One Mediator question

[coolduude]

Well I don’t really understand this. How is it allowable for us Catholics to ask for intercession of the saints if there really is one mediator? Maybe I don’t understand the defintion of a ‘mediator’, but either way I’m confused as to how intercession is allowable. I read the CA article on this but I’m still confused
Any insight would be great here

Thanks,
coolduude

Note: I am not anti-Catholic or anything (I AM a Catholic!); I just want to understand my faith to the fullest.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Cool dude!

Christ’s Passion is the only way to salvation, so He is the only Mediator. No saint can offer up blood to God for anyone’s salvation apart from Christ’s Passion. Through Christ’s Passion alone are we saved. “By His wounds we are healed,” as Isaiah says.

Also, I would say Jesus is the one Intercessor as well. No one’s prayers or sacrifices are heard in Heaven unless they flow from Jesus within them. So Christ speaks, prays and suffers through us, fulfilling His role as Mediator and Intercessor through and in us. Remember how on the road to Damascus, when Saul was persecuting the Church, he heard Jesus say, “Why are you persecuting me?” By persecuting Christ’s Body, the Church, Saul was persecuting Jesus because Christ and His Body are one.

When a saint prays, it is Jesus in him motivating him to pray. So Jesus is still the one Intercessor, because He and the saint are united. When a saint offers sacrifice, it is offered up in unity with Christ’s sacrifice and without the Passion of Christ, the saint’s offering would be useless. Jesus gives the saint the strength and courage to make the sacrifice, gives him the grace, and mediates through the saint. The saint does nothing without Jesus’ mediation.

Only through Christ are we saved, His Passion, His Intercession, His Mediation. However, Christ is not separate from His Body. He prays through the Church, suffers through the Church and acts all over the world through the Church. Therefore when saints in Heaven offer their intercession, they are not depriving Christ of His role as the One Intercessor or One Mediator. They are acting in unity with Him, motivated by Him, and are acting only in Him and through Him. He is everything in what they do and are. They can do nothing independent of His Mediation. Without Him we are less than nothing. Even the Virgin Mary would be nothing without His Mediation, His Passion, His Intercession, His Sacrifice and Love.

 

[FCEGM]

Well I don’t really understand this. How is it allowable for us Catholics to ask for intercession of the saints if there really is one mediator? Maybe I don’t understand the defintion of a ‘mediator’, but either way I’m confused as to how intercession is allowable. I read the CA article on this but I’m still confused
Any insight would be great here

Thanks,
coolduude

Note: I am not anti-Catholic or anything (I AM a Catholic!); I just want to understand my faith to the fullest.

This is the relevant passage: 1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is only one God, and there is only one mediator between God and humanity, himself a human being, Christ Jesus, who offered himself as a ransom for all.”

Don’t confuse Jesus’ office as our sole Mediator with prayer. If the passage did refer to prayer, then what the passage would be saying is that Jesus is the only one who can pray to the Father for us. Even we would not be permitted to pray for ourselves let alone others, as it states clearly that Jesus is the only mediator, not us.

However the term mediator does not refer to prayer. It refers to Christ as the only instrument of reconcilation between God and man. The context of the passage itself is the urging of prayer on behalf of everyone.If the above passage refered to prayer, then the passage makes no sense as it would be stating that only Jesus can pray. To ask a saint to pray for us is in no way a violation of this scripture verse.

A Catholic should always keep in mind the truth that we enjoy Communion with one another - including “our brothers and sisters who have gone before us marked with the sign of faith” - because of our Communion with THE Communion of the Divine Persons of the Most Holy Trinity through the sole mediation of Our Lord. Being in Christ we are in union with all that is His - including His Mother - and so our prayer to her or to any of the Saints or Blesseds reflects our incorporation into the One Mystical Body of Christ.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

Jesus is the mediator with the Father. Saints mediate grace through Jesus.

As I said in another thread, Saints mediation of grace through Jesus does not change the fact that Jesus is the sole mediator of the Father.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Maybe some examples will help illustrate my point.

James 5:16, “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.”

1 Timothy 2:1-4, “I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”

Romans 15:30, “I beseech you, therefore, brethren, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the charity of the Holy Ghost, that you help me in your prayers for me to God.”

Philippians 1:3-4, “I give thanks to my God in every remembrance of you, always in all my prayers making supplication for you all.”

According to the 1 Timothy passage, our prayers help bring about the salvation of mankind. How can that be when Christ is the one Mediator? Because Christ in our hearts motivates our prayer, Christ answers our prayer, Christ is in our prayer throughout. Christ alone is acting as Intercessor and Mediator through us and if we prayed outside of Him, our prayers would be nothing. This is about the unity of the Church. Christ is the Head of the Church, according to Scripture, and we are His Body. The Head and the Body are one and do all things together, but the Body can do absolutely nothing without the Head’s direction and will.

You see, when Protestants complain about the intercession of saints in Heaven, they tend to forget that they are all fine with the intercession of saints on Earth and they all agree that the intercession of saints on Earth does not stop Jesus from being the One Mediator. The reason this is a stumbling block for them is that they don’t have a solid teaching on the unity of the Church, Head and Body, all fully integrated and working together, Heaven and Earth intersecting in Christ.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

However the term mediator does not refer to prayer. It refers to Christ as the only instrument of reconcilation between God and man. The context of the passage itself is the urging of prayer on behalf of everyone.If the above passage refered to prayer, then the passage makes no sense as it would be stating that only Jesus can pray. To ask a saint to pray for us is in no way a violation of this scripture verse.\

Well, saints offer sacrifices for the salvation of souls as well as prayers. However, all true sacrifices and prayers of the Body of Christ are motivated by the Head, Christ Himself, and come from Him and take place in Him and through Him. Therefore His Mediation is not in the least hindered, whether Mediation encompasses prayer or not. For all true prayer comes from Him and in Him and through Him, and without Him there is no prayer that will be heard. Thus He remains the One Mediator whether intercession is included or not.

I love how in Catholicism, the Body is so completely and beautifully united with the Head, without any division, while simultaneously these teachings do not reduce Christ in the slightest. In fact, these teachings of the Communion of Saints only magnify Christ by revealing Him in us more fully!

 

[FCEGM]

Well, saints offer sacrifices for the salvation of souls as well as prayers. However, all true sacrifices and prayers of the Body of Christ are motivated by the Head, Christ Himself, and come from Him and take place in Him and through Him. Therefore His Mediation is not in the least hindered, whether Mediation encompasses prayer or not. For all true prayer comes from Him and in Him and through Him, and without Him there is no prayer that will be heard. Thus He remains the One Mediator whether intercession is included or not.

I love how in Catholicism, the Body is so completely and beautifully united with the Head, without any division, while simultaneously these teachings do not reduce Christ in the slightest. In fact, these teachings of the Communion of Saints only magnify Christ by revealing Him in us more fully!

Excellent points, Leif.

 

[Monica4316]

Well I don’t really understand this. How is it allowable for us Catholics to ask for intercession of the saints if there really is one mediator? Maybe I don’t understand the defintion of a ‘mediator’, but either way I’m confused as to how intercession is allowable. I read the CA article on this but I’m still confused
Any insight would be great here

Thanks,
coolduude

Note: I am not anti-Catholic or anything (I AM a Catholic!); I just want to understand my faith to the fullest.

there’s a difference between mediator and intercessor

Jesus is the only Mediator for our salvation between us and the Father.

the Saints are intercessors. (they pray for us, like we pray for one another)

Mary shares in Jesus’ one mediation without being a distinct mediator… she’s also a very powerful intercessor

…if interceding for someone meant mediating, we’d all be mediators whenever we pray for others… but there’s a difference

 

[JRKH]

Many wonderful responses and I really have nothing to add except to say this.

We should all remember that, while prayers to saints is allowed and even encouraged by the Church, it is not a requirement. No Catholic need ask a saint for intercession if it makes them uncomfortable.

The only reason I mention this is because we sometimes have this come up in discussions with protestants who are investigating /considering The Church and/or thinking of converting.
For such people I try to explain the reasons for asking for intecession, but always add that, if they are uncomfortable with it, then don’t do it. Simply continue to pray directly to The Father, or directly to Jesus.

Peace
James

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Many wonderful responses and I really have nothing to add except to say this.

We should all remember that, while prayers to saints is allowed and even encouraged by the Church, it is not a requirement. No Catholic need ask a saint for intercession if it makes them uncomfortable.

The only reason I mention this is because we sometimes have this come up in discussions with protestants who are investigating /considering The Church and/or thinking of converting.
For such people I try to explain the reasons for asking for intecession, but always add that, if they are uncomfortable with it, then don’t do it. Simply continue to pray directly to The Father, or directly to Jesus.

Peace
James

Though they are required to agree with the dogma of the Council of Trent that affirms the total legitimacy and value of asking saints for their intercession.

 

[RobNY]

Jesus is the one High Priest, and yet are we not all a priestly people by virtue of baptism?

Jesus is the only true King, and the King of kings, and yet are we not royal by virtue of baptism?

God alone is divine, and yet do we not become partakers of the divine nature by baptism?

Jesus is the one true Mediator, but aren’t we made little mediators in His image by our baptism as well?

This ‘either/or’ mentality always assumes that some things are exclusive. These things belong by right and nature to Jesus Christ, but we have a certain participation in them through grace. Jesus shares all of these incredible gifts with us which may be ‘uniquely’ His by right and by nature, but which are our special gifts as little Christs, as Christians.

We are suppose to imitate Him in all things, and so we become little mediators, dependent on Him for whatever ‘power’ we have.

God bless,
Rob

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Excellent answer, Rob! You’re pointing out the deep unity that exists between the Body of Christ and her Head. 1 Corinthians 12 describes this wonderfully, but my favorite passage of all describing the unity is John 17:22, “And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one.” Unity akin to the Trinity! That is what God has in mind for His Body. That we be one as He and the Father are one. It can’t get any more marvelous than that!

 

[aspirant]

Context helps a lot. Here’s what Paul really wrote:

I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

When we read the green part in context, especially those red parts, does it exclude us praying for one another? Does it exclude other forms of ministering to one another? No, the green is the foundation of the red.

Here’s a helpful article.

 

[JRKH]

Though they are required to agree with the dogma of the Council of Trent that affirms the total legitimacy and value of asking saints for their intercession.

Right. Thank you for pointing that out. It is iimportant that any convert know and accept that the Church triumphant is not “asleep” but is constantly praying before the throne.

Also, we do ask for the intercession of saints as a community at mass as well.

But as far as private, individual prayer goes it remains a purely personal matter.
This is what I try to get across because it sometimes seems to protestants that we catholics are somehow prohibited from praying directly to the Father or to Christ for grace or favors. This, of course is completely wrong and I wish to make sure they know this.

Peace
James

 

[Erethorn]

I wish to thank everyone for their answers, (and not just the ones on this thread) they are of great help to me, and others, I am sure, in understanding my new found faith.

One simple way of looking at the matter that I’ve found is a judicial analogy:

When people go into the courthouse, they are looking for Justice, which is embodied in the Law. The Law, or Justice, would be God.

The one that mediates between the plaintiff and the Law is the judge. No one can get justice, no one can get the Law applied in their particular case unless a judge rules. The judge would be Jesus - the One who gives us access to God.

Although one could go before a judge by himself (pray only to Jesus and God), in practice it is advisable so have someone representing you. That could be a friend who is somewhat more knowledgeable in the judicial system (another person praying for you, a friend etc.) or a professional - a lawyer (BVM, saints). The lawyer simply knows better than you how the system works. And, more often than not, he knows the judges, because he spends most of his time in their presence.

But no matter how good the lawyer, you will always get your Justice from the Judge.

 

[jlhargus]

there’s a difference between mediator and intercessor

Jesus is the only Mediator for our salvation between us and the Father.

the Saints are intercessors. (they pray for us, like we pray for one another)

Mary shares in Jesus’ one mediation without being a distinct mediator… she’s also a very powerful intercessor

…if interceding for someone meant mediating, we’d all be mediators whenever we pray for others… but there’s a difference

JL: Monica, I would say, not only Mary, but all share in Jesus’ one mediation. When we make prayers of intercession or witness to Christ to unbeliever’s we are mediating, we are an advocate, we are called to be co-workers or co-redeemers with Christ. Our mediation is dependent on Christ’s unique mediatorship, it is only in union with him we can mediate. In Him, through Him, with Him in the unity of the Holy Spirit. Christ shares all he is with his people. His life, by the indwelling Holy Spirit, his priesthood, we are a priestly people, His ministerial priesthood. We are all co-workers with him. We are co-heirs with Him. WITH Christ we can do all things.

The New Expanded Webster’s Dictionary defines it (although terms can change over time) as follows:

Mediator. One who mediates, an intercessor, an advocate.

Mediation, Act of mediating, intercession, entreaty for another