One correct religion with the Truth (part 2)?

[Servant19]

Another misconception. You do not understand the teachings of the Buddha which constitutes to the Pali canon. Ask ANY monk I put this challenge to you and you will be corrected immediately. Go to a 6 month retreat with a Buddhist group.

Do you know what defilements are as it is in Buddhism? Or are you giving me an explanation of Buddhism looking in from the outside? So the monks were all wrong since the very beginning when the Buddha taught? And Baha’i claims their own interpretation is right?

Before looking at what makes one defiled, it is essential that we understand what it means to be defiled AS the Buddha taught. It is easy to understand defilement as sinful outside Buddhism, so that when we read one is defiled we believe it means he is sinful or morally defective. This, however, is not necessarily the case. Certainly sin defiles. However, we all come in contact with the defilements in our lives through no fault of our own.

One of it is as what the Buddha taught: Non-Attachment.

When the Buddha said that he was undefiled and untouched by this world, he was simply saying he has broken the bonds of attachments and that all attachments have no more hold on him. Which means he has NO desire, NO cravings and NO attachments It does not mean he was born sinless.

My dear friend, I will advise you to also study Buddhism in-depth and the teachings of emptiness honestly & sincerely, if you so wish to argue about Baha’i perspective since the Buddha is also considered among your “manifestations of God” and “messenger of God”.

If as you said, one should fast & pray and explore to find out the truth, you will listen to my advise and attend RCIA and learn Buddhism to study more about your Baha’i faith. Won’t it be great if you could be more rounded in your knowledge of your Bahai’ faith?

My friend, the Buddha has " NO desire, NO cravings and NO attachments", and you call Him a normal day to day human being

Please dear friend, there is nothing normal about the Buddha’s lack of defilements.

Can you name one (just one) other person that had no desires, no cravings and no attachments?

The teachings of the Buddha, my dear friend, are in no way “reliably” understood today. We are talking about a Tradition that spans millennia, I take the span of time as an integral “dismantler” of original teaching… (ever played Chinese whispers?)



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[Servant19]

The only pattern here is multiple Gods. Good luck. I’m praying for you.

MJ

So you still fail to answer this question dear friend. Why is Jesus THE God, and not Lord Krsna?



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[JamesCarr]

My friend, the Buddha has " NO desire, NO cravings and NO attachments", and you call Him a normal day to day human being

Please dear friend, there is nothing normal about the Buddha’s lack of defilements.

Can you name one (just one) other person that had no desires, no cravings and no attachments?

One? I can name you 27 other Buddhas before Sakyamuni Buddha.

1 Taṇhaṅkara
2 Medhaṅkara
3 Saraṇaṅkara
4 Dīpankara, a rich Brahman
5 Koṇḍañña Kshatriya
6 Maṅgala
7 Sumana, King Atulo the Naga
8 Revata, A Veda-versed Brahman
9 Sobhita Kshatriya, a Brahman
10 Anomadassi Brahmin, a Yaksha king
11 Paduma, a lion
12 Nārada, a tapaso in Himalayas
13 Padumuttara, an ascetic
14 Sumedha, Native of Uttaro
15 Sujāta
16 Piyadassi, a Brahmin
17 Atthadassi, a Brahman
18 Dhammadassī
19 Siddharttha, a Brahman
20 Tissa, King Sujata of Yasawatinagara
21 Phussa
22 Vipassī, King Atula
23 Sikhī
24 Vessabhū
25 Kakusandha, King Khema
26 Koṇāgamana, King Pabbata of a mountainous area in Mithila
27 Kassapa

I could even name you those who attained enlightenment after Siddartha Gautama. Do you want a list?

Do you see how some Buddhas are non-human like: a lion, a demon King or a dragon?

 

[Servant19]

One? I can name you 27 other Buddhas before Sakyamuni Buddha.

1 Taṇhaṅkara
2 Medhaṅkara
3 Saraṇaṅkara
4 Dīpankara, a rich Brahman
5 Koṇḍañña Kshatriya
6 Maṅgala
7 Sumana, King Atulo the Naga
8 Revata, A Veda-versed Brahman
9 Sobhita Kshatriya, a Brahman
10 Anomadassi Brahmin, a Yaksha king
11 Paduma, a lion
12 Nārada, a tapaso in Himalayas
13 Padumuttara, an ascetic
14 Sumedha, Native of Uttaro
15 Sujāta
16 Piyadassi, a Brahmin
17 Atthadassi, a Brahman
18 Dhammadassī
19 Siddharttha, a Brahman
20 Tissa, King Sujata of Yasawatinagara
21 Phussa
22 Vipassī, King Atula
23 Sikhī
24 Vessabhū
25 Kakusandha, King Khema
26 Koṇāgamana, King Pabbata of a mountainous area in Mithila
27 Kassapa

I could even name you those who attained enlightenment after Siddartha Gautama. Do you want a list?

Do you see how some Buddhas are non-human like: a lion, a demon King or a dragon?

I asked for one “person” dear friend…

These are not people dear friend…some lived for “thousands of years”

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[JamesCarr]

I asked for one “person” dear friend…

These are not people dear friend…some lived for “thousands of years”

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Nonsense my friend! Brahmins are humans, are they not? Some of them not stated are not Brahmins because they do not belong to the priestly caste. Tell me, do all of them in the list lived for thousands of years? Do lions live thousands of years? Why are you still this obstinate? What else do you want me to prove?

 

[Servant19]

Nonsense my friend! Brahmins are humans, are they not? Some of them not stated are not Brahmins because they do not belong to the priestly caste. Tell me, do all of them in the list lived for thousands of years? Do lions live thousands of years? Why are you still this obstinate? What else do you want me to prove?

Ok dear friend, I guess Baha’u’llah is a false Manifestation of God because a lion proved that it can be without craving, and without attachment and was equal to the Buddha. A lion and the Buddha were both equal…(Paduma the lion lived for 100,000 years btw )
(are we really talking about this??)

I guess I really don’t understand Buddhism at all.

Anyway, lucky I am a Baha’i…do you have any questions about Baha’u’llah and His claim to being Jesus returned in the same manner that John the Baptist was Elijah returned?



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[MartinJordan]

So you still fail to answer this question dear friend. Why is Jesus THE God, and not Lord Krsna?



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I can see you really need alot of prayers. On this feast of St. Domnic I prayed for you during Holy Mass and asked his intercession.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

One? I can name you 27 other Buddhas before Sakyamuni Buddha.

1 Taṇhaṅkara
2 Medhaṅkara
3 Saraṇaṅkara
4 Dīpankara, a rich Brahman
5 Koṇḍañña Kshatriya
6 Maṅgala
7 Sumana, King Atulo the Naga
8 Revata, A Veda-versed Brahman
9 Sobhita Kshatriya, a Brahman
10 Anomadassi Brahmin, a Yaksha king
11 Paduma, a lion
12 Nārada, a tapaso in Himalayas
13 Padumuttara, an ascetic
14 Sumedha, Native of Uttaro
15 Sujāta
16 Piyadassi, a Brahmin
17 Atthadassi, a Brahman
18 Dhammadassī
19 Siddharttha, a Brahman
20 Tissa, King Sujata of Yasawatinagara
21 Phussa
22 Vipassī, King Atula
23 Sikhī
24 Vessabhū
25 Kakusandha, King Khema
26 Koṇāgamana, King Pabbata of a mountainous area in Mithila
27 Kassapa

I could even name you those who attained enlightenment after Siddartha Gautama. Do you want a list?

Do you see how some Buddhas are non-human like: a lion, a demon King or a dragon?

OK I did a fair bit of looking into this and I cannot see one person on this list that did not live for THOUSANDS (yes thousands) of years, except for the Buddha (Sidharta Gautama), thereby rendering all of them “non-human” except for the true Buddha.

Anyway, I am not here to argue with you dear friend about Buddhism.

I’m not here to argue at all about anything

I simply would like to learn why Catholics think the way they do when evidence and Scriptural Texts points otherwise

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[Servant19]

I can see you really need alot of prayers. On this feast of St. Domnic I prayed for you during Holy Mass and asked his intercession.

Peace be with you.

MJ

Thankyou dear brother

Prayers without action renders God’s answer meaningless…
Prayers will do me no good unless you guide me towards the light

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[MartinJordan]

Thankyou dear brother

Prayers without action renders God’s answer meaningless…
Prayers will do me no good unless you guide me towards the light

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I went for Mass and remembered you. It is an action of Faith. Praying is also a type of work. Going to a Holy Place of worship is also an act of Faith. I could go on how beautiful it was be in the presence of Christ our Lord.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

I went for Mass and remembered you. It is an action of Faith. Praying is also a type of work. Going to a Holy Place of worship is also an act of Faith. I could go on how beautiful it was be in the presence of Christ our Lord.

MJ

I feel it in you dear brother. It’s wonderful to see and to read about your passion in Christ

God bless you!

(and thankyou, you too are in my prayers always )

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[MartinJordan]

I feel it in you dear brother. It’s wonderful to see and to read about your passion in Christ

God bless you!

(and thankyou, you too are in my prayers always )

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Appreciated. I can assure you it is even much more than passion for Christ. I took him to my “home” by receiving his Body and Blood.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Appreciated. I can assure you it is even much more than passion for Christ. I took him to my “home” by receiving his Body and Blood.

MJ

I feel that in you too dear friend, and I am soooo happy that you have this in your life. I would NEVER want to take that away from you. EVER! (period)

I assure you, I have the same thing in my life too. I just want you to know that I would never forsake a chance to be so intimate with the Lord

(a bit teary right now …I felt a strong connection with you here brother)

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[JamesCarr]

Anyway, I am not here to argue with you dear friend about Buddhism.

I’m not here to argue at all about anything

I simply would like to learn why Catholics think the way they do when evidence and Scriptural Texts points otherwise

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My dear friend, I am not here to argue about Buddhism either, it is not my sole motive. You wanted to know more about Christianity but you are unable to digest it because you are looking at Scriptures in a Baha’i way. To keep going round in circles in Scriptural text will be futile unless I prove to you through the religions it has accepted as the truth, that the Baha’i teachings are entirely fallible. Unless the foundations of your faith is shaken, you will not be able to digest Biblical texts accurately.

You have been given full reign to show us over 5000 posts how Baha’i is the fullness of Christ and all the “manifestations of god”. It is only polite and charitable to accept what I have to show you dear friend, by God’s help, that Baha’i is not what you think it is.

If I can unveil the errors and fallibility of the teachings in Baha’i, your heart and eyes will open up to Christianity for what it really is! As much as Baha’i efforts to unite all the religions being admirable so that there can be world peace, but is the union of religions being the “truth” what God intended?. With all its claims of manifestations of God and messengers of God, will it make me more than a man if I shake its foundations and open your eyes? Or will it prove that Baha’i has too many errors and too fallible, that even a common man as myself can unveil before you?

By having already proved to you that Buddhism which teaches enlightenment through one’s own efforts, for teaching Cause and Effect… that the Buddha is only a man who does not recognize a Creator God and that attaining enlightenment is nothing divine at all, I have already showed you how Buddhism and Baha’i teachings has no place for each other. A belief in a Creator God and a belief in Cause and Effect & Impermanence is like Oil and Water. It can never mingle into One. Do you see it now, my friend?

If you permit me, I will even go ahead to prove to you another “messenger of God” / “manifestation of God” of the Baha’i faith is also ONLY a man. To impose myself upon you without your acknowledgement will be lacking in charity, thus I will only do so if you agree to it.

 

[JamesCarr]

Ok dear friend, I guess Baha’u’llah is a false Manifestation of God because a lion proved that it can be without craving, and without attachment and was equal to the Buddha. A lion and the Buddha were both equal…

How careless am I, dear friend! I did not mean to miss this. I hope you really did drop the Baha’i view for awhile at least, so you can finally absorb the Scriptures as it is! Praise God!

Amen!

 

[Servant19]

How careless am I, dear friend! I did not mean to miss this. I hope you really did drop the Baha’i view for awhile at least, so you can finally absorb the Scriptures as it is! Praise God!

Amen!

Dear friend, I was stunned by your claim. This post of mine was a reflection of my shock.

Does Buddhism today genuinely believe a lion lived on this earth for 100,000 years and attained the station of Sidharta Gautama?

This really is a sign that Baha’u’llah is truly needed

The superstitions, the vain imaginings and the idle fancies are too much to behold.

And you believe this to be truth??

Might I also add that these Buddhas outlined in the Buddhavamsa likely represent the innumerable other Manifestations of God which have drawn populations, tribes and cultures towards the One True God. (Which the Bahai Faith also acknowledges and revers as integral components to Gods Divin Plan)

Whilst the life stories of these Buddhas seem to have spiritual and symbolic significance I am comfortable to consider them as representing historical Manifestations.

I say this because Baha’u’llah is the Maitreya Buddha, which makes Him a Buddha also

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[Servant19]

My dear friend, I am not here to argue about Buddhism either, it is not my sole motive. You wanted to know more about Christianity but you are unable to digest it because you are looking at Scriptures in a Baha’i way. To keep going round in circles in Scriptural text will be futile unless I prove to you through the religions it has accepted as the truth, that the Baha’i teachings are entirely fallible. Unless the foundations of your faith is shaken, you will not be able to digest Biblical texts accurately.

You have been given full reign to show us over 5000 posts how Baha’i is the fullness of Christ and all the “manifestations of god”. It is only polite and charitable to accept what I have to show you dear friend, by God’s help, that Baha’i is not what you think it is.

If I can unveil the errors and fallibility of the teachings in Baha’i, your heart and eyes will open up to Christianity for what it really is! As much as Baha’i efforts to unite all the religions being admirable so that there can be world peace, but is the union of religions being the “truth” what God intended?. With all its claims of manifestations of God and messengers of God, will it make me more than a man if I shake its foundations and open your eyes? Or will it prove that Baha’i has too many errors and too fallible, that even a common man as myself can unveil before you?

By having already proved to you that Buddhism which teaches enlightenment through one’s own efforts, for teaching Cause and Effect… that the Buddha is only a man who does not recognize a Creator God and that attaining enlightenment is nothing divine at all, I have already showed you how Buddhism and Baha’i teachings has no place for each other. A belief in a Creator God and a belief in Cause and Effect & Impermanence is like Oil and Water. It can never mingle into One. Do you see it now, my friend?

If you permit me, I will even go ahead to prove to you another “messenger of God” / “manifestation of God” of the Baha’i faith is also ONLY a man. To impose myself upon you without your acknowledgement will be lacking in charity, thus I will only do so if you agree to it.

I would invite you to go ahead dear friend. Please show me the direction that I should take and how the Bahai Faith has erred and driven me towards falsehood

So far I have seen no evidence whatsoever that the Buddha was any less of a human being than Jesus. They were both sinless, and obviously all the preceding Buddhas were too, although I question the physical and material historicity of their earthly lives.

But please share your insights and learnings

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[JamesCarr]

Does Buddhism today genuinely believe a lion lived on this earth for 100,000 years and attained the station of Sidharta Gautama?

This really is a sign that Baha’u’llah is truly needed

The superstitions, the vain imaginings and the idle fancies are too much to behold.

And you believe this to be truth??

Might I also add that these Buddhas outlined in the Buddhavamsa likely represent the innumerable other Manifestations of God which have drawn populations, tribes and cultures towards the One True God. (Which the Bahai Faith also acknowledges and revers as integral components to Gods Divin Plan)

Whilst the life stories of these Buddhas seem to have spiritual and symbolic significance I am comfortable to consider them as representing historical Manifestations.

I say this because Baha’u’llah is the Maitreya Buddha, which makes Him a Buddha also

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Would I be a Catholic if I believed it to be true?

But it is what the Buddha taught. The very same person you kept insisting to be a manifestation of God! Now are you contradicting yourself, my friend? If you say he is only a man and his teachings are in error, then you are admitting Baha’i accepting his teaching to be the Truth is entirely fallible! Yet if you say he is more than a man, then you have just INSULTED yourself and disbelieved Baha’i because you yourself do NOT believe in what the Buddha taught anymore!

Does Buddhism today genuinely believe a lion lived on this earth for 100,000 years and attained the station of Sidharta Gautama?

Yes and its the same exact teaching the Buddha expounded in one of the sutras of the Pali Canon, when his disciples inquired whether there are other Buddhas. What’s your excuse now?

The superstitions, the vain imaginings and the idle fancies are too much to behold.

You said it yourself. Yet you say its one of the “Truths” from Baha’i.

This really is a sign that Baha’u’llah is truly needed

shakes head One moment you claimed Baha’u’llah’s teachings have no error and now you tell me thats why Baha’u’llah is needed because of all these errors… you are sounding like a brain-washed zombie to me now. First you wanted reliable sources, to which I pulled out the sutras from the Pali Canon (the first, oldest and most accurate records of Buddhism)…and yet you tell me these are not proofs?

Seriously?? …then tell me what is proof? Must the Buddha turn and rise from dead and tell you himself before it is considered proof? What is it will you accept? Are you deliberately trying to troll me and waste my time here with you?

So far I have seen no evidence whatsoever that the Buddha was any less of a human being than Jesus. They were both sinless, and obviously all the preceding Buddhas were too, although I question the physical and material historicity of their earthly lives.

Why do you keep returning to your own vomit again and again, before turning around to smell your own excrement, Servant19?

I say this because Baha’u’llah is the Maitreya Buddha, which makes Him a Buddha also.

You are killing me here right now. First you say its the Truth and the Buddha is a manifestation of god, then you say the Buddha’s teachings are in error and now you say Baha’ullah is Maitreya Buddha?

Stop being so desperate, my friend. shakes head

What happened to your “Let Us Reason”?

 

[Servant19]

Would I be a Catholic if I believed it to be true?

But it is what the Buddha taught. The very same person you kept insisting to be a manifestation of God! Now are you contradicting yourself, my friend? If you say he is only a man and his teachings are in error, then you are admitting Baha’i accepting his teaching to be the Truth is entirely fallible! Yet if you say he is more than a man, then you have just INSULTED yourself and disbelieved Baha’i because you yourself do NOT believe in what the Buddha taught anymore!

Yes and its the same exact teaching the Buddha expounded in one of the sutras of the Pali Canon, when his disciples inquired whether there are other Buddhas. What’s your excuse now?

You said it yourself. Yet you say its one of the “Truths” from Baha’i.

shakes head One moment you claimed Baha’u’llah’s teachings have no error and now you tell me thats why Baha’u’llah is needed because of all these errors… you are sounding like a brain-washed zombie to me now. First you wanted reliable sources, to which I pulled out the sutras from the Pali Canon (the first, oldest and most accurate records of Buddhism)…and yet you tell me these are not proofs?

Seriously?? …then tell me what is proof? Must the Buddha turn and rise from dead and tell you himself before it is considered proof? What is it will you accept? Are you deliberately trying to troll me and waste my time here with you?

Why do you keep returning to your own vomit again and again, before turning around to smell your own excrement, Servant19?

You are killing me here right now. First you say its the Truth and the Buddha is a manifestation of god, then you say the Buddha’s teachings are in error and now you say Baha’ullah is Maitreya Buddha?

Stop being so desperate, my friend. shakes head

What happened to your “Let Us Reason”?

Hello James. Might I ask you one question to which you might answer please?

Do you “literally” believe that someone by the name of Jonah was swallowed by a great big fish only to be spat out alive and well some time later?

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[JamesCarr]

Hello James. Might I ask you one question to which you might answer please?

Do you “literally” believe that someone by the name of Jonah was swallowed by a great big fish only to be spat out alive and well some time later?

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While the story of Jonah may be an amazing tale of a disobedient prophet being swallowed by a great big fish to many. But yet it may not be a tale after all since we cannot doubt that God in His infinite mercy and power, can preserve a man’s life as He wish, unless one is to doubt Him.

Most importantly, the Lord Jesus Christ accepted the account as true. He said that the people of Nineveh repented of their sins as a consequence of his preaching (Matthew 12:41). He even said:

“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth” (Matthew 12:40).

Thus Christ actually compared Jonah’s experience to His own coming death and resurrection, pointing out the miraculous nature of both. One cannot deny the factuality of Jonah’s experience, therefore, without charging the Lord Jesus Christ with either deception or ignorance, either of which is equivalent to denying His deity.​

Even if it is a tale, it is entirely unrelated to the teachings of the Buddha of that subject we spoke about BECAUSE Dipankara Buddha appeared to Sakyamuni Buddha, and some of his disciples and followers, which in turned demonstrated that the Buddha was not expounding a tale/literature, if one so choose to believe in Buddhism.

At that time, there was a monk by the name of Ananda (the closest companion of the Buddha) who was famous for his prodigious memory. Ananda recited all of the Buddha’s sermons from memory, a feat that surely took several days. Ananda began all of his recitations with the words “Thus I have heard,” and so all Buddhist sutras begin with those words. The Council agreed that Ananda’s recitation was accurate, and the collection of sutras Ananda recited was adopted by the Council.

Anything else that is literature do not fall in the Buddhavacana category among all the volumes of the Pali Canon. Thus your attempt to suggest the Buddha teaching of “Buddhas” is a tale or literature like Jonah being swallowed by the whale…is again, not valid.

Anyways, I have no wish to further waste my time on this thread which is proving fruitless, since you cannot accept anything, even if I am to Fedex the entire Pali Canon to you which Baha’i taught as one of the truths but yet contradicts their own teachings.

Most frustrating is Baha’is ability to ignore any proof you provide and continue a line of thinking even when clear evidence is given that it can’t be true, even to the point of starting a conversation over and completely ignoring what even they have said themselves.

This conversation is as stagnant as we were many posts back. Having said all that, I am outta here for good. And you cannot say that you have not been offered charity and patience because I have bore with you long enough, my friend. You wanted reliable sources to which I took the time to dig out for you at the expense of my own time but you simply don’t get it.

Enjoy the sandcastle buddy