One is only religious because one fears hell

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Do you try to convert them to your faith?

Isn’t a bad idea to have atheist friends as they might lead you away from your faith?
We try to support their conversion by treating them with the respect and love that they are due. You do not always have to get into philosophical debates to convince someone of the existence of God, people might notice His presence through our behaviors. Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit converts people and we are just His tools.
 
Do you try to convert them to your faith?

Isn’t a bad idea to have atheist friends as they might lead you away from your faith?
It seems to me that many religious feel, not think, that conversion is a mater similar to say, a “conversion” van or chopping a motorcycle, or modifying a car. You just get in there and tell them the truth." Yeah right. I think Jesus lived His truth and people asked him questions and of those a few recognized Him at whatever level they were able to. Do you seriously think that if Jesus showed up in a business suit or jeans and sat next to you on the subway you would straight off get who He is? Certainly if you engaged Him in conversation you might get that He was different. But when He walked the Earth, few were actually attracted to Him as a person or a preacher. Otherwise there would not have been the crucifixion, eh? But he associated mainly with sinners, one might gather as that is what we all are, I would guess you would say.

So as to your idea of avoiding atheists, as I said the ones I know are very ethical or they would not be in my circle of friends. And if you reason for a moment, you might conclude that if we all stayed away from non-Catholics, we must needs close our missionary facilities and stop other kinds of contacts as well. We’d even have to get off these forums and just be good little isolated sheep. What if you in your imperfection are someone’s only last chance? You can’t have it both ways. So are you assuming my faith is weak? What would be your test for that? Would my faith be strong by “virtue” of avoidance, or as I found in tennis, would it be strengthened by playing stronger opponents? And again, that “opponent” is no less a child of God than you or I, eh?
 
At first glance, one might respond that we would not be as good as we should be if there were no heaven and no hell.

BUT being good and avoiding sin has other consequences beyond the reward or punishment thing. Getting into an affair for example, disrupts the family and gets the spouse all in huff. Who needs all the heart ache ? Being faithful has its own rewards even if there is no eternal reward or punishment.

Also obeying the laws such as against theft or murder keeps one out of jail, and there is the sense that when one does what is right and noble, we get a feeling of being in the right place at the right time, and we derive satifaction in having done the proper thing.
 
Very very nice and very affective post man, if there were no hell or heaven there were no religions. Click on the link below if you agree

testament and will
 
***We were created to worship & love God! ***This view from believers is non-negotiable, once they have a some what matured understanding of their faith.

With this key principle of belief which we take as TRUTH, it only stands to reason that the fact we were created to worship & love God, eventually there would be those that turned to do what they are created to do, without regard for punishment or reward!

May the Lord direct your search for truth.
 
Let’s all be honest with ourselves. Would you really go to church every Sunday, go to confession, not commit adultery, etc. If there were no heaven or hell? No reward or punishment?

Keep everything about Catholicism the same just take out heaven and hell. Even though you know God exists and he has laid down rules for mankind to follow, would you really follow them? We have to admit that religious people, their main motivation is to enter heaven, but most importantly, to avoid hell. I’m not saying its bad that thats how religious people are. I’m just saying that one should recognize that deep down its all about self interest. If God tells me to not drink alcohol, he only tells me not to do it, he doesnt mention any punishments that will occur if i do drink. Would i really abstain from alcohol?We only do things that benefir us. Even if it is helping poor children. We either do it because of religious purposes or because it makes us feel good. If thats how God created us that so be it. But doesnt it sound a little disturbing that thats how we are.
You seem to think that because someone might have some personal interest in doing good then thier acts are automatically imperfect. I disagree; you can’t seperate the subjective and personal from what is objectively good. Why would it be good for one person to die for another if he had no personal interest (either the personal desire to be a good man or some eternal reward or whatever)? You would still end up with a dead man, just a different one. That isn’t good, it is simply self destruction.

Your actions are formative of your character; by choosing to act in a particular way you are choosing to be a particular type of person. If I choose to be faithful to a set of values, then I am formed to those values. By telling the truth, and avoiding lies you become an honest man.

Without this, all morality falls apart. Why do good if it isn’t formative of my character? Because its good? What does that even mean? Why should I avoid lying if I don’t care about my personal integrity? Because someone else told me it is bad to lie?

On the contrary, I think any moral code would become positively evil as soon as you remove the personal and subjective aspect. The first thing a person knows is their own existence, and the first thing they learn is that it is good to preserve it. I do what I need to to preserve my life, and that is good, because my life is good. The fact that I exist is a good thing. If I am forced to choose between preserving my life and acting in a way that is contrary to the preservation of my life there better be a good reason why I should choose to act against my self. Whether it is a question of personal character, or some reward, there has to be something to prevent my sacrifices from being self-destructive. Without the resurrection, Jesus’ death on the cross would not only be pointless, it would be positively evil. You destroy one good man for the sake of a world of sinners. There is nothing good in that.

In other words, without hope everything a man does becomes meaningless. If I have no hope, why avoid lying, gossiping, cheating, and etc.? By avoiding them I only hurt myself. If only I cheated on my tests I would have gotten a 4.0 in highschool and college.

From another perspective, the basis of Christian ethics is that what is prescribed to man by God is prescribed because it is good for man. It is not some arbitrary law that we are forced to follow. We do good because by doing good we become good. There is a distinction between living(existing), living in a good way, and living eternally in a good way. Christian morality says that there is a certain way of life that is good, and those who live a good life will live it eternally.
 
I think that you are quite confused about heaven, hell, God, and relationship with God.
I am the first one to say that if there were no God I would be one of the nastiest people around because I do not see any reasons for personal moral behaviors. I would just try to avoid getting caught.
Considering that God exists I am very thankful for all the gifts that He has given me. I understand what kind of relationship He wants with me and I like that kind of relationship very much.
Wow. Maybe this indicates why I often prefer to hang out with my atheist friends than my religious friends, except for some Buddhists and Zenners. They all have a highly developed ethic of good for it’s own sake. They arrived at thier stance through hard work and consideration. It isn’t about some future reward or avoidance of punishment, because for them it is all now.

Though I am sure that most adhering to religion serves an excellent purpose for those who find it an exercise of growing in Love of God and responsibility for partaking in Creation, there appear to be a whole lot of folks for whom the point of it all seems to have deteriorated into some kind of legalistic draconianism. The news tells me that that is dangerous. I’d rather be in the company of non believers who behave lovingly because they want to, rather than religious folks who do it from fear of some punishment in the future.
 
Wow. Maybe this indicates why I often prefer to hang out with my atheist friends than my religious friends, except for some Buddhists and Zenners. They all have a highly developed ethic of good for it’s own sake. They arrived at thier stance through hard work and consideration. It isn’t about some future reward or avoidance of punishment, because for them it is all now.

Though I am sure that most adhering to religion serves an excellent purpose for those who find it an exercise of growing in Love of God and responsibility for partaking in Creation, there appear to be a whole lot of folks for whom the point of it all seems to have deteriorated into some kind of legalistic draconianism. The news tells me that that is dangerous. I’d rather be in the company of non believers who behave lovingly because they want to, rather than religious folks who do it from fear of some punishment in the future.
Agreed. If someone acts charitably just because they follow the Bible I wouldn’t consider them a good person. A person should have the want to do good whether there is a god, creator, anything that you go to when you die. You shouldn’t need a reward to be nice to people it should be a quality of you regardless.
 
As a family lawyer myself, the way I see it, the discipline of doing things a certain way helps you transcend into spiritual realms. Anyway if everyone does certain things because of heaven and hell I feel it is very limiting in your spiritual development as a person.Being good should in itself be the reward.
 
I don’t care too much about hell. I desire to live in heaven with Him so I stay faithful to God.

If God is pretty much going to accept you no matter what then there is no point in surrendering your will to His.
 
Wow. Maybe this indicates why I often prefer to hang out with my atheist friends than my religious friends, except for some Buddhists and Zenners. They all have a highly developed ethic of good for it’s own sake. They arrived at thier stance through hard work and consideration. It isn’t about some future reward or avoidance of punishment, because for them it is all now.

Though I am sure that most adhering to religion serves an excellent purpose for those who find it an exercise of growing in Love of God and responsibility for partaking in Creation, there appear to be a whole lot of folks for whom the point of it all seems to have deteriorated into some kind of legalistic draconianism. The news tells me that that is dangerous. I’d rather be in the company of non believers who behave lovingly because they want to, rather than religious folks who do it from fear of some punishment in the future.
Lol, Buddhist try to find a way to escape suffering. The reward, then, is to escape suffering, and that is why they are moral. No human is good for goodness’s sake. Perhaps they seek after the esteem of others, or they want to please their emotions or maybe they just want to be happy. Either way, they require a motivation to not be hedonists.
 
One is** only** irreligious because one fears obligations is an equally false statement!
 
I enjoy a relationship with God and those who follow Him regardless of whether or not I’m going to Heaven. Even if God doesn’t exist, I am still happy with what I am doing because it brings me joy. Perhaps seeking joy is considered self-serving, but it is the joy of loving and helping others.
However, if there was no Heaven or Hell, I probably wouldn’t be so involved to begin with, so I’d say you have a point. In the end though, I think Christians should strive for doing good and loving not out of fear, but because the love and appreciate God and those He put on earth with us.
 
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