One correct religion with the Truth (part 2)?

[JamesCarr]

How exactly did the Prophet Elijah come down from heaven in bodily form to herald the coming of the Messiah, as clearly prophesied in the Old Testament?



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If I am guessing right, I think I may know where this question is going to lead.

Elijah did not come down bodily at all.

Matthew 11:14
13"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14"And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come."

Hold it! Read these other passages too:

John 1:21
20And he confessed and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” 21They asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.”

First, John confessed that he is neither the Christ nor Elijah. To claim that Elijah is John the Baptist is to teach reincarnation. The premise is that a spirit in a former body comes back to be born in another body. At the very least, it is transmigration. The Bible has never taught this.

Luke 1:17

17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Second, the Bible is quite clear that John the Baptist is given this designation because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah”, not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. John the Baptist is the New Testament forerunner who points the way to the arrival of the Lord, just as Elijah filled that role in the Old Testament.

Third, Elijah himself appears with Moses at Jesus’ transfiguration after John the Baptist’s death. This would not have happened if Elijah had changed his identity.

 

[JamesCarr]

Christ saying He is the way and the life does not mean that He was the ONLY pre-existent, and eternal being ever to walk the earth…

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Exodus 20:2-3: “I am the Lord your God… You shall have no other gods before me.”

The above is enough. You may take a pick if it’s our Father Who said it, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity even.

There is NO way you can add in all other “gods” and tell me that God sent Baha’u’llah to contradict His Commandment.

 

[JamesCarr]

Jesus does the Will of the Father entirely, there’s very little left to say really. If Bahai cannot accept this fact and still teaches about some “salvation”, then it is all one big lie.

Thing is… all the answers are right before you and salvation can be so easy if you believe in Him entirely. But no, you wish to complicate things.

Which is easier? The promise of salvation that is before you or the searching for something else? Its either you accept Jesus in all its entirety or you can’t accept Him at all. There’s no fusion of religions for salvation, unlike the fusion of Eastern and Western cuisines! Baha’i = Solid food? Christianity = Milk? We are all lowly unworthy sinners! What solid food?! When are we ever ready for solid food when it comes to God Himself? Was the manna from heaven not enough solid? What did the people do in the end after being fed by God Himself for so many years?!

What else can one possibly need?

Take some time to think about what is it you really want, Servant19. I have spent 15 years searching for the right religion, right church, right denomination, right whateverrr!

15 years later…

I discovered I have wandered from the Starting line and wasted all my time searching in vain. When you will stop your search is the question only you can answer.

Peace,
JC

 

[Servant19]

Exodus 20:2-3: “I am the Lord your God… You shall have no other gods before me.”

The above is enough. You may take a pick if it’s our Father Who said it, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity even.

There is NO way you can add in all other “gods” and tell me that God sent Baha’u’llah to contradict His Commandment.

Thankyou James, can you please show me which Commandment of Jesus Baha’u’llah has contradicted please?

Thankyou



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[Servant19]

Jesus does the Will of the Father entirely, there’s very little left to say really. If Bahai cannot accept this fact and still teaches about some “salvation”, then it is all one big lie.

Thing is… all the answers are right before you and salvation can be so easy if you believe in Him entirely. But no, you wish to complicate things.

Which is easier? The promise of salvation that is before you or the searching for something else? Its either you accept Jesus in all its entirety or you can’t accept Him at all. There’s no fusion of religions for salvation, unlike the fusion of Eastern and Western cuisines!

What else can one possibly need?

Take some time to think about what is it you really want, Servant19. I have spent 15 years searching for the right religion, right church, right denomination, right whatever!

15 years later…

I discovered I have wandered from the Starting line and wasted all my life searching in vain.

Are you searching too?

Peace,
JC

Dear friend, searching means you have read the Bagavad Gita, the Upanishads, the Old and New Testaments, the Quran and the Writings of the Bab and Baha’u’llah …

…have you searched?

The only book from the above I have not read is the Quran and shame on me.

Baha’u’llah does not offer salvation, it is the Divine “Beauty” that speaks through Him that gives us salvation. It is no different with Jesus, what He hears from the Father, He speaks.

Don’t think for a second that now that you have found Jesus that salvation is assured. “He who does the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of heaven”

What do you think this means today?



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[Servant19]

If I am guessing right, I think I may know where this question is going to lead.

Elijah did not come down bodily at all.

Matthew 11:14
13"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14"And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come."

Hold it! Read these other passages too:

John 1:21
20And he confessed and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” 21They asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.”

First, John confessed that he is neither the Christ nor Elijah. To claim that Elijah is John the Baptist is to teach reincarnation. The premise is that a spirit in a former body comes back to be born in another body. At the very least, it is transmigration. The Bible has never taught this.

Luke 1:17

17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Second, the Bible is quite clear that John the Baptist is given this designation because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah”, not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. John the Baptist is the New Testament forerunner who points the way to the arrival of the Lord, just as Elijah filled that role in the Old Testament.

Third, Elijah himself appears with Moses at Jesus’ transfiguration after John the Baptist’s death. This would not have happened if Elijah had changed his identity.

Hang on one moment dear friend, are you saying that when the scholars and theological giants of Judaism were expecting a BODILY return of the Prophet Elijah, that they were wrong???

Is that what you are saying dear friend? That their interpretations of the Holy Texts which they knew backwards was incorrect?

I appreciate your thoughtful dialogue here

God bless you

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[JamesCarr]

How else do you think John the Baptist confessed that he is not Elijah?

In John 1:19- 23: “Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.” Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?” He said: “I am 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Make straight the way of the Lord,” 'as the prophet Isaiah said.” (Isa.40:3)

John who baptizes made it clear that he is not Elijah, He is not THE prophet. The most important point, he did claim to be the fulfillment of the Isaiah’s prophecy. If one cannot believe he is not Elijah, then indirectly one also does not believe in Jesus being the Messiah, since John must come first to prepare the way for Jesus.

Many answers have been spoon-fed to you, now it is high-time you finish your search without me, dear friend. No matter the answers given to you, you go about in circles chasing your own tail, believing only what you wish.

I cannot help recalling this passage:

Matthew 7:6

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

This passage means not to persist in offering what is sacred or of value to those who have no appreciation for it, because such gift will not only become contaminated and be despised, your generous efforts could also be rebuffed and perhaps even openly attacked.

Just like dogs will always turn back to its own vomit and pigs always turn back to wallowing in the mud. If one’s heart is hardened and does not open, even if the answers are given to you on a silver spoon, you simply won’t accept it as it is.

Peace
JC

 

[Servant19]

How else do you think John the Baptist confessed that he is not Elijah?

In John 1:19- 23: “Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.” Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?” He said: “I am 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Make straight the way of the Lord,” 'as the prophet Isaiah said.” (Isa.40:3)

John who baptizes made it clear that he is not Elijah, He is not THE prophet. The most important point, he did claim to be the fulfillment of the Isaiah’s prophecy.

Many answers have been spoon-fed to you, now it is high-time you finish your search without me, dear friend. No matter the answers given to you, you go about in circles chasing your own tail, believing only what you wish.

I cannot help recalling this passage:

Matthew 7:6

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

This passage means not to persist in offering what is sacred or of value to those who have no appreciation for it, because such gift will not only become contaminated and be despised, your generous efforts could also be rebuffed and perhaps even openly attacked.

Just like dogs will always turn back to its own vomit and pigs always turn back to wallowing in the mud. If one’s heart is hardened and does not open, even if the answers are given to you on a silver spoon, you simply won’t accept it as it is.

Thankyou dear friend, I cherish and grow and yearn for God to send me such words of denial and despising.

A dog I am

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[JamesCarr]

Thankyou dear friend, I cherish and grow and yearn for God to send me such words of denial and despising.

A dog I am

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Matthew 7:6

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

This passage means not to persist in offering what is sacred or of value to those who have no appreciation for it, because such gift will not only become contaminated and be despised, your generous efforts could also be rebuffed and perhaps even openly attacked.

.

Sighs… I have put up what it means, no one is calling the other a dog. Unless one’s heart is open, further dialogue is futile.

Thank you.

Peace,
JC

 

[Servant19]

Sighs… I have put up what it means, no one is calling the other a dog. Unless one’s heart is open, further dialogue is futile.

Thank you.

Peace,
JC

Can you please show me where my reasoning is incorrect?

I’m happy to listen to and acknowledge reason dear friend.

If you say “Baha’u’llah did not come down from heaven bodily therefore He is false”, it is unreasonable to, in the same breath say that Elijah did not return in bodily form from heaven but Jesus is still the Messiah, when it is clear that this what was expected.

Why is this an irrational reasoning to address?

Futile dialogue results from irrational responses. If my reasoning is irrational and without intellect then please advise me dear friend…

“Let us reason together”



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[JamesCarr]

Can you please show me where my reasoning is incorrect?

I’m happy to listen to and acknowledge reason dear friend.

If you say “Baha’u’llah did not come down from heaven bodily therefore He is false”, it is unreasonable to, in the same breath say that Elijah did not return in bodily form from heaven but Jesus is still the Messiah, when it is clear that this what was expected.

Why is this an irrational reasoning to address?

Futile dialogue results from irrational responses. If my reasoning is irrational and without intellect then please advise me dear friend…

“Let us reason together”



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To be dependent on human reason, and not on faith and good works is a dangerous path.

All I will offer you are these:

thetruthshall.com/BahaullahClaims.htm

jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Bahai/bahai-devil.htm

Even if one tries hard to agree with you, Baha’u’llah still did not fulfill all the prophecies that is spoken of in the regards of the Second Coming.

Read those links. Let them speak. If you still feel right, then its the path you choose. I would advise you to join RCIA but I also worry that those who are inquiring in RCIA with you will be misled. Thus, I have no advise for you but I leave it all to God’s hands and in His own time.

Amen.
JC

 

[Servant19]

To be depending on human reason, and not on faith and good works is a dangerous path.

All I will offer you is these:

thetruthshall.com/BahaullahClaims.htm

jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Bahai/bahai-devil.htm

Even if one tries to agree with you, Baha’u’llah did not fulfill all the prophecies that is spoken of in the regards of the Second Coming.

Read those links. Let them speak. I know my faith and I will not let it waver further.

Thanks.
JC

Dear friend, this is the source of your searching??

Please dear brother, I do not learn about Christ from a latest Jewish website…

Integrity, honesty, sincerity. These are the qualities of true search in the eyes of God. Please do not poison your soul with such websites.

I only read the first 3 paragraphs on each site and found error upon error upon error.

Are there any questions you have which I will explain using Catholic teachings?

The term heaven in Catholicism is not deemed a physical place. Did you know this dear James?

When Jesus ascended into the clouds, they were not “physical” clouds He ascended to. This is Catholic teaching, did you know this?

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[Servant19]

To be dependent on human reason, and not on faith and good works is a dangerous path.

All I will offer you are these:

thetruthshall.com/BahaullahClaims.htm

jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Bahai/bahai-devil.htm

Even if one tries hard to agree with you, Baha’u’llah still did not fulfill all the prophecies that is spoken of in the regards of the Second Coming.

Read those links. Let them speak. If you still feel right, then its the path you choose. I would advise you to join RCIA but I also worry that those who are inquiring in RCIA with you will be misled. Thus, I have no advise for you but I leave it all to God’s hands and in His own time.

Amen.
JC

From “Bahai…from the devil” (jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Bahai/bahai-devil.htm)

“They teach that God is so far beyond humans that no one can really know the essence of God.”

From the Catholic treasury:

The Nature of God

Our natural knowledge of God in this world is not an immediate, intuitive cognition, but a mediate, abstractive knowledge, because it is attained through the knowledge of creatures. (Sent. certa.)
Our knowledge of God here below is not proper (cognition propria) but analogical (cognition analoga or analogica). (Sent. certa.
The Blessed in Heaven possess an immediate intuitive knowledge of the Divine Essence. (De Fide)
The Immediate Vision of God transcends the natural power of cognition of the human soul, and is therefore supernatural. (De Fide)
The soul, for the Immediate Vision of God, requires the Light of Glory. (De Fide D 475.)
God’s Essence is also incomprehensible to the blessed in Heaven. (De Fide)

Even the blessed in heaven cannot comprehend and know the essence of God, a de fide teaching, no less !!

This website is laughable!!

God bless you, I pray for your spiritual liberation in Christ.



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[eddie_too]

a few commands of Jesus that Bahaullah did not obey?

1. go out and preach the gospel to all nations.
2. do this in memory of me.
3. unless you eat of My Body and drink of My Blood, you cannot have life within you.
4. follow the teachings of the apostles.

that would be four commands of Jesus that Bahaullah did not follow.

 

[JamesCarr]

Dear friend, this is the source of your searching??

Please dear brother, I do not learn about Christ from a latest Jewish website…

Integrity, honesty, sincerity. These are the qualities of true search in the eyes of God. Please do not poison your soul with such websites.

I only read the first 3 paragraphs on each site and found error upon error upon error.

Are there any questions you have which I will explain using Catholic teachings?

The term heaven in Catholicism is not deemed a physical place. Did you know this dear James?

When Jesus ascended into the clouds, they were not “physical” clouds He ascended to. This is Catholic teaching, did you know this?

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Before I answer further questions of yours, I return this question to you Servant19. Where & when did Baha’i decide that our Scriptures are only meant to be re-interpreted in the Baha’i way? When it is obvious that we do not interprete it your way. So where did all these new interpretation of the Bible derive from?

 

[Servant19]

Before I answer further questions of yours, I return this question to you Servant19. Where & when did Baha’i decide that our Scriptures are only meant to be re-interpreted in the Baha’i way? When it is obvious that we do not interprete it your way. So where did all these new interpretation of the Bible derive from?

Hello dear James

The Revelation of Baha’u’llah was recorded between the years of 1853-1892.

His book, the Kitab-i-Iqan (revealed in 8 days) is a source of understanding Christian and Islamic scriptures for Baha’is



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[JamesCarr]

Hello dear James

The Revelation of Baha’u’llah was recorded between the years of 1853-1892.

His book, the Kitab-i-Iqan (revealed in 8 days) is a source of understanding Christian and Islamic scriptures for Baha’is



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So it is safe to assume that according to Baha’i or Baha’u’llah, all Christians who have remained faithful to Jesus & the Church have not attained salvation but have been burning in hell since nearly 1900 years ago?

 

[JamesCarr]

Hello dear James

The Revelation of Baha’u’llah was recorded between the years of 1853-1892.

His book, the Kitab-i-Iqan (revealed in 8 days) is a source of understanding Christian and Islamic scriptures for Baha’is



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So it is safe to assume that according to Baha’i or Baha’u’llah, all Christians who have remained faithful to Jesus & the Church have not attained salvation but have been burning in hell since nearly 1900 years ago?

Or have Christians been burning in hell since 1892?

 

[Servant19]

So it is safe to assume that according to Baha’i or Baha’u’llah, all Christians who have remained faithful to Jesus & the Church have not attained salvation but have been burning in hell since nearly 1900 years ago?

This is a totally incorrect assumption. Why would you conclude this dear friend?



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[Servant19]

Or have Christians been burning in hell since 1892?

I am not in a position to judge the hearts and souls of anyone dear friend.

All I know is that Baha’u’llah’s Revelation has "unsealed the choice Wine with the fingers of might and power" and graced mankind with the guidance which puts us in right relationship with God for this Age. The “Will of the Father” in this Age, the Last Days, is found in the Revelation of Baha’u’llah

Through the power of the Holy Spirit, we pray that we may be guided to align our lives closer to His stupendous Revelation, the “likes of which mortal eyes have never witnessed”

There are so many factors that come into salvation. The knowledge of God’s Plan, the understanding of His Plan when one encounters it in the form of a new Revelation, the capacity to have strength and courage of conviction to “test” the Revelation in ones life for a suitable period…there are so many factors…and God is merciful, and His mercy exceeds His justice.

Only you know what’s in your heart dear friend, and those websites you gave are not a good place to be, and I am thankful to God that He has enabled me to be a hollow vessel to advise you to stay away from such websites

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