this lesson a lot of the last few months and made more than a few mistakes but I’ve finally learned from them.

Grimble I suggest checking before you make up your mind and really look into threads on here about how few Catholics make it into Heaven and how the majority will suffer for all eternity, before you making your choice.

That said if you feel this is your path do it man!
 
I accept the church for it’s beauty & love and also accept that it has been giving the underlining message of ‘Do what we say or be damned!’. (which tends to put people off a bit!)

I feel the time this was written was a very different time and with all the fear in the world we should take the positives and grow in a more accepting and loving culture.

The more I look at religeons the more they are the same but with differing aproaches. We all look for love and peace in our lives and ask for guidance from the greater divine of which I believe is the singular God (masculine & the feminine).

Sometimes people need a heavier hand and a more strict guidance to show them the way but generally people are more intelligent now and question this authority, nobody wants to be told what to do anymore they want to work it out themselves.

I believe Jesus is love and from that love you will not find something that controls but something that will open the heart to all.
I don’t want to live in fear knowing that what I’m doing is wrong, I’m a really good guy! and a depth to my spirituallity is always welcome and the Catholic Church does hold that depth and with much beauty.
With love in your heart I think you can never go wrong!

What I’m doing now is floating with it all, well trying to and hopefully I’ll be led the best way for me. I just hope things get a little clearer!!
Some people have mentioned about ‘Wicca’, I’m not a Wiccan and don’t really practice a ‘practical’ magick. I gather people to celebrate the seasons and give love to the spirits of our world and to the divine. The magick that comes from us is love.

I hope this above makes sence as it’s not easy to write through a head of pounding thoughts and there may be the odd spelling error!!

With much love & kindness,

Graham in sunny Devon.
Trying to find an ‘open’ quiet Church around here without the influx of tourists is like trying to look for a needle in a haystack!😃
 
I get great joy (and fear) in visiting churches to meditate
do you visit Catholic Churches to meditate? That is the only place to meditate because God is There (Christ, the Word of God Incarnate)…

Even a lot of Catholics do not spend much time There…😦 and yet i feel that is virtually the most important part of our faith…

i mean, if a husband said he loved his wife, that he thought about her all the time, read her love letters all the time, but never spent time with her…

What kind of relationship / marriage would that be???
 
Finding a place for silent meditation & prayer is almost impossible for some reason. We have over 15 churches in our small town and most of them are only open when used for Mass or services etc.
This morning I went to our Parish church, as it was open, and tried to meditate in a chapel area although I could constantly hear chatting from the cleaners.
Yesterday I tried another church but tourist kept coming in and taking photographys, chatting & looking at the displays.

One of the local Catholic churches is open from 8.30 till Mass then it’s closed which is difficult when I have to work most of the time.

There are Methodist churches open for prayer & help although the emphasis is more on coffee mornings which are full of people getting a free coffee & to chat with their friends.

It’s maddening!

Although I have other places to try especially my local Catholic one although there is no information about it being open apart from Masses etc. and I’m too fearful of just trying the door and then being ask, yes can I help you!

Silence is expensive in our world today!

Much love, Graham
 
Finding a place for silent meditation & prayer is almost impossible for some reason. We have over 15 churches in our small town and most of them are only open when used for Mass or services etc.
This morning I went to our Parish church, as it was open, and tried to meditate in a chapel area although I could constantly hear chatting from the cleaners.
Yesterday I tried another church but tourist kept coming in and taking photographys, chatting & looking at the displays.

One of the local Catholic churches is open from 8.30 till Mass then it’s closed which is difficult when I have to work most of the time.

There are Methodist churches open for prayer & help although the emphasis is more on coffee mornings which are full of people getting a free coffee & to chat with their friends.

It’s maddening!

Although I have other places to try especially my local Catholic one although there is no information about it being open apart from Masses etc. and I’m too fearful of just trying the door and then being ask, yes can I help you!

Silence is expensive in our world today!

Much love, Graham
Try looking up adoration chapels, or first friday (of the month) Adoration times. These are times specifically set apart for silent meditation in front of the blessed sacrament in a monstrance. Because we Catholics believe that Christ both physically and spiritually present there, it is a good time and place for meditation, or just to sit and listen…or at least try to listen to what Christ is telling you.

Usually when I pray in such a setting, I spend 95% of the time pouring out my concerns, my prayers for others, my anxieties, listening to people talk, cough, etc… then, I am silent enough just to listen. Moments of distraction do come, but if you make prayer a daily habit, you can learn to focus your thoughts more.

As for the one path, many path comments…I believe that Christ is the only path to salvation, but I also believe that Christ can and does lead you wherever you may be on your journey. He is the good Shepherd, and he will reach out to you and search for you no matter where you are.

Hell and damnation are things that only God can decide, and I’m inclined to think damnation will be a rare event reserved for those who truly deserve it. The rules and regulations we live are not meant to control us, but to lead us into ever greater depths of love.

God bless,
Ut
 
Sometimes people need a heavier hand and a more strict guidance to show them the way but generally people are more intelligent now and question this authority, nobody wants to be told what to do anymore they want to work it out themselves.
I believe Jesus is love and from that love you will not find something that controls but something that will open the heart to all.
:clapping: That was fantastic! You are exactly right.

I agree with the other poster about asking what times they have Eucharistic adoration at as that is the best guaranteed time for an open church geared to meditation. Another suggestion you might want to keep in mind for when you are ready someday is to stay at a monastery for one or two days in a quiet personal retreat. You can read, pray, and think in silence as much as you want. Im just mentioning it so you know that that kind of thing is available if you ever want it.

I actually googled your location + monastery and found this
buckfast.org.uk/page-home.html
 
Ian Corrigan posted : "Yes, it never takes long for the threat at the heart of Christianity to surface. “Do as your told or suffer the consequences” is the underlying messageThere can never be only one way to anything. There are always many paths to any goal. That’s not special revelation - that’s existence as it is."

and Cyberwolf001 concured; "Your more than correct Ian. I’ve learned and relearned this lesson a lot of the last few months and made more than a few mistakes but I’ve finally learned from them…

Essentialy, Ian is right, at the core, or heart, of Christianity is an either/or choice. As Peter Kreeft noted in his dialogue book Between Heaven and Hell, if you subtract the concepts of Sin and Salvation out of Christianity you have another religion–you no longer have Christianity. If you want to merge contradictory beliefs together, no one can stop you–but you are being inately dishonest (at worst) or unthinkingly irrational (at best).

The idea that “There can never be only one way to anything.” is a very popular one–because it seems to be the escape route out of intolerance and bigotry, the quasi-ecumenical sword that severs the Gordian knot of contradiction, disputes, and even persecution. But besides being one of these “absolute” statements that contradicts itself (on par with :“there are no moral absolutes–except this one”) it is a false-to-fact assertion, one that flys in the face of observable reality.

Don’t believe me?–ask a chemistry professor the correct way to dilute a strong acid with water. Do it in the wrong sequence and your face will be melted off your skull. And in human relations?–as the late artist Kelly Freas once noted, "The idea that there are no fixed rules or conventions is very popular with the “avant guard” and counter cultural types–but is an attitude quite likely to get you killed if applied in a serious money poker game"

No intent to offend, but these strong examples are to underscore one’s eternal fate is at stake–and while other “paths” might not be utterly damning, to greater or lesser degrees they are frought with dangers, leading a soul into behaviors or attitudes (Sin) that may become irrevocabily fixed by the moment of physical death–making it impossible for said soul to accept God’s forgiveness (Salvation), therby leading to Eternal Death.

By the way, in regards to the actual, authentic pagans and their attitudes towards sin:
“The earliest converts were converted by a single historical fact (the Resurrection) and a single theological doctrine (the Redemption) operating on a sense of sin which they already had—and sin, not against some new fancy-dress law produced as a novelty by a “great man”, but against the old, platitudinous, universal moral law which they had been taught by their nurses and mothers…” The Screwtape Letters: XXIII by CS Lewis
 
Grimble you need to choose between a false God and the practices that you do or the True God ,Jesus and His church.I have been that raod before and you are playing with fire and demonic realities.I hope that you go to confession and talk to your priest about all the pagan practices that you are doing.God Bless!
2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic. 2110 The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people. It proscribes superstition and irreligion. Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion; irreligion is the vice contrary by defect to the virtue of religion.
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of “idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.” These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
Divination and magic
2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
2133 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strength” (Deut 6:5).
2134 The first commandment summons man to believe in God, to hope in him, and to love him above all else.
2135 “You shall worship the Lord your God” (Mt 4:10). Adoring God, praying to him, offering him the worship that belongs to him, fulfilling the promises and vows made to him are acts of the virtue of religion which fall under obedience to the first commandment.
2136 The duty to offer God authentic worship concerns man both as an individual and as a social being.
2137 “Men of the present day want to profess their religion freely in private and in public” (DH 15).
2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.
2139 Tempting God in words or deeds, sacrilege, and simony are sins of irreligion forbidden by the first commandment.
2140 Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the first commandment.
2141 The veneration of sacred images is based on the mystery of the Incarnation of the Word of God. It is not contrary to the first commandment.
The more I look at religeons the more they are the same but with differing aproaches. We all look for love and peace in our lives and ask for guidance from the greater divine of which I believe is the singular God (masculine & the feminine).
Sometimes people need a heavier hand and a more strict guidance to show them the way but generally people are more intelligent now and question this authority, nobody wants to be told what to do anymore they want to work it out themselves.
I believe Jesus is love and from that love you will not find something that controls but something that will open the heart to all.
I don’t want to live in fear knowing that what I’m doing is wrong, I’m a really good guy! and a depth to my spirituallity is always welcome and the Catholic Church does hold that depth and with much beauty.
I gather people to celebrate the seasons and give love to the spirits of our world and to the divine. The magick that comes from us is love.
 
Hi folks,

My story is long so I’ll try not too go into too much detail!

But I’ve been a practicing Pagan for 10 years which has helped me through a very dark part of my life and has given me strength in our community.

Even though our Pagan community is abundant with members and I have a very active role in organising I feel I’m just playing and have a lack of depth to my religeon.
I get great joy (and fear) in visiting churches to meditate and it seems meditation is a key that keeps me level headed. I also pray & contemplate too, here I find my peaceful bliss (Wishing to stay). And it’s because of this that I have an interest in the Catholic Church and I’m listening to an audio version of the Catechist.
I listen with interest & curiosity although I’m not really sure why!

I do have the problem of thinking too much and this causes me no end of difficulties, It sometimes feels like I’m searching for God? and do have this emptyness.
I have suffered from Anxiety & Depression for many years altough the depression is not too much of a problem now but fear is!

I guess that sometimes I fear life! or letting go of something, making choices etc. etc. just going round in circles and getting wound up in my head. And as you can imagine this go’s for all the aspects of my life too. Ahhhgg!

I’m looking for thoughts on this, yes I know more thoughts for me to think even more about! But I’m looking at the Catholic’s perpective on this I suppose and everything helps.

Thanks for reading and have a happy bright day!!!
Hello Grimble, and welcome to the forum!!

So much good advice has already been given to you!

I would suggest one more thing. Get a copy of “The Everlasting Man” by Gilbert Keith (G.K.) Chesterton, who was a self proclaimed pagan in his early years. It will bring much of what you are thinking and questioning together into a sensible whole.

God bless you in your search!!
 
Actually, I agree - it is always better to choose a specific system and work it whole-heartedly than to choose bits of this and that - especially for beginners, or uncertain students. A highly skilled piano player might make something beautiful out of a combination of classical, barrelhouse and jazz, but most folks would just make a mess.
Ian
Coincidentally, I have been playing piano for 9 years. I’m not proffesional yet, but it could be that some day.

I just prefer not to be boxed in. Experiencing life through the many beautiful religions of the world is exciting for me, and helps me better love everyone. Digestion is not a problem for me. I thought the Catholic view was too little food for me, and didn’t fit my tastebuds either…just following the food metaphor here:D But that is jsut for me, and what is right for me is different than from what is right for you.
 
This is good site to me and our reliegion. Which I think that says a lot of positive things about your personality.Something lot of people whether they are pagan, atheist or even a non catholic Christian seem trying to do.But I’ve been a practicing Pagan for 10 years which has helped me through a very dark part of my life and has given me strength in our community. So I succed in life with this type of solutions.

==================================

knowle

trabajo vilafranca del penedes
 
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