One correct religion with the Truth (part 2)?

[eddie_too]

servant 19 wrote this: “I guess the only proof I can give you is to read the Writings of the Bab and ask yourself if you feel it is God speaking to you, with prayer-fulness and reverence.”

anyone familiar with Mormon missionaries recognize servant19’s words above as being almost identical to those of the Mormon missionaries. the Mormons use this tactic repeatedly as their fall back position when facts, logic and reason abandon them and their beliefs.

how can a person refute such a claim, ergo that one’s feelings as they read someone’s words are to be the definitive determination as to whether the words are true and from our Creator?

both the bahai and the Mormons suggest this little technique. that alone should convince an objective believer that it is little more than a psychological trick and has no relationship to God or the truth.

 

[Servant19]

servant 19 wrote this: “I guess the only proof I can give you is to read the Writings of the Bab and ask yourself if you feel it is God speaking to you, with prayer-fulness and reverence.”

anyone familiar with Mormon missionaries recognize servant19’s words above as being almost identical to those of the Mormon missionaries. the Mormons use this tactic repeatedly as their fall back position when facts, logic and reason abandon them and their beliefs.

how can a person refute such a claim, ergo that one’s feelings as they read someone’s words are to be the definitive determination as to whether the words are true and from our Creator?

both the bahai and the Mormons suggest this little technique. that alone should convince an objective believer that it is little more than a psychological trick and has no relationship to God or the truth.

Dear eddie, if you look further into my post you will come to realise that I have given up offering the Bahai interpretations of prophecy.

You believe Elijah returned in the body of John the Baptist yet cannot accept that Jesus would return in a similar manner.

The Muslims accept Jesus who implied finality of Revelation and here is Muhammad with a new Revelation, yet Muslims cannot accept that maybe Muhammad too might not be the final Revelation…

What is a man to do? Lol

Have you ever studied the meaning of “the leaven of the Pharisees”?
It’s interesting how this leaven repeats from Last Day to Last Day…



.

 

[JamesCarr]

John 20:26-27

26After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.” 27Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Luke 24:36-37

36While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have. When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.”

Dear friend, this is a complicated matter. The spiritual Truth that Jesus was resurrected spiritually was a critical juncture in Judeo-Christian transition.

I understand the points you are asserting here where you have highlighted and correctly so. I personally see the Letters of Paul as a more pure and authentic representation of early Christian understanding of the resurrection.

I feel the Gospels were written as a means of sharing spiritual Truths, rather than historical facts.

I was hoping you could answer the question with intellectual honesty instead of telling me in general about it being a spiritual, dear friend. What spiritual meaning do you see in these passages?

Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

…and…

Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.

These are the Words of Jesus. Why would He even bother telling Thomas to stick his finger into His Holy Wounds if He intends it to be taken spiritually? Are not His teachings to be taken literally apart from His parables?

Also do insert the verses from the Letters of Paul which you were talking about. Thanks.

I don’t know what to think anymore, as if my mind is about to be shattered…

Anyways, do you know of any links that has videos of this Baha’u’llah going about his daily life or something? I want to see him for myself, if possible.

Thank you

 

[tonyfish58]

I was hoping you could answer the question with intellectual honesty instead of telling me in general about it being a spiritual, dear friend. What spiritual meaning do you see in these passages?

I see the important clue to these passages in verse 29 "Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Also of interest is passages 11-16

11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”

“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”

Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”

16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

One also has to ask why Mary did not recognize Jesus!

Whatever Mary and the Disciples experienced was to confirm their Faith so they could carry on Teaching the Faith of Christ.

These passages should never become a hindrance of Excepting a new message from God.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[JamesCarr]

I see the important clue to these passages in verse 29 "Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Also of interest is passages 11-16

11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”

“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”

Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”

16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

One also has to ask why Mary did not recognize Jesus!

Whatever Mary and the Disciples experienced was to confirm their Faith so they could carry on Teaching the Faith of Christ.

These passages should never become a hindrance of Excepting a new message from God.

God Bless and Regards Tony

Valid point Tony. However, where did His Body go? Unless He was resurrected from the same physical body, why was the Body missing?

If I am going to accept the theory that the Resurrection is a spiritual one, it gives me many reasons to also believe that all of His miracles are merely “sleight of hand” or the disciples merely written exaggerated accounts in order that hope do not die among His followers. Anyone could also claimed to be our resurrected Jesus during those times. Can you understand the doubts that whirls in my mind right now? What if all the texts written about God were mere human imaginations who wishes to be part of something much greater?

Who can believe in anything then? Have we believed what we were taught in vain? Who knows perhaps all this faith and beliefs is a mere hoax? Honestly, I am caught right in between at this point because there are a couple points brought up seemed possible.

Frankly, to dwell on the possibility if Jesus really came as Baha’i says and that I have actually missed Him against the possibility that my entire faith and beliefs is a darn hoax is a mental strain & torture for me at this point…I just don’t know what to believe anymore.

I feel like a broken toy now…

 

[tonyfish58]

a few commands of Jesus that Bahaullah did not obey?

1. go out and preach the gospel to all nations.
2. do this in memory of me.
3. unless you eat of My Body and drink of My Blood, you cannot have life within you.
4. follow the teachings of the apostles.

that would be four commands of Jesus that Baha’ullah did not follow.

This method of refuting Sounds a bit like this Eddie Too;

Jews do not believe that Jesus was divine, the Son of God, or the Messiah prophesied in Jewish scriptures. He is seen as a “false messiah,” meaning someone who claimed (or whose followers claimed for him) the mantle of the Messiah but who ultimately did not meet the requirements laid out in Jewish beliefs. According to Jewish scripture and belief, the true Messiah (pronounced “moshiach” in Hebrew) must meet the following requirements. He must:

Be an observant Jewish man descended from the house of King David
Be an ordinary human being (as opposed to the Son of God)
Bring peace to the world
Gather all Jews back into Israel
Rebuild the ancient Temple in Jerusalem
Unite humanity in the worship of the Jewish God and Torah observance

Because Jesus did not meet these requirements, from the Jewish perspective he was not the Messiah.

But dear Eddie Too Jesus theChrist is who He says He is, thus using your arguments, we can conclude that so Is Baha’u’llah.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

That is one of the main reasons Muslims don’t become Baha’is. The Bab, had declared that he was the Promised Mahdi of Islam. According to Islamic doctrine, the Mahdi was supposed to fill the world with Peace and Justice once and for all and rule over this world. The Bab came and nothing happened except for more chaos, injustice and divisions.

That is interesting!

It is also why the Jews did not accept Christ or Muhummad.

The Law has been Given by God - That we Humans still use our Free Will to reject Gods Laws is baffling is it not!

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Valid point Tony. However, where did His Body go? Unless He was resurrected from the same physical body, why was the Body missing?

If I am going to accept the theory that the Resurrection is a spiritual one, it gives me many reasons to also believe that all of His miracles are merely “sleight of hand” or the disciples merely written exaggerated accounts in order that hope do not die among His followers. Anyone could also claimed to be our resurrected Jesus during those times. Can you understand the doubts that whirls in my mind right now? What if all the texts written about God were mere human imaginations who wishes to be part of something much greater?

Who can believe in anything then? Have we believed what we were taught in vain? Who knows perhaps all this faith and beliefs is a mere hoax? Honestly, I am caught right in between at this point because there are a couple points brought up seemed possible.

Frankly, to dwell on the possibility if Jesus really came as Baha’i says and that I have actually missed Him against the possibility that my entire faith and beliefs is a darn hoax is a mental strain & torture for me at this point…I just don’t know what to believe anymore.

I feel like a broken toy now…

Dear JamesCarr - Yes I full appreciate your concerns dear friend in God. Be assured that God will fix any broken toy, we only have to ask and then have Faith we will get a reply. Nothing we have learned is in vain, all helps us towards the Love of God.

What I have found is that when one accepts a new view it does not make us feel bad and wrong but thankful to God. If we open out heart we are not shown the wrong way, The trick is letting go of our own views!

The resurrection of Christ will always be Great, it was the Dawn of a New Day a new Word from God destined to spread throughout the world.

Christ Himself has told us that Flesh Profiteth Nothing, it is to the Spirit we must turn and live this life in Love and Fellowship

I pray for your peace of mind dear friend, we all reach this sate of anxiety in Faith and it happens many times, God will always test His servants. The secret is to wish for these moments so we can learn and perfect our soul. They are blessings.

The Bab Suffered as did Christ there missions on earth nearly identical in happenings. Baha’ullah Suffered 40 years of imprisonment as the Bible said He would to bring us this message of Peace and Love. He gave us His son Abdul’Baha as a perfect example as to how to live our lives. The stories amazing!

Why man rejects the messengers? God protect us all from our ignorance!

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Bahais speaks volumes about their ‘Persecution’ in Iran. But Baha’i is far from the largest persecuted group of people. Thus their claims that they are the one true religion using their persecution is not valid.

Dear JamesCarr - Sorry to bring this old thread up, I have been away fro 10 days and missed a lot of this conversation on martyrdom for a Cause as Proof of Faith.

It was just that I read tonight where Baha’u’llah says why can it not be used as a Proof!.

Baha’u’llah says in fact this act is a proof, as if it was not a true path one would have to be insane to choose this path, or assured of the Faith.

Now if this was one or only two individuals, then not so much as a proof, but with the Revelation of the Bab and Baha’u’llah over 30 thousand souls gave their lives and not their Faith in the first few years. These were Doctors, Mullahs, businessmen in fact people from all walks of life. (A lot more since)

This type of Love is of God. All these sane people knew what would befall them if they did not refute their new found Love of God. They all embraced their fate with Joy and Longing.

If you read some of those stories the way some of these people went to their Lord is Horrific and shows a superhuman fortitude that can only come from a higher power.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[JamesCarr]

Dear JamesCarr - Sorry to bring this old thread up, I have been away fro 10 days and missed a lot of this conversation on martyrdom for a Cause as Proof of Faith.

It was just that I read tonight where Baha’u’llah says why can it not be used as a Proof!.

Baha’u’llah says in fact this act is a proof, as if it was not a true path one would have to be insane to choose this path, or assured of the Faith.

Now if this was one or only two individuals, then not so much as a proof, but with the Revelation of the Bab and Baha’u’llah over 30 thousand souls gave their lives and not their Faith in the first few years. These were Doctors, Mullahs, businessmen in fact people from all walks of life. (A lot more since)

This type of Love is of God. All these sane people knew what would befall them if they did not refute their new found Love of God. They all embraced their fate with Joy and Longing.

If you read some of those stories the way some of these people went to their Lord is Horrific and shows a superhuman fortitude that can only come from a higher power.

God Bless and Regards Tony

I understand your perspectives & Servant19’s too, which comes from your faith and I respect that, dear friend. Pride has caused me to defend my own faith blindly (not w/o reason too), thereby not allowing me to open my heart to really compare each other views w/o being biased. It is probably obvious to you that I was pretty infuriated & frustrated at the arguments here. It is after all what I grew up in but I shall not justify myself either. However lets not forget, that for me to accept what Baha’u’llah say as the truth, I will first need to find out if what the Holy Bible says is in accord with what Baha’u’llah taught, without having to pull passages out of contexts and consider both interpretations as reasonably as my state of mind can accept. It is not going to be an easy journey for me but for me to finally end all the “what ifs”, its a journey I will need to embark. There are already certain doubts in my mind now, that it is too late now to turn back and not research further myself. In the meantime, I will also be seeking guidance from a couple of priests regularly at my parish if I have unanswerable questions, so that my own mind will not be on the brink of insanity during this journey lol…

Servant19 has offered his help with such sincerity that I am unable to refuse and I welcome you to join us in the studies.

 

[tonyfish58]

I understand your perspectives & Servant19’s too, which comes from your faith and I respect that, dear friend. Pride has caused me to defend my own faith blindly (not w/o reason too), thereby not allowing me to open my heart to really compare each other views w/o being biased. It is probably obvious to you that I was pretty infuriated & frustrated at the arguments here. It is after all what I grew up in but I shall not justify myself either. However lets not forget, that for me to accept what Baha’u’llah say as the truth, I will first need to find out if what the Holy Bible says is in accord with what Baha’u’llah taught, without having to pull passages out of contexts and consider both interpretations as reasonably as my state of mind can accept. It is not going to be an easy journey for me but for me to finally end all the “what ifs”, its a journey I will need to embark. There are already certain doubts in my mind now, that it is too late now to turn back and not research further myself. In the meantime, I will also be seeking guidance from a couple of priests regularly at my parish if I have unanswerable questions, so that my own mind will not be on the brink of insanity during this journey lol…

Servant19 has offered his help with such sincerity that I am unable to refuse and I welcome you to join us in the studies.

Dear JamesCarr - I wish you well in your search and would be humbled to share your journey. You can contact me anytime

The Hidden Words of Baha’u’llah are a great source of inspiration and the First you have already embraced

O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/index.html

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

I was hoping you could answer the question with intellectual honesty instead of telling me in general about it being a spiritual, dear friend. What spiritual meaning do you see in these passages?

Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

…and…

Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.

These are the Words of Jesus. Why would He even bother telling Thomas to stick his finger into His Holy Wounds if He intends it to be taken spiritually? Are not His teachings to be taken literally apart from His parables?

Also do insert the verses from the Letters of Paul which you were talking about. Thanks.

I don’t know what to think anymore, as if my mind is about to be shattered…

Anyways, do you know of any links that has videos of this Baha’u’llah going about his daily life or something? I want to see him for myself, if possible.

Thank you

Hi there James, I have already addressed your concerns via PM, and I hope you can find some solace in our newfound friendship

I will re-post what I addressed with you via PM about this subject, here, so that othes can chime in and hopefully provide you with a balanced perspective on the interpretation of these verses.

Firstly, Tony makes some very valid points and it is important, critically important to read the Scriptures with precision and clarity and test the meanings that they convey using our God-given gifts of reason and intellect.

Go does not wish to “confuse” His loved ones and if you believe that you were made in His image then you must use reason as the balance in such things.

As I stated via PM, the Baha’i Faith fully endorses the primacy of Peter and His gift of interpreting the Revelation of Christ is beyond question. We will also see that Peter also endorses Paul as a correct interpreter of the Revelation in terms of its meanings for His loved ones. Peter and Paul were the earliest writers in the Christian community and therefore represent the closest thing we have to the true meanings of these concepts, Resurrection being one of them.

In this light, please may I humbly ask that you listen to and study this lecture given by a Baha’i and share any questions you may have so we can, as you say, take this journey together

youtu.be/kGeI0-GkmnY

In light of how we can reconcile the clear teachings of “spiritual resurrection” taught by Peter and Paul, and in fact the yearning of Paul to shed His body so He can be re-united with His beloved Jesus in spirit, with the clear physical expressions of the Gospels, we must remember the apologetic statement made in the Gospel of John:
*
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.*

Hermeneutics seem to indicate the same conclusion with the Gospel narratives. While they may be historically true in terms of the clarity of the visions experienced, the true spiritual message and purpose is fully elucidated by Paul.

“I have made death messenger of joy to thee” is a statement made by Baha’u’llah which I feel is fully endorsed by Paul

God bless you

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[SteveVH]

"TOUCH ME AND SEE; A GHOST DOES NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONES, AS YOU SEE I HAVE."

Servant, exactly what “spiritual Truth” do you believe is being conveyed here?

Not only does Jesus specifically say that he has a body, he invites Thomas to actually touch it because he, like you, did not believe it.

This is what happens when you embrace doctrines and beliefs that conflict. Jesus’ own words contradict your preconceived notion that he rose only spiritually. You are trying to juggle both Christian and Islamic doctrines at the same time and it simply doesn’t work unless you taint one or the other (or both) with your own Baha’i spin. I hope you will at east admit this to yourself even if you can’t bear to admit it publicly on this forum. Why would Jesus say such a thing? Please answer this question and this question only, for the time being.

Thank you.

Peace

Steve

Servant, I think you overlooked this post of mine. I can see that you are quite busy but when you get around to it I would appreciate your response.

Thank you.

Steve

 

[Servant19]

Servant, I think you overlooked this post of mine. I can see that you are quite busy but when you get around to it I would appreciate your response.

Thank you.

Steve

Hi Steve, my apologies.

As I have mentioned in the past, and on this thread, I see the Gospels as apologetic narratives designed for a specific population, and this is verified by New Testament scholars, and also verified in the first chapter of John itself. I cannot deny that these narratives may well have been historically accurate, some visions are extremely realistic, as was seen in the Transfiguration.

However, the spiritual purpose of these accounts was to deny that Jesus was killed and does not live on, and most certainly is not amongst the cursed (Deuteronomy 21:23). In fact he was not accounted amongst any of the Greco-Roman post-motem apparitions which would indicate that He was indeed dead.

michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/GhostLuke24.pdf

The truth about Jesus is found in Paul and Peter’s Letters which were intended to deepen the faith for the believers and their understanding of death.

Indeed Paul yearned to join Jesus and shed His physical body and re-unite with Him in spirit.

These concepts are more thoroughly explored here:
youtu.be/kGeI0-GkmnY

…please take note that a spiritual resurrection in no way lessens the Divinity of Jesus. He was Divine before a physical body and remains so after His physical body is shed…

God bless you brother

.

 

[SteveVH]

Hi Steve, my apologies.

As I have mentioned in the past, and on this thread, I see the Gospels as apologetic narratives designed for a specific population, and this is verified by New Testament scholars, and also verified in the first chapter of John itself. I cannot deny that these narratives may well have been historically accurate, some visions are extremely realistic, as was seen in the Transfiguration.

Servant, several posts ago you accused me of the following:

Originally Posted by Servant
(you do realise that what you are implying here is that the Baha’i community are liars and are being lied to by the Universal House of Justice when we say that there are no schisms of the Baha’i Faith)

The Catholic Church, who proclaimed that the Gospel of Luke was the inerrant word of God, teaches us that these words were indeed spoken by Christ. So either Christ is lying or the Catholic Church is lying. This is what you are more than implying by your statement.

“Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” (Luke 24:38-39)

Jesus was not engaged in some theological argument, or teaching through some parable. He was standing in the presence of the Apostles and invited Thomas, who thought Jesus was only a spirit or ghost, to touch his body. Jesus himself says that he has flesh and bone. It is either true or it is not. You are denying the very One whom you claim to be a “Manifestation of God”. You are making up your own “Christ” so that he fits in to what you wish to believe.

There is nothing in the account that even implies that this was some “vision”. One does not touch flesh and bone in a vision, not to mention that all of the Apostles who were gathered together would have had to experience the same vision at the same time. To be honest, at this point I don’t even know why I am trying to explain this to you.

However, the spiritual purpose of these accounts was to deny that Jesus was killed and does not live on, and most certainly is not amongst the cursed (Deuteronomy 21:23). In fact he was not accounted amongst any of the Greco-Roman post-motem apparitions which would indicate that He was indeed dead.

So they just made up a story? That would not only be false, but utterly deceitful. I really have just about had enough. There is no end to the lengths you will go to deny Christianity, which you pretend to embrace. What you embrace is a creation of your own making.

michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/GhostLuke24.pdf

The truth about Jesus is found in Paul and Peter’s Letters which were intended to deepen the faith for the believers and their understanding of death.

Indeed Paul yearned to join Jesus and shed His physical body and re-unite with Him in spirit.

These concepts are more thoroughly explored here:
youtu.be/kGeI0-GkmnY

…please take note that a spiritual resurrection in no way lessens the Divinity of Jesus. He was Divine before a physical body and remains so after His physical body is shed…

Servant, I do not need a lessen in Christianity from you. I am more than familiar with Peter and Paul’s statements, which you misunderstand, misinterpret and twist to fit your paradigm with no consideration for the teachings of the Church from whence it came.

Steve

 

[Servant19]

Servant, several posts ago you accused me of the following:

The Catholic Church, who proclaimed that the Gospel of Luke was the inerrant word of God, teaches us that these words were indeed spoken by Christ. So either Christ is lying or the Catholic Church is lying. This is what you are more than implying by your statement.

“Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” (Luke 24:38-39)

Jesus was not engaged in some theological argument, or teaching through some parable. He was standing in the presence of the Apostles and invited Thomas, who thought Jesus was only a spirit or ghost, to touch his body. Jesus himself says that he has flesh and bone. It is either true or it is not. You are denying the very One whom you claim to be a “Manifestation of God”. You are making up your own “Christ” so that he fits in to what you wish to believe.

There is nothing in the account that even implies that this was some “vision”. One does not touch flesh and bone in a vision, not to mention that all of the Apostles who were gathered together would have had to experience the same vision at the same time. To be honest, at this point I don’t even know why I am trying to explain this to you.

So they just made up a story? That would not only be false, but utterly deceitful. I really have just about had enough. There is no end to the lengths you will go to deny Christianity, which you pretend to embrace. What you embrace is a creation of your own making.

michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/GhostLuke24.pdf

Servant, I do not need a lessen in Christianity from you. I am more than familiar with Peter and Paul’s statements, which you misunderstand, misinterpret and twist to fit your paradigm with no consideration for the teachings of the Church from whence it came.

Steve

Dear brother, I am not stating any form of dishonesty from the Church. Please remember that I am not making things up as I am going along.

I am simply stating that neither Peter or Paul, who the Church would willingly state as the chief Apostles never once state that the Resurrection was a physical one. On the contrary in fact, the spiritual resurrection is endorsed heavily by both Apostles. I am not going to extreme lengths dear friend, if you have any passage from Paul that can endorse a physical resurrection, I would appreciate the learning.

I think the two Apostles had hierarchical authority over Luke (who never met Jesus ever), whereas both Peter and Paul did.

That’s all I’m saying, humbly, dear friend…



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[peace_at_last]

Hi there peace at last.

I guess the only proof I can give you is to read the Writings of the Bab and ask yourself if you feel it is God speaking to you, with prayer-fulness and reverence.

Any explanations I give you in terms of fulfilling prophecies etc will not be acceptable unless you fully open-hearted to such explanations…The seven years, the seed of Fatimih, etc etc, will not be of any use to you I suspect

Salaam al-aykum dear brother.

.

As some other members have stated, I guess you neither have any proof nor argument.

 

[Servant19]

As some other members have stated, I guess you neither have any proof nor argument.

I guess I don’t dear brother

What a wonderful age we live in that enables us to discover Truth with the click of a mouse button!

Allah is indeed great. Subhan’u’llah!!



.

 

[peace_at_last]

I guess I don’t dear brother

What a wonderful age we live in that enables us to discover Truth with the click of a mouse button!

Allah is indeed great. Subhan’u’llah!!



.

Yes truly a great age.

But sometimes there is no truth in something at all, so no matter how many mouse buttons one clicks, nothing will come up to prove the Bab was who he claimed to be

Of course, the burden of proof is upon the one who claims there is proof

 

[Servant19]

Yes truly a great age.

But sometimes there is no truth in something at all, so no matter how many mouse buttons one clicks, nothing will come up to prove the Bab was who he claimed to be

Of course, the burden of proof is upon the one who claims there is proof

Of course, dear brother. Muhammad’s proof was His Revelation of the Quran. I invite you to apply the same test on the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

Otherwise where in the Bible does it speak of Muhammad?



.