"One Issue Voter"

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I find it interesting that this thread seems to continuously jump back to voting for president, and doesn’t make much mention about voting for other representatives or public offices.

Personally, I consider very different issues when I am deciding who I want as my president than when I am deciding who I want representing me in the Senate. The president is a mere figurehead, he is our foreign representative and our commander in times of war. I care much more that he believes in supporting the Constitution and keeping our country in peace than about his opinions on euthanasia and stem cell research. I don’t worry so much if my president is pro-life or pro-choice, or whether he supports gay marriage or not - because the president is not the person who makes the law.
On his third day in office Obama reversed the mexico City policy freeing up US funds to pay for forced sterlizations and abortions overseas. He has thus far appointed two po-abortion judges to the USSC-the court that imposed Roe on the country-NOT our elected representatives.
Conversely, I would not be able to put my support behind a congressman who did not support my Catholic beliefs, because he is the one who will be voting in my stead on exceedingly important pieces of legislation. The president may have veto power, but nothing that cannot be overridden by a majority of the Senate. My representative is meant to be just that, and represent my opinion and vote accordingly - a job I believe to be just as important, if not more so, than the job of the president.
Both are important.
 
Let’s see if I have the situation sized up:– Atheists can vote for one of their own to get atheism advanced;

– homosexuals can vote for one of their own to get homosexuality advanced;

– feminazis can vote for one of their own to get abortion advanced;

– secularists can vote for one of their own to get secularism advanced;

– relativists can vote for one of their own to get relativism advanced;

– minorities can vote for one of their own to get reparations advanced;

– socialists can vote for one of their own to get socialism advanced;

– communists can vote for one of their own to get communism advanced;

– Muslims can vote for one of their own to get sharia law advanced;

– ___________ [fill in] can vote for one of their own to get ____________ [fill in] advanced;

but for some reason, Catholics cannot vote for one of their own in order to get a single one of their social justice causes advanced; and they are condemned for being “one-issue” voters. Howcummzit?
 
Not to mention that the “one issue voter” charge has to do with abortion. If Catholics chose a more “society friendly” (Our society, anyway) one issue, our choice would be taken over by the mainstream and we’d not be acknowledged as having fought for something good.

Goes to show, methinks, that we’re on the right track, as far as our choices of social issues to address. 👍 After all, we’re a counter-cultural movement. 😉
 
**Attention, world !!!
**
Today is primary day here in Arizona, and I’m going to vote one issue, and one issue only. Make my day by trying to stop me.
 
I think that in addition to considering abortion, the practical realities have to also be considered. It’s not only about who believes what, but who is likely to actually do the least damage: that includes not just moral stances but ever policy/issue that can impact abortion rates (social, economic, public health, legislative, foreign policy etc).

People are free to disagree, but in my mind, abortion cannot be simply taken as an isolated issue because many things contribute to and exacerbate the practice. I don’t see how there can be one issue voting if people really think about abortion and its many causes and effects.
 
I think that in addition to considering abortion, the practical realities have to also be considered. It’s not only about who believes what, but who is likely to actually do the least damage: that includes not just moral stances but ever policy/issue that can impact abortion rates (social, economic, public health, legislative, foreign policy etc).

People are free to disagree, but in my mind, abortion cannot be simply taken as an isolated issue because many things contribute to and exacerbate the practice. I don’t see how there can be one issue voting if people really think about abortion and its many causes and effects.
As soon as you get atheists, homosexuals, feminazis, secularists, relativists, minorities, socialists, communists, Muslims, and ___________ [fill in] to stop being one-issue voters, you might have a point. But then only might, for your argument makes about as much sense as voting in a member of the KKK to reduce racism.
 
As soon as you get atheists, homosexuals, feminazis, secularists, relativists, minorities, socialists, communists, Muslims, and ___________ [fill in] to stop being one-issue voters, you might have a point. But then only might, for your argument makes about as much sense as voting in a member of the KKK to reduce racism.
You don’t have to be KKK to be racist but that’s besides the point.

I am hard put to find ANY issue in modern life that can stand by itself - every issue is linked to another, by cause or effect. There is no such thing as one issue voting.

If I vote for candidate B (as opposed to his opponent A) only on the basis of abortion and he wins and nothing changes with regard to abortion statistics, then I have achieved nothing by voting thus. If however, he is incompetent at his job and had I failed to consider his abilities before voting, then I have also enabled mismanagement of the economy, education, health, financial stability etc of my community - all of which directly or tangentially impact abortion statistics.

There is no such thing as one issue voting - whether I know it or not, my vote impacts multiple issues - even if it is simply based on a single thing that someone professes.
 
I’m not “trying to justify” anyone or anything. However, just for your information, I don’t take commands from CAF posters, so you can stop issuing them to me.

What I am doing, and will continue to do, is to correct wrong theology when it’s incorrectly stated as absolute by random CAF posters. (Vs. what is stated by those who have the credentials to state it, and have done so publicly. Hence, my earlier reference to the VP for Moral Theology.)
Unfortunately many catholics stop enquiring as to what is right conscience at the USCCB document concerning voting. This document is about as clear as a white out in Minnisota. (love that cause I made it up) One cannot stop with what 2/3rds of the “bishops” are saying regarding forming a Catholic conscience, as I would say, my opinion, they support the liberal’s agenda, and just falling short of directly castigating the sin of abortion by staying silent when it comes to voting Dem. or voting period.

A result of after Vatican II when LIBERAL theologians, lay and clergy, stormed the Vatican and thought they were set free to set their own theological agenda. The result is chaos and a weakening of the Church and its teachings. I am NOT saying Vatican II per se CAUSED the destruction, but what the dissident clergy and lay theologian wanted to insert as Church teaching. Can you imagine, after 2000 years of dogmatic teaching, they decided that what was taught before was wrong? They wanted to OPEN up the Church to let the laity make decisions about theology. They did and now most Catholic dioceses and parishes are more Protestant than true Catholic. How many dissident Protestant Churches do we have. I say dissident even among themseves. There is no core belief to hold them together. Our Catholic Church is still together because the Vatican refuses to give in to the new theology.

May God have mercy on those who are trying to destroy our Church.
 
“Defense of the unborn child is a demand of social justice. There is no ‘social justice’ if the youngest and weakest among us can be legally killed.” -Archbishop Chaput

Eric

voiceofsaints.blogspot.com/
Code:
     - Daily reflections on life by those who lived closest with Christ
Enjoy!🙂
 
I’m not “trying to justify” anyone or anything. However, just for your information, I don’t take commands from CAF posters, so you can stop issuing them to me.

What I am doing, and will continue to do, is to correct wrong theology when it’s incorrectly stated as absolute by random CAF posters. (Vs. what is stated by those who have the credentials to state it, and have done so publicly. Hence, my earlier reference to the VP for Moral Theology.)
“Defense of the unborn child is a demand of social justice. There is no ‘social justice’ if the youngest and weakest among us can be legally killed.” -Archbishop Chaput

Eric

voiceofsaints.blogspot.com/
Code:
     - Daily reflections on life by those who lived closest with Christ
Enjoy!🙂
👍👍👍👍
 
…I am hard put to find ANY issue in modern life that can stand by itself - every issue is linked to another, by cause or effect. …
If you take an It’s-A-Wonderful-Life* view, I see your point.
*[The story of a man who got his wish that he had never been born and saw the consequences.]
If I vote for candidate B (as opposed to his opponent A) only on the basis of abortion and he wins and nothing changes with regard to abortion statistics, then I have achieved nothing by voting thus.
Wrong. Since they did not change, by definition, they didn’t go up.

The idea that women will be wealthier with abortion is false; are women any better off now than before Roe? Therefore, solving other social problems first in the hopes that doing so would reduce abortions, is a pipe dream.
If however, he is incompetent at his job and had I failed to consider his abilities before voting, then I have also enabled mismanagement of the economy, education, health, financial stability etc of my community - all of which directly or tangentially impact abortion statistics.
A candidate who does not respect human life in its most innocent form cannot be qualified to serve the public’s interests in anything else. Besides, I personally don’t think the government should be managing these endeavors in the first place.
There is no such thing as one issue voting - whether I know it or not, my vote impacts multiple issues - even if it is simply based on a single thing that someone professes.
Does that go for the list I posted as well as Catholics?
 
Unfortunately many catholics stop enquiring as to what is right conscience at the USCCB document concerning voting. This document is about as clear as a white out in Minnisota.
😛

Whenever I read one of their documents, I get the feeling they wrote it for each other and not the laity.
A result of after Vatican II when LIBERAL theologians, lay and clergy, stormed the Vatican and thought they were set free to set their own theological agenda.
A sorta do-it-yourself Catholicism?
The result is chaos and a weakening of the Church and its teachings. …
“Results since the (Vatican II) Council, seem to be in cruel contrast to the expectations of all, beginning with those of John XXIII and Paul VI. … The Popes and the Council Fathers were expecting a new Catholic unity, and instead one has encountered a dissension that – to use the words of Paul VI – seems to have gone from self-criticism to self-destruction. A new enthusiasm was expected, but too often there has been boredom and discouragement instead. A new leap forward was expected, but instead we find ourselves facing a process of progressive decadence. … It must be clearly stated that a real reform of the Church presupposes an unequivocal turning away from the erroneous paths that led to indisputably negative consequences.” – Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
 
When it’s a clear choice between someone who is likely to influence abortion law or policy and we have the choice between a pro-lifer and a pro-abort, sure, it’s the most important issue.

But that all falls apart when you have two choices to vote for, and their both “pro-choice”.
I recall when the gipper was elected…oh goody we exclaimed…now we will have a president with us ,down here in cold January proclaiming his support for our right to life stand!..no way…he spoke to us from a warm fireside spot in the white house ,he words echoing from a loudspeaker…he never and to my knowledge,no so called ‘pro’life’ president has ever made a live appearance to us shivering in the cold…so much for trusting candidates etc…
 
I recall when the gipper was elected…oh goody we exclaimed…now we will have a president with us ,down here in cold January proclaiming his support for our right to life stand!..no way…he spoke to us from a warm fireside spot in the white house ,he words echoing from a loudspeaker…he never and to my knowledge,no so called ‘pro’life’ president has ever made a live appearance to us shivering in the cold…so much for trusting candidates etc…
And shortly thereafter implemented the Mexico City policy which stopped US funding of overseas abortions and forced sterilizations. By contrast the day after the March for Life last year Obama rescinded the Mexico City policy. Elections matter
 
Newbie2,

Bob’s comments seem rather circular in nature, so I’m not sure you’re going to get anything vastly different from him in subsequent posts.

Bob is also assuming that government is a benevolent, high-performance organization, and that when a candidate proclaims that they are pro-life, that once they get into they office they will achieve pro-life goals. I don’t think reality bears this out in any way. From my post number 215 from this thread:

“…time after time government has been an abject failure at whatever it tries to accomplish. They turn small problems into big problems. Oftentimes their government ‘solution’ ends up costing exponentially more than anticipated, makes the existing problem worse, and creates new and unintended problems as well. Those who rabidly want government to step in to combat abortion should probably think more deeply about the reality of government. A government-led war on abortion would have the same success as the governments war on drugs, which has been an abject failure. However, I am fully aware that the emotional nature of the issue often blinds people to the unfortunate reality of government.”

So what happens if a candidate who proclaims to be pro-life (for the sake of argument, let’s say the candidate was endorsed by Bob) but when they actually get into office they actually make ‘life’ issues worse? Are the voters who were ‘duped’ by the candidates rhetoric culpable for making the problem worse? Would Bob hold himself responsible?
The goal of pro-lifers (at least this pro-lifer) is not that the gov’t declare war on abortion. The goal is that the fed gov’t get the heck out of it. Roe is a gross over-stepping of authority. This issue should be decided in the states. That way, coastal state residents can have their abortions and fly-over states can disallow them. Sure, people will cross borders to get abortions, but at least I could choose to live in a state where my taxes aren’t paying for them.

The battle belongs in the states. Which, btw, is true for most of the stuff the pols are arguing about. I’m sure you agree from what you’ve said about the incompetence of the fed gov’t.
 
I find it interesting that this thread seems to continuously jump back to voting for president, and doesn’t make much mention about voting for other representatives or public offices.

Personally, I consider very different issues when I am deciding who I want as my president than when I am deciding who I want representing me in the Senate. The president is a mere figurehead, he is our foreign representative and our commander in times of war. I care much more that he believes in supporting the Constitution and keeping our country in peace than about his opinions on euthanasia and stem cell research. I don’t worry so much if my president is pro-life or pro-choice, or whether he supports gay marriage or not - because the president is not the person who makes the law.

Conversely, I would not be able to put my support behind a congressman who did not support my Catholic beliefs, because he is the one who will be voting in my stead on exceedingly important pieces of legislation. The president may have veto power, but nothing that cannot be overridden by a majority of the Senate. My representative is meant to be just that, and represent my opinion and vote accordingly - a job I believe to be just as important, if not more so, than the job of the president.
If only this were true. Unfortunately the pres has much more power today than originally foreseen. For instance, the pres nominates justices to the supreme court. and those nine black robes rule by fiat. People say Bush didn’t do anything to curtail abortion–not true. He appoint two pro-life justices. Dear Leader Chairman Maobama has appointed two baby-killer justices. The senate is supposed to be a check on the pres but hardly ever does more than rubber-stamp the pres’s nomination.

More examples. Military abortions overseas: Bush no, Obama yes.

Foreign aid for abortions: Bush no, Obama yes.

UN funding for abortions: Bush no, Obama yes.

Condemnation of China over enforcing one-child-policy with involuntary abortions: Bush yes, Obama no.

Plus the pres has significant sway over congress’s agenda. Especially during periods (like the last two years) of one-party rule.
 
The days of Roe vs. Wade are numbered. Roe vs. Wade is not worth the paper that it is written on. The decision of the Supreme Court violates natural law. The legal veil that covers abortion was mistakenly recognized by the Supreme Court, and the decision will be overturned. The reason is simple. The Constitution and American history guarantee equal dignity to all people. The names differ, but at various times in our history people were deprived of their rights. The Supreme Court gave legal cover to these acts of violence; however, the Supreme Court always reversed itself. The most famous case that comes to mind is the Dred Scott decision, the slaveholder’s right to property. There is no precedent on abortion in the law. However, that is not unusual. The Supreme Court has reversed itself many times, especially when new evidence is brought forth that someone’s rights, not previously recognized, were violated.

An unjust law is no law at all. It is not worth the paper it is written on. If the law violates divine law or natural law, the man-made law is invalid. No one needs to obey an invalid law; in fact, you have a moral obligation to oppose it. That is why jury members have the right to judge the law, not just the facts. By a process called jury nullification jury members can refuse to uphold an unjust law.

Second, **we never get everything that we want when we elect a candidate, even if we voted for him. ** When you go to the grocery store you vote with your dollars and you get exactly what you want.

The Supreme Court has NO jurisdiction over abortion because abortion is about divine law. Roe versus Wade is not worth the paper that it is written on. An unjust law is no law at all. The emperor has no clothes.
 
… By a process called jury nullification jury members can refuse to uphold an unjust law.
I knew this when I was on a jury once, but the judge never explained it. I guess they don’t want you judging the law.

The Supreme Court has NO jurisdiction over abortion because abortion is about divine law. …
Has there ever been a case in which the Court said it had no jurisdiction?
 
I knew this when I was on a jury once, but the judge never explained it. I guess they don’t want you judging the law.

QUOTE]

Jury Nullification

Jury nullification is when a jury acquits a person of a crime, even though it is clear he committed the crime. Juries have the right to evaluate both the facts and the law in a court case. Jury nullification does not change the law. Jurors just refuse to apply the law in a particular case. Unfortunately, the courts do not agree with my thesis. Today the courts say that juries merely have the right to judge the facts. Only the judge has the right to interpret the law (Hoffman, Smith and Willis). I contend that this trend is contrary to the intent of the Founding Fathers.

Today we live in an age of judicial activism, or as some have called it, judicial tyranny. Thomas Jefferson wrote, “The germ of dissolution of our federal government is in the constitution of the federal judiciary…working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief, over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall be usurped” (Bergh 331-332). Judicial activism is contrary to the intent of the Founding Fathers. Therefore, I support the concept of jury nullification. This view holds that the trial jury has more power than Congress, the President, or even the Supreme Court. “This is because it (the trial jury) has the final veto power over all acts of the legislature that may come to be called laws” (Jurors’ Handbook). Jurors’ rights not only include an assessment of the facts, but an evaluation of the law itself.

Jurors have the right to judge both the facts and the law. The Supreme Court conducted a jury trial in the Case of the State of Georgia vs. Brailsford in 1794. Justice John Jay instructed the jury: “On questions of fact, it is the province of the jury; on questions of law, it is the province of the court to decide. But it must be observed that by the same law, which recognizes the reasonable distribution of jurisdiction, you have nevertheless a right to take upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy.”

There is a struggle between those who believe in juror activism and those who believe in judicial activism. The government does not like its laws vetoed by a jury. The courts seek to limit the power of juries in various ways. The jury selection process can be engineered to disqualify people who understand what jury nullification is all about. A couple of especially hard questions for those who understand and appreciate the political role of the jury are, “Will you follow the law as given, even if you disagree with it?” and/or “Have you read any material on the topic of jury nullification?”

Many believe that cultivating jury nullification is a mistake. “Unlike legislators or electors, jurors have no opportunity to investigate or research the merits of legislation” (King). “Some legal scholars, judges and business lawyers say that reining in juries is a necessity in an overloaded legal system. Others argue that juries must be controlled to limit excesses, and curb prejudices like hostility to big corporations” (Galberson).

**The ultimate purpose of jury nullification is to reign in the abusive power of the judiciary. **Therefore, I do not want our judicial system run exclusively by lawyers and judges, and I do not want to limit the role of juries. I believe that the eroding role of juries is contrary to the intent of the Founding Fathers. Juries have the right to evaluate both the facts and the law in a court case.
 
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