One final hurdle I need to get over

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opdsgt

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I’m over halfway through RCIA now, as an unbaptized, near 40 year old guy who grew up with no religion.

I have studied the sacraments, have read the Compendium cover to cover, am working my way through the Catechism, and have studied early Church history and apologetics. I read the New Testament in a month and am almost done with the Pentateuch. I pray and fellowship with others daily.

One of the last things I’m trying to reconcile is the breadth and depth of the Church’s rules, teachings, doctrines, sacraments, obligations, etc. It sometimes seems overwhelming.

My Protestant friends point to the fact the Catechism is a bigger book than my bible is! They argue that Catholicism, when viewed on total, is very much like Old Testament Judaism…too many rules, too difficult to follow. They say Jesus came here for the express purpose of remedying that problem with the old law.

Catholicism certainly doesn’t have the “ease” of bible only Protestantism. My feelings on this almost have me worried. What say you?

Anxiously awaiting your dialogue.

Jeff
 
Catholicism is pretty simple, at heart. There are certain things we have to believe, and certain obligations we have to fulfill.

All the rest is commentary.

We have tons of Christian freedom to do what God calls us to do. Those rules and theological elaborations are there to help you, not to confuse you. If your brain is feeling tired, let them go for a while and focus on the basics. If you need deeper information about a moral difficulty or something to deepen your prayer life or an explanation of a Bible passage, you know there’s always someplace you can look. But you don’t have to look at everything.

Catholicism is not about intellectual knowledge. In fact, a lot of the intellectual things are there mostly to provide mental support for spiritual activity. You will understand this more as time goes by. Just keep going to Mass, and keep listening to God. If you spend some quiet time alone in church with nobody but Jesus, I think you will find that things feel a lot simpler.

This is, after all, a faith that has worked perfectly well for billions of illiterate peasants, babies, and the mentally challenged. It’s not rocket science unless God calls you to that side of it. And the greatest theologians have appreciated that simplicity the most.

May God bring you an abundance of Easter joy!
 
I would add to Mintaka’s very fine comments that Catholicism is complex because human beings are complex.

Do you really want a faith that says it has simple answers to all the problems and sins of humanity? A faith that sprang up in rebellion against the Church Christ himself founded?

Protestantism is largely about negatives. What they don’t believe and what they don’t want to do that Christ’s Church says they should. Their founders watered down Christ and Christianity to fit their vision of both. But God will not be watered down to fit anyone’s ideas of what he ought to be or what his Church ought to be.

I don’t say any of this with rancor or as a slam, but as simple truth. When I was a Protestant I tried very hard to fit my life into my denomination’s simplistic view of life, but reality just wouldn’t let me do it. I needed more, much more, and I found it in the Catholic Church because it has more to offer, much more.

Most Protestants were brought up in their denominations and really don’t know what the Church teaches or why it demands more of it’s adherents than does their own faith communities. They think the Church’s complexity is a hindrance when it is a great help because it can meet the needs of all humans everywhere. Because it is Christ’s one, holy, catholic (universal), and apostolic Church.
 
Good question! I have thought about this too.

I’ll try to briefly summarize the different areas you asked about - don’t want this to be longer than the Bible 😃

rules - there are lots of rules. There are rules of Canon Law, and rules of discipline. Canon Law is needed because there is an earthly side to the Church, with many many thousands of people employed, and when you consider the work the lay people do as well, it’s really no different than a major international organization. It is also a state, like a country. So rules explain to people how to do things. Most are not considered “theological”.

teachings and doctrines - really this is the same thing foir your question here, there are some important semantic differences about the infallibility of the teachings and by what means they are considered infallible. I actually think this is the easiest to explain of your questions. The Church teaches us that God’s revelation came in both oral and eventually written form. John wrote in the Bible that if everything Jesus did was written down, the world could not contain all the books (John 21:25). Consistent with this statement, and also considering the work of the Holy Spirit who Jesus gave to us to guide the Church, over time Jesus’ teachings were more fully developed - not changed. My opinion of the CCC is that many times 5 paragraphs (or more) explain one small verse, or even phrase, of the Bible. This is the development of the theology that came to us orally and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and it is the best argument as to why Sola Scriptura is only taking a minuscule part of what Jesus said.

Note also that most of the Bible contains no interpretation “officially” from the Church. We are free to read, reflect, and consider what it says. The Bible is a faith document, and there is lots for us to learn, and grow in our faith, by reading it.

sacraments - now I am not sure what your concern is with the sacraments as there are only 7. Part of the revealed Tradition that we received from Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is that creating the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit was how we would achieve our salvation with Jesus. The sacraments are an aid to that. The sacraments give us the grace we need to achieve salvation on this evil planet. We are taught that the grace of the sacraments emboldens Christ’s Body, the Church, to go out and try to achieve the level of holiness that Jesus preached via the Sermon on the Mount (we need God’s graces to love God and neighbor fully). Now the sacraments are a very holy gift that a priest (usually) offers, and it must be done EXACTLY as God wants it. If rules etc. concern you, check out Deuteronomy, Numbers, etc…God is not afraid to tell us exactly how something should be done, and in quantity, because adhering to HIS rules is one more way we show obedience, love, and accept/choose Him.

One last point about your comment on Judaism and the Old Law, and Jesus coming to remedy that. Jesus never had a problem with the Law, as many places he says “I came to fulfill scripture”. Jesus taught the OT (Luke 24:27), quotes it often in Matthew, Mark, and John. The Bible also says "Jesus opened their minds to understand the scriptures (Luke 24:45), and this is the distinction – The Pharisees etc. abides by the rules, yet committed every sin imaginable - you can see examples of pride, social injustice, greed, anger, lust, envy…they lived the life of pagans yet adhered to the rules and thought they were living a life of God. Jesus came to teach us and show that example is wrong.

Hope that helps a little - one could write 1000 pages on this topic, but maybe this gets you started in some thoughts!​

 
opdsgt said:
My Protestant friends point to the fact the Catechism is a bigger book than my bible is! They argue that Catholicism, when viewed on total, is very much like Old Testament Judaism…too many rules, too difficult to follow. They say Jesus came here for the express purpose of remedying that problem with the old law.
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Hmm… I don’t know what kind of Non-Catholic your friends are. However, if they were Lutheran they would have the small catechism, large catechism, book of concord along with other creeds and confessions

You can go to almost any web site for any faith, and find links and more links of beliefs, guidelines, doctrine, creeds, help, explanations, etc.

Maybe the only real difference is that in Catholicism there is “one” source, outside the Bible to find the answers vs. “many” sources. There is “one” opinion vs. “many” opinions

Also, just to note, my NAB Study Bible is just as “thick” as my CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) 😃
 
The reason why it is so big is we have so much imagination on how we can be disobedient that in order to defend truth the Catholic Church needs to cover it.

Or else truth doesn’t matter and the Church would be negligent.

If my daughter asked me if she could go out front and play and I say no because it is raining, then she stays.

Now think of 1000 daughters with imaginations, some asking if they can play on the roof, go out back, climb out a window, pick some fruit, play in the street, etc…
For one of those daughters it is simple and for each of them it is but to answer them all I might need to make a book.

This is the Catholic Church, full of people who have had billions of life circumstances and the Church needs to give an answer for the truth. Or it can just say, do what you want and make a Catechism of 2 pages long.

It actually is very simple once you become fully Catholic.

In Christ
Scylla
 
I don’t think it’s at all complicated- or rather it can be, but it needn’t be and works on all levels.

The Catechism isn’t a rule book. The Catechism shows that our Faith is like an orchestra and needs to be considered as a whole. If you don’t understand a teaching, it is because you have not understood it’s context. It’s a demonstration of the nexus mysteriorum. It’s a measure of orthodoxy- a reference for the faithfull. It demonstrates the level of development- the highest level of the understanding of God’s revelation and the hermeneutic of continuity.

This means that the Church doesn’t discard what has been before, but integrates it into its knowledge. This is easiest seen if one looks at the Creeds and their development~ they demonstrate a simplified history of Faith.

Revelation continues to unfold…That process is what contributes to the rich pattern of the faith.
 
Jeff;

Once you get into the Church, you will know all of the rules that apply to you - everything else is somebody else’s business, unless you end up teaching it for some reason - and in that case, you will be given the resources that you need to teach it.

Don’t worry. Right now, because you aren’t Catholic yet, it’s like looking at a stained glass window from the outside - ugly, with a lot of seemingly random black lines everywhere.

Once you get inside, and see it from the inside with the sunlight streaming through it, it will make perfect sense. 🙂
 
“The closer you get to the Easter Vigil, the more satan will plant doubts into you”.

This is what I was told by a very special friend when she noticed how I was struggling emotionaly and spiritually. I was studing so hard and so long on knowing as MUCH as I could about my new and beautiful faith, that I almost forgot to do the easiest thing of all…Pray and then be SILENT.👍

One day I went before the Blessed Sacrament and in tearful confusion, simply asked my Lord what He wanted of me. After that, a very peaceful calm came over me,I Knew from that moment on, that I was exactly where Jesus wanted me to be.🙂

My advice, study a little less and relax in the knowledge that you are totally loved and wanted and that God calls us to be faithful, not always “book learned” (that will come later throughout your life).
 
Catholicism seems a lot like Judaism because it is. Catholism is the fulfillment of Judaism. Have you ever listened to any of Rosiland Moss’s tracts on Judaism? If not, I think you might want to consider it, you would probably enjoy them a lot.
 
love4mary said:
“The closer you get to the Easter Vigil, the more satan will plant doubts into you”.

This is what I was told by a very special friend when she noticed how I was struggling emotionaly and spiritually. I was studing so hard and so long on knowing as MUCH as I could about my new and beautiful faith, that I almost forgot to do the easiest thing of all…Pray and then be SILENT.👍

One day I went before the Blessed Sacrament and in tearful confusion, simply asked my Lord what He wanted of me. After that, a very peaceful calm came over me,I Knew from that moment on, that I was exactly where Jesus wanted me to be.🙂

My advice, study a little less and relax in the knowledge that you are totally loved and wanted and that God calls us to be faithful, not always “book learned” (that will come later throughout your life).
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love4mary, that just made me tear up a little bit! If the OP hasn’t visited the Blessed Sacrament, I highly recommend it. I think of it as the prescription for every spiritual “illness” you can have…like “take two aspirin and call me in the morning”. 🙂
 
Della said:
I would add to Mintaka’s very fine comments that Catholicism is complex because human beings are complex.
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Della, I agree with your post. I also wanted to say that God is very, very complex! He is infinite, and we’re trying to understand Him with finite minds. It seems to go without saying that things would get complicated from time to time.

opdsgt, since my conversion, I have really appreciated the debth and breadth of the Catholic faith. It doesn’t fit in a tiny box. It can’t be pigeonholed any more than God can. To me, this speaks to the Truth of the the faith.
 
opdsgt said:
They argue that Catholicism, when viewed on total, is very much like Old Testament Judaism…too many rules, too difficult to follow. They say Jesus came here for the express purpose of remedying that problem with the old law.
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My question is what do they base this on? Did Jesus ever say “you Jews have too many Laws, this is wrong and I have come to correct your error and make everything simple”? No, he didn’t. The Jewish Laws were there to give the Jews a national identity, the only thing that may have been wrong was that perhaps they took too much pride in their laws and their identity. I think you are right in that we can learn from that and should understand that Catholicism is not about following rules, but at they same time we must follows Christ’s example and be obedient to them. Christ always taught us to honor and respect authority. He established the Church for a reason and gave it authority and since it is guaranteed by him to be free from error in matters of faith and moral’s we are obligated to be obedient to the Church’s judgement because it is guided by the Holy Spirit. In the interest of our spiritual development the Church also establishes certain disciplines such as fasting, it is important that these be viewed in the proper manner and that we understand their purpose, and if we do, these rules are not simply an overbearing burden but actually gain us spiritual benefits. Also, if you don’t know all these rules or you forget don’t worry too much about it, you will learn over time. Just don’t ignore them and dismiss them knowingly.
 
Hello,

What you are going through is normal. We should always question what we are doing and seek the truth.

But you have to remember that is by faith through grace that one comes to believe and follow the truth; even if you don’t fully understand it.

The word humble comes to mind. If your friends are pressuring you and you can’t answer all their questions, humbly accept their questions stating that you do not yet know the answer but that you will provide them one once you have done some research.

Many on this thread have answered your friends posing questions. If you have more, I am sure people here are more then happy to help you.

I would even go a little further and tell you that it is so much easier to surrender to God and follow him, like children obeying their parents; then it would be to try to figure all out on my own with no guidance or authority.

In any case, may the Lord be with you always!

Thanks,

Luiz
 
Cecilia,Yep, just what the Doctor ordered:thumbsup:

Instead of US trying to figure all these things out about our spiritual growth and our understandings of the faith, we forget that Jesus is waiting right there in the Tabranacle (sp…spell check button a must with me:p ), we just need to ask for His help with a humble and seeking heart. Going through our Blessed Mother is the second best way, she always leads us to Jesus and will never mislead us.👍
 
A couple thoughts here. First of all, remember that the Catechism is written in such a way as to translate into layman’s terms the teachings of the Church, which is, of course based on both Scripture and Tradition. It is a book that is meant to explain, in pretty good detail, the faith. I would expect it to be quite long. Of course, your problem is not so much the length of a book but the magnitude of the faith. There is a lot to know about the Sacraments and about how we worship the Lord. It is absolutely not as simple as saying “I believe in Jesus, therefore I am saved”.

But, setting aside the Sacraments for a moment, one might ask “why all the rules”. I’m talking about why do we abstain from meat on Good Friday or why the we are obligated to attend Mass on Holy Days of Obligation, etc? I’m sure that there are many schools of thought on this issue, but I think that it has to do with preparing our soul for obedience to God. Remember, that we Catholics do not believe that Christ just cloaks our sins, but rather that our souls are sanctified so that we can enter heaven. In other words, our souls have to be prepared for heaven. This preparation occurs throughout our lives. We are baptized, we have faith, our faith works in love, we receive Christ in the Eucharist, etc. With all of these things we receive graces from God. One other way of preparation for heaven, is the practice of obedience. If we are obedient to the Laws of the Church, we are preparing ourselves to be obedient to God. Now some will tell you these are just mans laws and rules. Not so. They are the laws of the Church that Christ gave His authority to via the Apostles. Furthermore, when it comes right down to it, Jesus gave Himself up to death out of obedience to the Father. We can expect that we also must also be completely obedient to God.
I am not saying that the Laws of the Church are just arbitrary hoops to jump through in order to be taught obedience. But rather that the Laws serve a purpose, each one of them, but the adherence to those Laws teach us the virtue of obedience.
 
opdsgt said:
I’m over halfway through RCIA now, as an unbaptized, near 40 year old guy who grew up with no religion.

I have studied the sacraments, have read the Compendium cover to cover, am working my way through the Catechism, and have studied early Church history and apologetics. I read the New Testament in a month and am almost done with the Pentateuch. I pray and fellowship with others daily.

One of the last things I’m trying to reconcile is the breadth and depth of the Church’s rules, teachings, doctrines, sacraments, obligations, etc. It sometimes seems overwhelming.

My Protestant friends point to the fact the Catechism is a bigger book than my bible is! They argue that Catholicism, when viewed on total, is very much like Old Testament Judaism…too many rules, too difficult to follow. They say Jesus came here for the express purpose of remedying that problem with the old law.

Catholicism certainly doesn’t have the “ease” of bible only Protestantism. My feelings on this almost have me worried. What say you?

Anxiously awaiting your dialogue.

Jeff
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You are Ah-MAY-zing!

Think of it this way. All the “rules” and stuff only exist for people who need them. For example, a heart on fire for God does not need to be TOLD to go to Mass every Sunday, fast with Jesus, come to confession when necessary . . . The people who need the rule are the ones who need the rule. Get it?

You don’t write a law until you have a problem.

I’ll say it again: you are amazing. Welcome home!
 
opdsgt said:
.

Catholicism certainly doesn’t have the “ease” of bible only Protestantism. My feelings on this almost have me worried. What say you?

Anxiously awaiting your dialogue.

Jeff
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Jeff,

Kudos to your vocation. My brother retired after 32 years in the same PD: San Bernardino (as a Captain). My son-in-law (just back from Iraq) is finishing the Academy to work with West Sacramento PD.

The sacraments are not difficult. I suggest you looking at the biblechristiansociety website from Alabama. He’s a former Protestant minister who does a GREAT job with Catholic apologetics! Click on the link to his 2 minute Apologetics. Everything that your non-Catholic friends might get you to see as what is wrong with the Church is shown IN SCRIPTURE to be what Catholics have always believed and taught through the Church.

“The ‘ease’ of bible only Protestantism.”

Of course, it’s easier. It’s like every PD making its own rules regarding Criminal Procedure (my background is law) and enforcing what statutes from the Penal Code they deem are in most need of enforcement.

It’s called ‘cafeteria-style’ christianity around here: interpret it according to YOUR understanding based upon whatever TRANSLATION you prefer and BANG! you’re a Christian.

It’s no accident that with the rise (from the so-called ‘Reformation’ in the 1500s) of personal interpretation (and in Luther’s case: personal rewriting of scripture) that there has been to date a plethora of sects and claims by various self-proclaimed prophets (Mohammed, Joseph Smith, EG White, C Taze Russell, Rev Moon, David Koresh, Jim Jones) that the Catholic Church got it wrong but WE got it right.

Oh well, you know the drill: investigate and look for evidence, not ‘feelings’ or claims of ‘invisible underground churches’ dating from the time of St Paul

I wish I could convince judges of my interpretation of California and the US constitutions, but, we have stare decisis and judicial review and all sorts of ‘customs’ in our common law heritage and civil law (from Spain here in California) style statutes that it is necessary to read more than just the four pages of the US constitution when trying to frame an argument for litigation or for a motion.

Good luck and God bless you

Pax Christi

Jonathan
 
opdsgt said:
I’m over halfway through RCIA now, as an unbaptized, near 40 year old guy who grew up with no
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religion.

I have studied the sacraments, have read the Compendium cover to cover, am working my way through the Catechism, and have studied early Church history and apologetics. I read the New Testament in a month and am almost done with the Pentateuch. I pray and fellowship with others daily.

One of the last things I’m trying to reconcile is the breadth and depth of the Church’s rules, teachings, doctrines, sacraments, obligations, etc. It sometimes seems overwhelming.

My Protestant friends point to the fact the Catechism is a bigger book than my bible is! They argue that Catholicism, when viewed on total, is very much like Old Testament Judaism…too many rules, too difficult to follow. They say Jesus came here for the express purpose of remedying that problem with the old law.

Catholicism certainly doesn’t have the “ease” of bible only Protestantism. My feelings on this almost have me worried. What say you?

Anxiously awaiting your dialogue.

JeffThe other option is “Christianity Lite” because every bit of Catholicism is based on the Bible and the Sacred Tradition of the early church.

My conclusion was simply that these things are more in line with the Word of God than anything outside of the church and so this is where one belongs if one intends to follow what God has laid down for us.

The n-C allegation that it is all rules is garbage (IMO) because I don’t feel that way at all. The CCC is a teaching book not a rules book. Quit looking at it as rules and soak up the grace!
Pax tecum,
 
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