One Mad Mom vs Game of Thrones

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StudentMI said:
Where did I say he’d never seen the show?
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You said:
StudentMI said:
I’ll trust my priest over you, my friend. I asked him if the series was pornographic, both books and TV series. He told me, after I described it, that they were not. And as a Catholic, I trust priests over random laity.

God bless.
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Since you mentioned that he told you “after I described it,” I took that to mean that he was otherwise unfamiliar with the series and you had to explain it to him in order for him to give his advice. Perhaps I misunderstood.
 
Before discussing the three stages of the mainstreaming of pornography, Sister Helen Burns has this to say about violence:

"I would just like to say that I watched a few episodes of GOT and was utterly, utterly horrified by the violence. Exploding human heads? There was a time when the camera (on TV or film–except for campy horror films) would look away when someone got shot or hurt. That final moment was not depicted, only its prelude and aftermath. (See also “13 Reasons Why” where the camera shows a full-on “perfect, poetic suicide” and never, ever looks away.) In the past, even horror films that weren’t campy and strove to shock, just didn’t have the realistic prosthetics, FX and ultraHD that we have today. All the more need to be delicate, discerning and discreet.

The egregious, graphic desecration of the human body–the sacred image of God–in visual storytelling today is becoming the norm."
 
Joe_5859 said:
You said:

Since you mentioned that he told you “after I described it,” I took that to mean that he was otherwise unfamiliar with the series and you had to explain it to him in order for him to give his advice. Perhaps I misunderstood.
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Oh yeah I did. Sorry. I was at work and on break. He has seen a couple episodes I think he said but didn’t when I asked him. My bad.
 
JimG said:
Before discussing the three stages of the mainstreaming of pornography, Sister Helen Burns has this to say about violence:

"I would just like to say that I watched a few episodes of GOT and was utterly, utterly horrified by the violence. Exploding human heads? There was a time when the camera (on TV or film–except for campy horror films) would look away when someone got shot or hurt. That final moment was not depicted, only its prelude and aftermath. (See also “13 Reasons Why” where the camera shows a full-on “perfect, poetic suicide” and never, ever looks away.) In the past, even horror films that weren’t campy and strove to shock, just didn’t have the realistic prosthetics, FX and ultraHD that we have today. All the more need to be delicate, discerning and discreet.

The egregious, graphic desecration of the human body–the sacred image of God–in visual storytelling today is becoming the norm."
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I actually agree with that to an extent. Though St JPII did say that art can portray the darker side of human nature without promoting it, I do agree the show unfortunately used too much violence as a means of action and suspense. I am more of a book fan than show fan, and in the books the sexual elements and violence are handled entirely differently.

Especially in the case of violence. I can’t for the life of me think of one instance where the books showed violent acts as good or exploited them for the sake of action. They really give a vivid picture of the horror of war on every side. Perhaps unsurprisingly since Martin was a conscientious objector during Vietnam. SPOILERS There is a scene after the battle of Yunkai or Astapor, they don’t show the sacking of the city, only the aftermath through the eyes of a character. And I remember it was the most disturbing thing in the books, almost turned my stomach. The characters were basically shell shocked and just walking around in a daze. SPOILERS
 
I don’t watch the show but I have read all of the books and it and it shattered a lot of my previous conceptions regarding sex scenes. I’m hard pressed to call the majority of the sex in the books “gratuitous” when I feel like I’ve learned something about the characters when the scene is over. They are a very rough read and many of the characters are severely flawed people. But there are a few bright spots to root for and characters do change over time.

Many of the sex scenes are not titillating at all. In fact, they can make the reader very uncomfortable because there is often something about the sex that is very flawed. GRRM has a way of describing it in the most unappealing language possible. It’s often very coarse and raw. One of the characters is basically a sex addict and is constantly going to prostitutes. As the book goes on you can see him going through phases of happily objectifying women to mistaking his relationship with a live-in prostitute for love to becoming absolutely disgusted with himself because of his addiction. Two other characters are often having sex with each other and the author uses that as an opportunity to display the difference in their character development. Both start the series as pretty awful people but as the story goes on, one is becoming increasingly mentally unstable while the other is gradually becoming more sympathetic. Because their time together is often spent getting it on, the vulnerability of their situation really brings out the opposing aspects of their development. A terrifying barbaric tribal lord is shown to have a considerate side on his wedding night (NOT shown in the TV show unfortunately…). Etc…

TLDR: If I actually wanted to read something titillating, the ASOIAF books would not even be on my radar. Not when there’s a million other actual romance novels full of sex for the sake of having sex.
 
This should be quoted again and again and again
2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials
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Any amount of trying to explain it away does not change what the Catechism says.🤷
 
Patavium said:
This should be quoted again and again and again

Any amount of trying to explain it away does not change what the Catechism says.🤷
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Vatican film list. Decentfilms.com. The USCCB film reviews. Lack of any condemnation by the Vatican about any of the former, especially the first.

As a priest I knew once said ‘don’t deify the Catechism.’
 
StudentMI said:
Yes, that’s what I’m saying. :rolleyes:

Done with this thread. Have at it, guys.
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Why don’t you tell us what do you mean by don’t deify the catechism?

Are you saying that the catechism is wrong on some areas? can be safely ignored? etc…? 🤷
 
Padres1969 said:
Probably pretty good these days. Doctor Who’s ratings are down after years of Moffat. Thankfully he’s moving on. And at least Capaldi got some decent material to work with out of his final year.
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Not everyone is a Moffat fan - I get that - but he has given us some pretty awesome episodes. I also like his “fairy tale / fantastical / epic” approach to Who…I felt Davies made it too hard sci fi sometimes. Overall, I have thoroughly enjoyed Capaldi’s run. Missy is also my favorite Master, hands down.
 
JimG said:
One Mad Mom responds to critics:

Game of Rationalizations
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And by “critics”, I think you mean many people on this thread. 😛 She seemed to be responding to several specific posts here. She admitted to following the page hits back to forums where her blog was linked from and coming across one that had pages and pages of comments (that would be us :p).

She sort of doubled-down on the link between porn hub’s reduced traffic and the GoT premiere. I thought that was kind of unfortunate. It’s very much unnecessary to her larger point, and the standard rule of correlation does not imply causation applies. Better to admit when someone makes a good point and then seek to shore up your stronger points.

Some of her other points responding to duration and frequency are correct, though. How often it appears does not have any bearing on the content of the scenes in question. Of course, that doesn’t prove that GoT is porn either. Such points are mostly non-sequiturs.

I’m still trying to figure out why I’m still following this thread. :o I don’t really have a vested interest in the show either way. I guess I’m just generally interested in things that are pop culture phenomena.
 
Joe_5859 said:
And by “critics”, I think you mean many people on this thread. 😛 She seemed to be responding to several specific posts here. She admitted to following the page hits back to forums where her blog was linked from and coming across one that had pages and pages of comments (that would be us :p).

S****he sort of doubled-down on the link between porn hub’s reduced traffic and the GoT premiere. I thought that was kind of unfortunate. It’s very much unnecessary to her larger point, and the standard rule of correlation does not imply causation applies. Better to admit when someone makes a good point and then seek to shore up your stronger points.

Some of her other points responding to duration and frequency are correct, though. How often it appears does not have any bearing on the content of the scenes in question. Of course, that doesn’t prove that GoT is porn either. Such points are mostly non-sequiturs.

I’m still trying to figure out why I’m still following this thread. :o I don’t really have a vested interest in the show either way. I guess I’m just generally interested in things that are pop culture phenomena.
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Indeed it kind of undermines her entire argument. Particularly when there’s ample evidence PornHub’s traffic drops slightly whenever any large event is occurring. Unless she’s trying to make a point that the Super Bowl or shows with no nudity (like the GOT premier) are somehow porn? :whacky:
 
In the first season yes but lately it’s been not so much. First season were very out there though.
 
Padres1969 said:
Indeed it kind of undermines her entire argument. Particularly when there’s ample evidence PornHub’s traffic drops slightly whenever any large event is occurring. Unless she’s trying to make a point that the Super Bowl or shows with no nudity (like the GOT premier) are somehow porn? :whacky:
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The blogger sounded deranged in the first post, like John Nash I’ve-found-all-the-links-and-cracked-the-conspiracy crazy. The second post was more the ramblings of someone who had been stewing in said conspiracy for a number of years.

You can debate the decency of GOT, but this blogger doesn’t have the first idea how to do so, or arguably, even a grip on reality.
 
At the end of the day, the premise of the argument is just silly.
Does Game of Thrones feature inappropriate scenes that are pornographic in nature? Perhaps. It definitely features inappropriate scenes of nudity that are best skipped over. Are these “pornographic scenes” central to the show? Not at all. As has been pointed out in this thread, such scenes are not found in every episode, and when they are present, they’re a small percentage of the episode screen time.
I fully agree that some scenes crossed the line and were immoral. But is it reasonable to assume that people are watching primarily for that reason? Why would you put aside “pornhub” to dedicate 60 hours of your life to a show for the odd sexual scene here and there? That makes no sense to me. You can get your “fix” much easier watching real porn…obviously people are watching the show for other reasons.
 
twf said:
At the end of the day, the premise of the argument is just silly.
Does Game of Thrones feature inappropriate scenes that are pornographic in nature? Perhaps. It definitely features inappropriate scenes of nudity that are best skipped over. Are these “pornographic scenes” central to the show? Not at all. As has been pointed out in this thread, such scenes are not found in every episode, and when they are present, they’re a small percentage of the episode screen time.
I fully agree that some scenes crossed the line and were immoral. But is it reasonable to assume that people are watching primarily for that reason? Why would you put aside “pornhub” to dedicate 60 hours of your life to a show for the odd sexual scene here and there? That makes no sense to me. You can get your “fix” much easier watching real porn…obviously people are watching the show for other reasons.
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I don’t think so. Different people prefer different sexual drugs. Immoral means immoral. A father told his kids he was going to add a tiny bit of dog excrement to their brownies before he finished making them. He said they wouldn’t be able to taste it. None of the kids had any.

It is reasonable to assume the people in charge of this show wanted those scenes in there. To get people used to them. To make them indifferent. And to eventually get people to accept them as if the idea of immoral didn’t exist.

Ed
 
Whalljim said:
I’ve read the books. The show is interesting, but I don’t watch it because of the brutality mainly.

I’m admittedly torn. The story is compelling in alot of ways. But as a huge LoTR fan Martin and (more often) his fans kind of bash Tolkien, which amazes me. He says he doesn’t like tropes and the way Gandalf came back.
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Of course he would not “get” Tolkien. I found this on wiki. * 'In response to a question on his religious views, Martin replied: “I suppose I’m a lapsed Catholic. You would consider me an atheist or agnostic.”*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._R._Martin I mean, spirituality of the author is going to come through, whether that spirituality is from God or Satan.
 
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