One correct religion with the Truth (part 2)?

[Servant19]

Here are some of the words to a popular Catholic song:

Yahweh, I know you are near.
Standing always at my side.
You guard me from the foe,
and you lead me in ways everlasting.

Within the past 10 years or so our Church has asked us, out of respect for our Jewish brothers and sisters, to replace the name “Yahweh” with “Lord”. It doesn’t really matter to us. We know to whom we pray. There is only one God. As I said before, we pray to YHWH any time we pray to God.

Dear friend, let me make it as simple as I can.

The very concept of a triune God, from the perspective of Jewish Tradition is anathema.

From the Baha’i perspective, the concept becomes more clarified. The Baha’i Faith has no problems with us praying to the Manifestation of God because they are closer to God in station than they are to us.

Its like with this tree:

shutterstock.com/video/clip-2678978-stock-footage-tuscany-italy-circa-a-lonely-tree-stands-on-a-very-distant-hill-amongst-green-fields-in.html?src=rel/2678960:0/gg

…so far away, we can just make out what it may look like, gain some knowledge. That is God, that tree…“over there”…yet when we move closer to it, we actually see that it is two trees one in front of the other, the other is the Manifestation of God.

Looking at it from over here, the human plane, we see no discernible difference, but they are two, not one.

We can delve more deeply into this, but that is basically the analogy to enable one to understand what we are dealing with, “supremely lofty stations”. We, human beings are closer to a mineral of salt or sand, than we are to the Manifestation of God, infinitely closer, in fact…

One big difference. We have never denied the God of the Jews.

Dear friend, please show honesty. When have we denied Jesus?

The Baha’i and Islam on the other hand have distorted who the Person of Christ really is to the point that they are not invoking the same Person. In other words, Baha’i and Islam deny the Christian Christ, rejecting his divinity and his bodily resurrection. We have never denied the Jewish “YHWH”.

My friend, as I have said before, to you several times. The Baha’i Faith sees the relationship of Jesus to God as being exactly equivalent to St. Basil of Caesarea’s description of this relationship, where he uses the words Archetype and Prototype. It is not seen as a distortion anymore that a Triune God is seen as a distortion to Judaism.

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[IgnatianPhilo]

How can you clarify a doctrine which was already clarified? What your doing is redefining a word away from its classical usage. You do not believe in trinity, you believe in something else. If you insist on calling whatever you believe in trinity then you will be deliberately misleading people who will think you mean something else.

Also stop using saint Basil. Are you prepared to actually read him and the other cappadocian fathers to their fullest? Have you read anything about him or by him other than the brief paragraph which you quote?

“If however they think that the son crouches downbeore the father, as if in some low lying place, so that the father sits above him and the son is pushed back down into line - if they think this let them confess as much and we will be silent, since this is self evidently absurd. For those who do not grant that the father pervades all things do not take the argument to its logical consequence. Those of sound mind believe that God fills all things. Those who assign being above and being below to the father and the son are not mindful of the prophet… Let them learn that Christ is the “power of God and the wisdom of God” that he is the “invisible image of God” and “the radiance of Glory” and that “God the father has sealed him” and imprinted his whole self in him. So, then, are we to call these texts- and there are so many similar witnesses in the scripture - a humiliation or public proclamation of the majesty of the only begotten and his equality with the father in glory?.. They do not take into any consideration these texts and they relegate to the son a place set aside to his enemies.”

On the Holy spirit, 6, 15

I’m going to recommend (once again) that you actually read Basil, specifically On the holy spirit and against Eunomius. There is an excellent introduction by the Catholic University of america press series for Basil and his contribution to trinitarian theology, explaining both the context he was in and what he wrote. Basil wrote against and spoke against those Eunomians or Pneumatomachian, the first denied the son as being equal with God the father and the second denied the divinity of the Holy spirit. You have been corrected about this before and you have obviously learned nothing.

 

[SteveVH]

Originally Posted by Servant
Might I ask you Steve, which questions of yours you wish me to answer specifically? My intention is not to ignore any questions that you deem important.

Originally Posted by SteveVH
But before we get off on another tangent please respond to my previous posts. You asked questions and I answered them. What is your response to those answers? In particular see Post Nos. 176, 177 & 178

 

[SteveVH]

Dear friend, please show honesty. When have we denied Jesus?

When you deny His bodily resurrection.

When you deny that He is the only begotten Son of God.

When you deny that He, alone, is sufficient.

When you equate Him with mere human prophets who foretold his coming and hold him as just one “Manifestation of God” among many.

When you turn your eyes away from Him and gaze upon another and ask others to do the same.

Shall I continue?

 

[eddie_too]

by any reasonable definition, there is only One True Religion.

why would I state this?

because there is only one religion that puts itself out there without any qualifications so that anyone can know what this only True Religion teaches and professes.

it is understandable that people, mostly as a result of ignorance, follow other kinds of belief systems. the problem with ALL of the other belief systems is that there is no way for a human being to know exactly what these alternative systems teach and profess. in all systems except the Roman Catholic religion, what is taught and believed is always open to debate by members who profess the system.

in the RC religion, anyone and everyone can know exactly what is taught and professed. this not the case in any other system. in every other system, no one has the final word. that means that in every other system besides the RC religion there are no articles of faith. in all systems except the RC religion, there is no one with final authority. there is no one to whom a person can turn to get exactly what the system teaches and professes.

that is why the only religion with the fullness of the Truth is the Roman Catholic Church.

in the end, there is no way for anyone to know exactly what any other religion besides the RCC teaches.

 

[arthra]

Eddie wrote:

“…in the RC religion, anyone and everyone can know exactly what is taught and professed. this not the case in any other system. in every other system, no one has the final word. that means that in every other system besides the RC religion there are no articles of faith. in all systems except the RC religion, there is no one with final authority. there is no one to whom a person can turn to get exactly what the system teaches and professes.”

Actually a little research will provide I think some findings that may be less known by some about the Baha’i Faith…

So in the Baha’i Faith there is order and authority…

For Baha’is this means

the Writings of Baha’u’llah have the highest authority…

The interpretations of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi elucidate the above…

The institution of the elected House of Justice can resolve issues that are not specifically covered in the Writings…

The elected institutions of the Universal House of Justice, the National Assemblies and under them the Local Spiritual Assemblies constitute order and authority in our Faith.

So for us there is a way to answer any issue that comes before the believers and our Faith is united and provides consistent guidance.

 

[Servant19]

When you deny His bodily resurrection.

When you deny that He is the only begotten Son of God.

When you deny that He, alone, is sufficient.

When you equate Him with mere human prophets who foretold his coming and hold him as just one “Manifestation of God” among many.

When you turn your eyes away from Him and gaze upon another and ask others to do the same.

Shall I continue?

Thanks Steve, I don’t deny Jesus, just like I don’t deny one of my children over the other. They each have unique attributes, talents and qualities, and I love each of them for who they are, God’s children

In like manner, I value what each Prophet has wrought. To assert acclaim for Jesus and Jesus only denies the historical claims of Krishna, who was equally Divine, according to Hindu Scripture…

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[Servant19]

Mercy.

Since I am not “all Catholics” I cannot answer for all Catholics. My answer would be the above. By justice we are all condemned; not one of us is worthy. Because of God’s great love for us his Mercy is stronger than his Justice. We are to pattern our life after the example given to us by Christ. We are to love and be merciful. We are to forgive those who have harmed us. We are to give water to the thirsty, food to the hungry, clothes to the naked… We are to lay down our very lives for the sake of Love. Christian love is sacrificial love.

And how about the Baha’i. Do all Baha’i know what they need to do when it comes to love and justice and how they need to act?

Peace.

Steve

Hi Steve, Baha’is have a pretty good grasp of the foundations of their Faith. The educational process for all new Baha’is is strong, principally because the Baha’i institutions are very supportive and develop protocols aimed at accompanying all towards ever-advancing spiritual conditions.

As a result, all Baha’is understand the dynamics behind social unrest, individual acts of violence, and institutional corruption, and general societal decadence.

Baha’is observe the reality that exists around them, and assess whether the reality that they are observing falls within a disintegrative force of society, or an integrative force of society.

As a result, love is founded on contributing towards anything integrative and providing means by which the disintegrative forces may be eliminated sustainably, once and for all.

By justice, I did not mean the handing down of justice, which is God’s and only God’s domain, but the condition of “fair-mindedness” in all our acts and all our interactions with all.

“Let your heart burn with loving kindness for all who may cross your path”

Last week, a group of 25 Baha’is organised to visit the oldest Hindu temple in Perth. There we learnt about the Hindu religion, my children played with Hindu children, while we expressed loving delight at the reverence in which their parents worshipped the one God of Hinduism in that Temple.

I pray that we can all engage in such acts of love and fellowship.

Next month we visit the Sikhs, and the month after that the Catholics, then off we go to the Mosque

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[Servant19]

Originally Posted by Servant
Might I ask you Steve, which questions of yours you wish me to answer specifically? My intention is not to ignore any questions that you deem important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveVH
But before we get off on another tangent please respond to my previous posts. You asked questions and I answered them. What is your response to those answers? In particular see Post Nos. 176, 177 & 178

My friend, please do not see my tardiness as ignoring your questions. I am simply trying as best I can to work through them, given my current busy situation.

God bless

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[SteveVH]

My friend, please do not see my tardiness as ignoring your questions. I am simply trying as best I can to work through them, given my current busy situation.

God bless

.

Not a problem. Take your time. It is just a little frustrating when you ask me specific questions, I answer them and then get no response from you. It feels similar to when you are talking to a person who you know, by their very demeanor, are not listening, they are just waiting for you to finish so that they can continue. We have all experienced that.

Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time.

Peace.

Steve

 

[SteveVH]

Thanks Steve, I don’t deny Jesus, just like I don’t deny one of my children over the other.

They each have unique attributes, talents and qualities, and I love each of them for who they are, God’s children

And therein lies the error in the Baha’i paradigm. Jesus is not just another of many. He is absolutely unique as the only begotten Son of God. No one compares to him; not Moses nor Zoroaster, nor Buddha, nor Krishna, nor Muhammad, nor Baha’u’llah. Denying Jesus’ uniqueness as the incarnation of the Almighty God is denying his very identity and missing the boat completely.

In like manner, I value what each Prophet has wrought. To assert acclaim for Jesus and Jesus only denies the historical claims of Krishna, who was equally Divine, according to Hindu Scripture…

Well, anyone can make a claim, Servant. I could make that claim. What criteria do the Baha’i use to discern the validity of the claim?

Peace.

Steve

 

[eddie_too]

so, what are the articles of faith for the bahi system of thought and belief?

what must a human believe to be a faithful bahi?

since anything that is written and in a sense spoken can be interpreted in more than one way, it is not sufficient to say that what a bahi must believe is what is contained in baba’s and Bahaullah’s writings. those writings can be understood in many different ways, even conflicting and contradictory ways. we have evidence of this through the existence of break away groups of bahi.

has the universal house of justice compiled a bahi articles of faith?
do the bahi have a creed?

to whom does each bahi surrender their authority over what constitutes the true teachings of baba and Bahaullah?

the universal house of justice is simply a democratic process where its members vote on the meanings of the writings of bab and Bahaullah. while this may provide resolution to those who believe in democracy, to those who believe you cannot determine the truth through the process of voting on a question, democratic methods of determining the truth are of little value.

unlike every other system of belief, only in the true religion, the true Church, the RCC is the truth determined by Jesus through what He taught the twelve apostles. or, in other words, the truth is what Jesus brought to us in His Person and that truth exists today through the grace of apostolic succession.

Jesus established a hierarchy within the Christian community. Jesus commanded the apostles and their successors to provide the truth He gave them to all of mankind.

like I said before, no religion can contain all of the truth and yet be unable to define it clearly and succinctly.

it is possible for any human being to know exactly what the RCC teaches and also to know the degree of certainty with which everything taught is known.

that is the ONLY religion and the ONLY Church that has that particular charism.

 

[tonyfish58]

so, what are the articles of faith for the Baha’i system of thought and belief? has the universal house of justice compiled a Baha’i articles of faith?
do the Baha’i have a creed?

Eddie - I would love to answer all your questions but dear friend in God Time does not permit! maybe - but I will give it a go

May I direct you to the Constitution of the Universal House of Justice - This is a wonderful read and I hope you find time it will answer a lot of your questions

info.bahai.org/article-1-3-6-1.html

what must a human believe to be a faithful bahi?

In the Oneness of God and in all His prophets, then following the Laws, both are required.

since anything that is written and in a sense spoken can be interpreted in more than one way, it is not sufficient to say that what a bahi must believe is what is contained in baba’s and Bahaullah’s writings. those writings can be understood in many different ways, even conflicting and contradictory ways. we have evidence of this through the existence of break away groups of bahai.

Firstly there is no Division of the Baha’i Faith, many tried all have failed and will continue to fail, the Net does not tell it as it is and is a poor place to gather that type of evidence. I think there may be one group of about 40 still trying! They too will fail.

Though a Baha’i is free to offer there own interpretation, that is all it is and thus will not cause a division. There is an Authority to that Word to which all can seek clarification.

to whom does each bahi surrender their authority over what constitutes the true teachings of Bab and Bahaullah?

The Universal House of Justice ordained by Baha’u’llah and given Infallibility as a whole, not as an individual

the universal house of justice is simply a democratic process where its members vote on the meanings of the writings of bab and Bahaullah. while this may provide resolution to those who believe in democracy, to those who believe you cannot determine the truth through the process of voting on a question, democratic methods of determining the truth are of little value.

This is not correct read the link above.

unlike every other system of belief, only in the true religion, the true Church, the RCC is the truth determined by Jesus through what He taught the twelve apostles. or, in other words, the truth is what Jesus brought to us in His Person and that truth exists today through the grace of apostolic succession.

This is also in the Baha’i Faith but indeed a lot clearer. There is a Written line of Succession given by the Pen of Baha’u’llah and under His Seal, it is unquestionable as to its intent and who/how it was to be.

Jesus established a hierarchy within the Christian community. Jesus commanded the apostles and their successors to provide the truth He gave them to all of mankind.

This is also in the Faith of Baha’u’llah

like I said before, no religion can contain all of the truth and yet be unable to define it clearly and succinctly.

Dear Eddie too - It can not be clearer

it is possible for any human being to know exactly what the RCC teaches and also to know the degree of certainty with which everything taught is known.

Thus also in the Baha’i Faith, but dear friend it will be a lot better person than I

that is the ONLY religion and the ONLY Church that has that particular charism.

Only if one closes their eyes to the others

God Bless and regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

So, what are the articles of faith for the Baha’i system of thought and belief?

What must a human believe to be a faithful Baha’i?

Has the universal house of justice compiled a Baha’i articles of faith?

Do the Baha’i have a creed?

To whom does each Baha’i surrender their authority over what constitutes the true teachings of Bab and Baha’u’llah

Eddie too - An extract from the above link that covers all your questions

“Bahá’u’lláh, the Revealer of God’s Word in this Day, the Source of Authority, the Fountainhead of Justice, the Creator of a new World Order, the Establisher of the Most Great Peace, the Inspirer and Founder of a world civilization, the Judge, the Lawgiver, the Unifier and Redeemer of all mankind, has proclaimed the advent of God’s Kingdom on earth, has formulated its laws and ordinances, enunciated its principles, and ordained its institutions. To direct and canalize the forces released by His Revelation He instituted His Covenant, whose power has preserved the integrity of His Faith, maintained its unity and stimulated its world-wide expansion throughout the successive ministries of `Abdu’l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi. It continues to fulfil its life-giving purpose through the agency of the Universal House of Justice whose fundamental object, as one of the twin successors of Bahá’u’lláh and 'Abdu’l-Bahá, is to ensure the continuity of that divinely-appointed authority which flows from the Source of the Faith, to safeguard the unity of its followers, and to maintain the integrity and flexibility of its teachings”.

Dear friend in Gods Love, as you can see, the Baha’i Faith does have a set line of Authority.

The Love of Christ must so permeate our Souls that we see all mankind as one, to me this is the essence of Christs Word and His Faith to be one with Him and all of Gods Creatures.

If one does not grasp a Truth or shows us ill Will, we only Love in return and continue showing Gods Love. When we find traces of what is of God we look at the attribute. If a person has 99 Faults and One attribute, it is to this one we look.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I asked earlier and didn’t get a responce. A clear responce anyway. Is Christianity equally true, valid and or legitimate to the bahai?

 

[tonyfish58]

I asked earlier and didn’t get a response. A clear response anyway. Is Christianity equally true, valid and or legitimate to the bahai?

IgnatianPhilo - Dear friend in God

The answer can be given in a short response, it would be Like God said, “Let there be light”.

But what is behind that Short "Let there be light” declaration of God? Some will take it at face value and the Full Importance of the Statement will be Lost. Some immediately know the magnificence of what was said!

All religions Are Born, Reach their Zenith, and then Decline and then are Born again.

At the Time they are Born Again if the religious leaders do not accept the new truth, then they are plunged into the darkness. The Born Again Faith then Progresses on to its Zenith and the Process moves on.

The Time for Christianity and all who went before was the Revelation of Muhummad, the time from the Muslim and all who went before was the Revelations of the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

In the end it is to God and His Love we all must turn. We can make that complicated or not so

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Ha Ha - I can not help myself

I came back, Gee I must Love you all

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

IgnatianPhilo - Dear friend in God

The answer can be given in a short response, it would be Like God said, “Let there be light”.

But what is behind that Short "Let there be light” declaration of God? Some will take it at face value and the Full Importance of the Statement will be Lost. Some immediately know the magnificence of what was said!

All religions Are Born, Reach their Zenith, and then Decline and then are Born again.

At the Time they are Born Again if the religious leaders do not accept the new truth, then they are plunged into the darkness. The Born Again Faith then Progresses on to its Zenith and the Process moves on.

The Time for Christianity and all who went before was the Revelation of Muhummad, the time from the Muslim and all who went before was the Revelations of the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

In the end it is to God and His Love we all must turn. We can make that complicated or not so

God Bless and Regards Tony

Bahai love to give non answers it seems. Its a simple question, is the Christian religion equally valid, beneficial and true to bahai? There is no answer in this. This is just the baby babble, everything is love, response I have to expect of bahai. Are you content with being unclear, nonsensical and utterly meaningless? Because that’s all I can conclude about your religion, it means nothing other than what you make it. There is no truth to it. I’ll ask again, is Christianity equally true to your religion? Hmmm? Think you can manage an actual response?

 

[tonyfish58]

Bahai love to give non answers it seems. Its a simple question, is the Christian religion equally valid, beneficial and true to bahai? There is no answer in this. This is just the baby babble, everything is love, response I have to expect of bahai. Are you content with being unclear, nonsensical and utterly meaningless? Because that’s all I can conclude about your religion, it means nothing other than what you make it. There is no truth to it. I’ll ask again, is Christianity equally true to your religion? Hmmm? Think you can manage an actual response?

This is not and there are a lot of question that do not Just have a YES or No answer dear friend.

It would be a deception to a true seeker of truth to give an answer that is not explained within a proper context.

As our intent is to deceive no Soul, I have attempted an answer that to me gave the answer you were after. Thus I will leave it at that and acknowledge my inabilities.

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Bahai love to give non answers it seems. Its a simple question, is the Christian religion equally valid, beneficial and true to bahai? There is no answer in this. This is just the baby babble, everything is love, response I have to expect of bahai. Are you content with being unclear, nonsensical and utterly meaningless? Because that’s all I can conclude about your religion, it means nothing other than what you make it. There is no truth to it. I’ll ask again, is Christianity equally true to your religion? Hmmm? Think you can manage an actual response?

Let me say this, Truth doesn’t revolve around whether Jesus was resurrected or not, and whether He is God or not.

Truth revolves around Faith in God, and doing His Will. End of story.

Now what that Will is differs from Age to Age, so to answer your question…

If I lived in the year 100BC, Truth lay in Judaism.
If I lived in the year 100AD, Truth lay in Christianity, but this does not deny the truths enshrined in Judaism.
If I lived today, Truth lies in the Bahai Faith, but this does not deny the truths enshrined in previous Revelations.



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