"One Issue Voter"

[Rence]

It depends on the Dem. Most Dems these day are large government Dems, you also have members of the GOP who are for large government. A large government requires more funding, thus more taxation. I would think that Dems are more likely to reallocate taxation than lower it at this point.

A doubling in taxation is either indicative of a low rate (2% doubling to 4%) or an insane politician (17% to 34%)

-Prophecy

Take it for what it’s worth, but sometimes I think they’re all insane

 

[Prophesy]

Take it for what it’s worth, but sometimes I think they’re all insane

There does exist the group ‘Democrats for Life’, so there will be degrees of insanity within most political systems. As much as I dislike parties like the New Democrat Party here in Canada and I generally lump them all together, it’s not too too fair on my behalf. Though I doubt I’d vote for them because of their crazy leader.


This guy. I mean how can you vote for a guy that bridges his hand like that? (joking only)

-Prophecy

 

[elts1956]

Just as poverty will never be erased, and care of the envirnonment will never be perfect, so abortion will never be erased. The Bishops are not in error to consider other life issues.

Elts, I’m sure these other issues bother you, they would bother anyone. Your priority, or one voting issue, is abortion and that’s okay for you. You have that right, and that’s how it should be. Others have their ‘one voting issue’ too. The Bishops are not in error to direct Catholics to consider all issues carefully and weigh them together. I would say that for Catholics Abortion is one of the most important, if not the most important issue, but it’s not the only issue.

I vote according to what is proposed by a candidate in regard to the hierarchies of evil and good. Intrinsic evils such as abortion outweigh any evil which can be of prudential judgement, ie. there can be as many different “opinions” on these as there are Catholics. Intrinsic evils such as abortion and the other life issues on the level of abortion, such as euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research etc. can NEVER NEVER be cast aside and made level with the other issues. An Intrinsic evil may never, never be performed. Those who vote for pro abort pols are possibly guilty of remote support and sin, depending upon their mental faculties.

 

[Newbie2]

Interesting story:

In Michigan, Right to Life endorsed the candidate that came in third in the primary (Cox). The second place finisher is a bit peeved that he didn’t get their endorsement, or at least a share of their endorsement.

“(Michigan Right to Life PAC chairman) said the endorsement was based on how candidates came across in interviews with the 20-member PAC board. “They decided to endorse Cox who they felt had the stronger presentation,” (he) said.”

From The Detroit News: detnews.com/article/20100814/POLITICS02/8140340/1022/Hoekstra-blames-primary-loss-on-Right-to-Life-of-Michigan#ixzz0wZwAkY00

Interesting that they endorsed a candidate who had a very public extra-marital affair, over another squeaky-clean pro-lifer. As it turns out, they wasted their endorsement (and lots of money) on a third place finisher.

Seems like at least in Michigan, the Right to Life PAC is mixing politics with principle. At the very least, I’d have expected a shared endorsement, if they were going solely on their Pro-life credentials.

 

[Newbie2]

I’m always surprised that people are bothered by ‘one issue voting’. -Prophecy

I think it’s not necessarily a matter of someone being bothered by the concept, but being told that one must vote in such a manner or be guilty of being a “bad” Catholic, be in mortal sin, etc, as some might suggest i.e. that the Church demands that we be “one-issue voters”.

 

[estesbob]

I vote according to what is proposed by a candidate in regard to the hierarchies of evil and good. Intrinsic evils such as abortion outweigh any evil which can be of prudential judgement, ie. there can be as many different “opinions” on these as there are Catholics. Intrinsic evils such as abortion and the other life issues on the level of abortion, such as euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research etc. can NEVER NEVER be cast aside and made level with the other issues. An Intrinsic evil may never, never be performed. Those who vote for pro abort pols are possibly guilty of remote support and sin, depending upon their mental faculties.

Which begs the question as to why a Catholic would even need the Church to tell them they can’t vote for somebody who supports abortion on demand.
.

 

[estesbob]

Just as poverty will never be erased, and care of the envirnonment will never be perfect, so abortion will never be erased. The Bishops are not in error to consider other life issues.

And those issues are?

 

[elts1956]

Which begs the question as to why a Catholic would even need the Church to tell them they can’t vote for somebody who supports abortion on demand.
.

Stiff necked? Ignorant? Lazy? Party loyalty? Got me!!!

 

[elts1956]

Which begs the question as to why a Catholic would even need the Church to tell them they can’t vote for somebody who supports abortion on demand.
.

One thing that is apparent is that when a Catholic proclaims they are not a single issue voter they are really saying is " I vote Democrat"

You got that right!! It also means they aren’t really looking at the weightier issues such as abortion, euthanasia etc. Party mentality. I wonder how many heating and electric bills have been paid by the anointed one.

 

[elts1956]

And so you should. I never said you shouldn’t, but abortion is not the beginning and the end of a vote, and that all issues need to be considered as well. I didn’t even say abortion was the least important, because it’s not. Rather, all issues need to be considered as well. If you want to base your vote on abortion, I have no problem with that. You have the right to vote as your conscience dictates. Mine tells me that there is more to the story than just abortion. The Church doesn’t tell us that voting for a pro-choice candidate will separate us from the Church.

The further one gets from the teachings of the Church, the further one separates oneself from the Church. The five life issues were at the top of the Bishop’s list to be defeated in the last POTUS election. Now I grant the USCCB document came across as muddled. It was up to us to discern what was supposed to be said. I will repeat, repeat, repeat myself to you, all INTRINSIC evils are to be OPPOSED. There were five upheld by the Dem. platform in 2008. ABORTION, EUTHANASIA, EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH, HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE, CLONING. ALL OTHER issues were of secondary importance. You can say these secondary issues are just as important TO YOU as the Intrinsic evils listed, but that does not mean you are saying what is TRUTH.

For one to use one’s conscience to over ride what the Magisterium of the Church teaches is the height of arrogance. This use of “my conscience tells me so”, became prominent after Vatican II when groups of modernist theologians, both lay and clergy, set out to CHANGE and modernize the Catholic Church. So many have been caught in their net and their teachings have been so subtly insinuated into church teachings, it is difficult to discern what is TRUTH and what is not. The “whatever you want, or think bud” of the sixties is still with us, but that does not make it Church teaching.

A TRUTH IS STILL A TRUTH EVEN IF NO ONE BELIEVES IT
A LIE IS STILL A LIE EVEN IF EVERYONE BELIEVES IT

 

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[StTommyMore]

To me, it did not look specific. Sorry. No where did it say, “you can’t vote this way” or “you have to vote that way”.

Proportionate reasons allowing a Catholic to vote for Obama depends on the voter and what is important to them.

I’m sure every Catholic is not going to ask the Magesterium for whom they should vote. I know I don’t.

If the voter’s conscience is properly formed, they shouldn’t have to ask. No Catholic with a properly formed Conscience voted for Obama.

 

[estesbob]

If the voter’s conscience is properly formed, they shouldn’t have to ask. No Catholic with a properly formed Conscience voted for Obama.

As I’ve said before the sad fact is for those Catholics who voted for Obama there is absolutely nothing the Church could of said that would’ve dissuaded them from doing so .One simply could not read the teachings of the church and come to the conclusion a Catholic could, in good conscience ,support a man who supports unrestricted taxpayer-funded abortions on demand. If the Pope had issued an edict saying a Catholic cannot vote for Obama they would have claimed that the Pope was not talking about Barack Obama rather he was talking about some other Obama.

The most honest people on the Obama side of the debate are those Catholics who voted for Obama and acknowledge the fact they were disobeying the Church-that in their mind the church is wrong and there is no reason they had to follow her teachings. They do far less harm than those who voted for Obama and try to convince everybody else that it was proper for Catholic to do so.

 

[Christopher68]

I will repeat, repeat, repeat myself to you, all INTRINSIC evils are to be OPPOSED. There were five upheld by the Dem. platform in 2008. ABORTION, EUTHANASIA, EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH, HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE, CLONING. ALL OTHER issues were of secondary importance.

So a politician can oppose the issues mentioned above, and yet be responsible for disastrous foreign policy and economic policy and throw the country into a near depression - and that’s preferable because he’s in-line with the ‘most important’ issues??

That is ‘ivory tower’ thinking that doesn’t reflect real world situations. Someone who’s lost his job and his health insurance is going to less concerned with embryonic stem cell research than he is in actually finding a job and being able to support himself and his family.

 

[Newbie2]

If the voter’s conscience is properly formed, they shouldn’t have to ask. No Catholic with a properly formed Conscience voted for Obama.

Is that the same as saying that the Church has examined Obama’s policies and deemed that Catholics cannot vote for him, conscience be damned?

 

[estesbob]

Is that the same as saying that the Church has examined Obama’s policies and deemed that Catholics cannot vote for him, conscience be damned?

Not unless one believes in the primacy of conscience fallacy.

 

[Elizabeth502]

If the voter’s conscience is properly formed, they shouldn’t have to ask. No Catholic with a properly formed Conscience voted for Obama.

I hate to burst your bubble, but an awful lot of Catholic priests in good standing with the Church, with parishes, and participating in the pro-life movement, voted for Obama. Are you saying that you know for a fact that all of them do not have “properly formed consciences”? They are more educated in canon law, in social justice, and in moral theology than anyone on this thread. It would seem to me that you would have no way of knowing exactly how their consciences were formed and the reasons for their choices. What makes your opinion more authoritative than theirs?

 

[StTommyMore]

I hate to burst your bubble, but an awful lot of Catholic priests in good standing with the Church, with parishes, and participating in the pro-life movement, voted for Obama. Are you saying that you know for a fact that all of them do not have “properly formed consciences”? They are more educated in canon law, in social justice, and in moral theology than anyone on this thread. It would seem to me that you would have no way of knowing exactly how their consciences were formed and the reasons for their choices. What makes your opinion more authoritative than theirs?

Anyone, regardless of whether or not they have received Holy Orders, who voted for Obama did not have a properly formed conscience. Period.

 

[Newbie2]

Not unless one believes in the primacy of conscience fallacy.

Is one is allowed to make a moral decision against their properly formed conscience?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Anyone, regardless of whether or not they have received Holy Orders, who voted for Obama did not have a properly formed conscience. Period.

Again, you’re simply asserting your opinion without answering the question as to how you or anyone would know how anyone else’s conscience was formed unless they told you how they arrived at their decision.