One differance btwn Christianity & Islam

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eichenb2

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I came across an interesting discussion in an Islamic forum about concubinage. I wanted to share it, for the benefit of Muslims, who God has led to this forum. Specifically, Muslim women should be concerned.
The Qur’an gives permission for Muslim men to marry up to 4 wives, but to have as many female slaves (concubines) as he is able. In the Shari’a (Islamic law), the male owner can have intercourse with these slaves whenever he wills. If she refuses, he can beat her…then have intercourse 😦 . A Muslim apologist will respond that, although this was allowed, it is not the best course of action and a truly good Muslim should not do this. All agree to this, but if it is wrong God should have said so. One interesting quote that I came on a fatwa (religious ruling) forum indicated that the slave girl is like a fish.

"In other words, just as legal possession of a fish that has been fished out of the water, makes it Halaal for human consumption without the initiation of a formal slaughtering process; similarly legal possession of a slave woman made her Halaal for the purpose of coition with her owner without the initiation of a formal marriage ceremony. "

Btw, Halaal means legaly permissible. I think this is useful in identifying one of the main differences between the two religions. In Islam, might makes right. Basically, God is on the side of the combatant with the biggest gun. In Christianity, true strength is the ability to sacrifice oneself for the good of others. This sacrifice is done from what a non-Christian would view as a position of weakness. To a Muslim, the Messiah (Al MassiH in Arabic) hanging dead on a cross is not victory. A Christian, though, understands that True Strength is Weakness (in service to the other), Victory (Christian Perfection & Salvation),comes through Defeat and one has to Die to Live.
 
Another difference.

Christians worship the real God.

Mahometans don’t.

**Isa akbar!

Isa akbar!

ISA AKBAR!

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**
 
eichenb2 said:
I came across an interesting discussion in an Islamic forum about concubinage. I wanted to share it, for the benefit of Muslims, who God has led to this forum. Specifically, Muslim women should be concerned.
The Qur’an gives permission for Muslim men to marry up to 4 wives, but to have as many female slaves (concubines) as he is able. In the Shari’a (Islamic law), the male owner can have intercourse with these slaves whenever he wills. If she refuses, he can beat her…then have intercourse 😦 . A Muslim apologist will respond that, although this was allowed, it is not the best course of action and a truly good Muslim should not do this. All agree to this, but if it is wrong God should have said so. One interesting quote that I came on a fatwa (religious ruling) forum indicated that the slave girl is like a fish.

"In other words, just as legal possession of a fish that has been fished out of the water, makes it Halaal for human consumption without the initiation of a formal slaughtering process; similarly legal possession of a slave woman made her Halaal for the purpose of coition with her owner without the initiation of a formal marriage ceremony. "

Btw, Halaal means legaly permissible. I think this is useful in identifying one of the main differences between the two religions. In Islam, might makes right. Basically, God is on the side of the combatant with the biggest gun. In Christianity, true strength is the ability to sacrifice oneself for the good of others. This sacrifice is done from what a non-Christian would view as a position of weakness. To a Muslim, the Messiah (Al MassiH in Arabic) hanging dead on a cross is not victory. A Christian, though, understands that True Strength is Weakness (in service to the other), Victory (Christian Perfection & Salvation),comes through Defeat and one has to Die to Live.
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I noticed this from muslim in the Philippines and I made this point in the Spread of Islam in the Phil. thread.
 
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Salaam/peace
eichenb2 said:
…The Qur’an gives permission for Muslim men to marry up to 4 wives, but to have as many female slaves (concubines) as he is able. .
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Jesus (p) allowed Solomon (p) to had 700 concubines , any commnet ?
 
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Salaam/peace
Jay53 said:
I don’t believe Jesus was on the earth at the same time as Solomon. ??
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huh , very funny. You are a Catholic & u don’t believe that Jesus (p) was God always ?
 
Muslim_Woman said:
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

Jesus (p) allowed Solomon (p) to had 700 concubines , any commnet ?
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Good Question. It is one that many a Christian has asked. For starters, let us exam the Biblical text.

1 Kings 11:4-7
4
When Solomon was old his wives had turned his heart to strange gods, and his heart was not entirely with the LORD, his God, as the heart of his father David had been.
5
By adoring Astarte, the goddess of the Sidonians, and Milcom, the idol of the Ammonites,
6
Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not follow him unreservedly as his father David had done.
7
Solomon then built a high place to Chemosh, the idol of Moab, and to Molech, the idol of the Ammonites, on the hill opposite Jerusalem.
8
He did the same for all his foreign wives who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods.​

There is some debate amonst Bible scholars as to the numbering and identification of wives vs. concubines. Nevertheless, you can not read the Bible in the same manner that you read Al-Qur’an. In most instances in the Old Testament, the stories are DEscriptive and not PREscriptive. This follows from the very idea of a New and Old Testament. What we see in the OLD Testament is types and Shadows for what was to come in the New Testament. For example, there are several dietary restrictions placed on Isreal in the OT. These are no longer binding for Christians, as Christ said so. Also, there is a Temple in the Old Testament to central to the religious life of the Jews. This Temple is destroyed and now Christ himself is the Temple. The bottom line is that the stories that you read in the OT are real narratives about real people who sinned. God did not condone it. Similarly, polygamy and concubinage is no longer permitted, as it is Adultery. Since you are a MUSLIM WOMAN, how would you feel if you husband has a dozen of young lady that he used to keep his bed warm, at night? Heck, according to Islam, you could get beat (lightly) by him too, if you complain. :bigyikes:
 
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Salaam/peace
eichenb2 said:
…
… stories that you read in the OT are real narratives about real people who sinned.
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So , Jesus (p) will burn Moses , Abraham , David, Solomon (pbut) in fire ? :eek:
how would you feel if you husband has a dozen of young lady that he used to keep his bed warm, at night?
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maid servants & concubines ( war slaves ) are not the same. Also , a Muslim woman can end her married
life & re-marry if she wants. But a Christian lady can’t remarry because it will be like adultery.

Islam is a practical religion , does not have any such law that is impossible to follow & force people to lie if they need a divorce & remarry.
you could get beat (lightly) by him too, if you complain. :bigyikes:
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Prophet Muhammed (p) never beat any of his wives. If husband is abusive , a Muslim woman can get rid of him. What’s the solution for a Christian wife ?
 
Muslim_Woman said:
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

huh , very funny. You are a Catholic & u don’t believe that Jesus (p) was God always ?
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Of course I do, however at the time of Solomon, God had not been made flesh in Jesus. You specifically said “Jesus allowed Solomon…” Perhaps I should assume that when you mention Jesus you also mean God? Although I know you don’t believe they are the same so I don’t know how that would work for understanding each other. ??? I also noticed you did not provide the quote where either Jesus or God said this was permissable. (And please do not give me quotes from the Quran saying this is permissable: 1) The Quran was obviously not around at the time of Solomon and 2) I don’t believe the Quran is the word of God.) If you have something from the Bible where Jesus specifically said having concubines was permissable, I will be happy to read it.
 
It’s becoming a cheap cliche to defend what Muhammad did based on a misunderstanding of the OT and denying the NT which proves ignorance of both in addition to random picking and choosing- no wonder since there is no theme coherence of the Islamic scriptures but random passages from here and there.
 
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Salaam/peace
Jay53 said:
… at the time of Solomon, God had not been made flesh in Jesus.
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So ? Does it mean Jesus (p) was not God at that time ?
I know you don’t believe they are the same
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Of Course , I don’t . To me , Jesus (p) is the humble servant of God. But to you , he is God always.
Jesus or God said this was permissable.
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If this was not permissible , then why Moses (p) ordered his soldiers to had the young virgins ? U want to say that Moses , Solomon ( pbut ) disobeyed God ?
If you have something from the Bible where Jesus specifically said having concubines was permissable, I will be happy to read it.
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Is there any verse where Jesus (p) said Moses & Solomon (pbut) committed sin to had concubines ?
 
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Salaam/peace
inJESUS said:
It’s becoming a cheap cliche to defend what Muhammad did based on a misunderstanding of the OT .
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OT is not a holy book for Christians anymore ? Don’t u believe the laws were given by Jesus (p) ?

Don’t say that u are ashamed of what Jesus (p) allowed in OT.
 
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Salaam/peace
Eucharisted said:
… I want to clarify the Church’s position on slavery.
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what was the position of Jesus (p) on slavery ? So far as I remember now , he ordered slaves to obey their masters.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace
So , Jesus (p) will burn Moses , Abraham , David, Solomon (pbut) in fire ? :eek:
maid servants & concubines ( war slaves ) are not the same. Also , a Muslim woman can end her married
life & re-marry if she wants. But a Christian lady can’t remarry because it will be like adultery.
Islam is a practical religion , does not have any such law that is impossible to follow & force people to lie if they need a divorce & remarry.
Prophet Muhammed (p) never beat any of his wives. If husband is abusive , a Muslim woman can get rid of him. What’s the solution for a Christian wife ?
Click to expand...
No…Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, etc live in the hope of the Promise (Christ…Messiah…Christos…MeseeH). I am not sure if you know of the Creed agreed to in the 4th century by ALL Christians. I says that Christ, during his death, descended to Sheol (the place of the dead) to release the likes of Abraham. The Catholic Catechism says “Jesus did not descend into hell (Sheol) to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him”.They looked forward to the Cross (Redemption). We look back at the cross (Redemption). It is still the same redemption!
As regards, the concubines of Solomon, the Biblical text clearly indicates that they were more than maids. Muhammad, also, had concubines that were more that maids.
A Christian marriage symbolizes the marriage between Christ and His Church. It is wholly indissoluble! Marriage for Christians is much deeper that a contract with one another. It is a contract with God. There are no divorces. There can be, however, a grant of nullity by the Catholic Church; although, this is not easy for a man or a women. A Christian can requests nullity, in the case of abuse. In Islam, unlike what stated, it is very easy for a man to divorce and very difficult for a woman. I will ask again, though, if wife beating is bad, why would God put it in the Qur’an, in a PREscriptive manner 😦 . Finally, you are apparently laboring under an assumption that Celibacy is bad. The urge to copluate is a strong urge, with a doubt. However, it can be controlled like any other appettite. If you practice Islam, you will know that fasting in Ramadan is difficult, especailly in the summer. It can be done! Everyone is called to celibaby, at least at until they are married (Islam & Christianity).
 
So ? Does it mean Jesus (p) was not God at that time ?
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It means exactly what I said: at the time of Solomon God had not been made flesh in Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.
Of Course , I don’t . To me , Jesus (p) is the humble servant of God. But to you , he is God always.
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Exactly! 👍
If this was not permissible , then why Moses (p) ordered his soldiers to had the young virgins ? U want to say that Moses , Solomon ( pbut ) disobeyed God ?
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I honestly don’t have any idea. I do not have an Old Testament with me here to reference where God told Moses and Solomon this was permissable or why Moses would do that. :confused: I will have to defer to other posters more knowledgable on that subject.
Is there any verse where Jesus (p) said Moses & Solomon (pbut) committed sin to had concubines ?
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This is answering a question with a question and is evasive.:tsktsk:
I don’t know of any verse where Jesus mentions Moses and Solomon specifically with regards to concubines; however, He does say: “Thou shalt not commit adultery. But I say to you that anyone who so much as looks with lust at a woman has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matthew 5:28)
 
Muslim_Woman said:
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Salaam/peace

OT is not a holy book for Christians anymore ? Don’t u believe the laws were given by Jesus (p) ?

Don’t say that u are ashamed of what Jesus (p) allowed in OT.
Click to expand...
The Old Testament has many laws. Some of them are Moral Laws. These are still binding on Christians. For example, theft, murder, adultery are still a sin. Also, there are ceremonial laws. These were abrogated and replaced with new better laws. For example, Baptism replaced Circumsion. Finally, there are civil laws in the OT that were replaced, altered, or abrogated. Stoning a disobedient child is an example. Christians no longer do this, though a swift swap on the rump is not out of the question 😉 . So, yes, the laws were given by Christ in that He is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. They are not all equal, though. Remeber that there is the Spirit of the Law and the Letter of the Law.
Hebrews 10
1
1 Since the law has only a shadow of the good things to come, 2 and not the very image of them, it can never make perfect those who come to worship by the same sacrifices that they offer continually each year.
2
Otherwise, would not the sacrifices have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, once cleansed, would no longer have had any consciousness of sins?
3
But in those sacrifices there is only a yearly remembrance of sins,
4
for it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats take away sins.
5
For this reason, when he came into the world, he said: 3 “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
6
holocausts and sin offerings you took no delight in.
7
Then I said, ‘As is written of me in the scroll, Behold, I come to do your will, O God.’”
8
First he says, “Sacrifices and offerings, holocausts and sin offerings, 4 you neither desired nor delighted in.” These are offered according to the law.
9
Then he says, “Behold, I come to do your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second.
10
By this “will,” we have been consecrated through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 

My favorite verses of the Bible; in reference to the Jewish Law in the lives of Christians.​

19
9 Therefore, brothers, since through the blood of Jesus we have confidence of entrance into the sanctuary
20
10 by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh,
21
11 and since we have “a great priest over the house of God,”
22
let us approach with a sincere heart and in absolute trust, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience 12 and our bodies washed in pure water.
23
Let us hold unwaveringly to our confession that gives us hope, for he who made the promise is trustworthy.
24
We must consider how to rouse one another to love and good works.
 
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