One Mediator

[puppypatrol]

OK but, show me where it says IN THE BIBLE that Christ cannot mediate from the Father to us through other people. Then, show me IN THE BIBLE where it says that Mary and the saints cannot intercess with Christ for us for Him to take our requests to the Father.

 

[holy_moly]

Jesus said He would send a comforter, the Holy Spirit. Mary nor any saint is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the bridge for us to the Son.

  Peace,   Golfjack

gj, you’re awfully cavalier about Jesus’ mother.
Jesus = Son of God
Mary = mother of Jesus
therefore, Mary = the Mother of God

Note, I did not say that Mary is equal to any of the Trinity, but she is WAY above all humanity & all saints… “all generations will call me Blessed”

Do you golfjack? :heaven:

Whatever hunger that brings you to a Catholic site, I am praying for…

 

[MDK]

Without him as mediator there is no way for salvation. When you standing before God and
he ask what have with my son…he steps him in and saids “he’s good… he is one of mine” Then God saids come on in my good and faithful servent and recieve your reward.

God bless

Your statement requires clarification, as I’m not confident that you really write about what it means to be an authentic Christian as Jesus established, rather than choosing what we want or don’t want. In your post, what does it really mean to be “one of His” as an authentic Christian? Do we determine that by just saying we are? Is there any obedience required to do what Christ commanded, like eathing His Body and drinking His Blood, in remembrance of Him? Do we have to forgive others, or do we just say that we believe Jesus is the Christ, and we are then “one of His” guaranteed of eternal salvation?

 

[MDK]

Jesus said He would send a comforter, the Holy Spirit. Mary nor any saint is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the bridge for us to the Son.

Peace, Golfjack

It’s obvious from what you write, that they Holy Spirit is not guiding you in this path of understanding the Son and His relationship to His mother. She is Queen of Heaven, the Immaculate Conception, the Mother of God, the Ark of the New Covenant… She is our spiritual mother… She is the greatest of all of God’s creations… no one else in the Bible was identified as being “full of grace.” She is greater than Moses, Elijah, all the prophets and Apostles. Nobody who knows and respects the truth as taught by the Holy Spirit would write as you have.

 

[puppypatrol]

Jesus said He would send a comforter, the Holy Spirit. Mary nor any saint is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the bridge for us to the Son.
Peace, Golfjack

No one said that Mary or the Saints were the Holy Spirit or God. Where does it say that Jesus in union with the Holy Spirit doesn’t use these people to mediate from us to him? Where does it say he doesn’t listen to their intercessions for us?

From Timothy:
1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul’s teaching about Jesus as the “one mediator,” Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?

1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.

1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

These are good and support the Catholic position on intercessory prayer. It is no different asking Mary and the Saints to intercess for us than it is asking our friends to pray for us.

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
That is exclusive. Salvation is only found in Jesus.

Where is the word “only”. We aren’t saying that this statement is wrong and that Christ isn’t our one Mediator with the Father. The question is where does it say in the Bible that Christ doesn’t listen to others who pray for us to Him.

Without him as mediator there is no way for salvation. When you standing before God and he ask what have with my son…he steps him in and saids “he’s good… he is one of mine” Then God saids come on in my good and faithful servent and recieve your reward.

God bless

We are not talking about Salvation. We are speaking of what the Bible teaches about the intercession of Saints and Mary. Perhaps you should read the entire paragraph in Matthew 25:31-46. Your reward in heaven (salvation) depends on what you do with your life here on earth and how you show your faith (works). You have to read and understand verses in context and not create a meaning where it doesn’t exist.

 

[BMSODM]

But it does say Christ is the only way…

To the Father, but were does it say there is only one way to the cross?

 

[BMSODM]

Allow me please to play the role of “d.a.” on this particular comment as written **

While your statement is certainly true, it is also true that Catholics do pray “to and THROUGH” Mary and the Saints, as they are in a position to aid our cause and see God “face to face.”

I would however disagree “that they are all the same.”

Mary is after all the Very Mother of God, one should not doubt her highly favored position
[Lk. 1:26] and the preference that God rightly gives to Her.

The Cross of Christ*** and ***OUR CROSS are both necessary for ones Salvation.

Luke 9: 23 "And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake, he will save it"

It’s not so much what we say, as what we do and DON"T DO! That speaks volumes to God.

God has given us His Seven Sacraments and the men to validate them and make them present to us; BUT it is our responsibility, our duty to use them often and worthily. We, you and me, decide on eternal heaven or eternal hell; Christ only affirms our decission.

Love and prayers,

I agree sometimes my words fail me. I think we are all different and serve a different purpose. We are instruments including the saints and each tool serves a different purpose but just like any tool its worthless on its own. It needs to be put into a skilled carpenters hand in order for it to be effective. And that is what the saints are as well as us. We do no good of our own we must be guided by the holy spirit to be effective and that is nothing more then the Father and Sons Love united. We are empty unless we are filled by this love and so its there love that brings us as well as others to the Father. So it is Jesus all along that is the way the truth and the life because without the way we can not go and without the truth we can not know and without the life we can not live.

 

[golfjack]

MDK, You are proving my point about the many assumptions of the Catholic Church. If we were to pray to Mary, God would have made no doubt about it. Also, you are spiritualizing scripture by saying Mary is the queen of heaven. Come on now, do you take me as an idiot.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[MDK]

MDK, You are proving my point about the many assumptions of the Catholic Church. If we were to pray to Mary, God would have made no doubt about it. Also, you are spiritualizing scripture by saying Mary is the queen of heaven. Come on now, do you take me as an idiot.

Peace, Golfjack

In truth, nothing that I posted would “prove” your point. You are “proving” your point based on simply what you want to believe. No authentic Christian believes what you say in this regard. It’s like you do with God’s word, as it’s just based on what you want to believe, regardless of 2,000 years of authentic Christianity, regardless of the Godly Traditions that the Apostles handed on to those who were orgainically ordained byt them and so on, regardless of what Scriptures actually teach, and regardless of what the Holy Spirit has inspired.

One who says that they believe what Jesus taught, and yet prefer their own reason above His… may qualify for what you’ve asked… because they are really not educated in regard to authentic Christianity.

The NT was written by Catholics. The Catholic Church wrote the table of contents of the Bible. The Catholic Church was built and is protected by Christ from error in faith an morals. Yet, you believe you know better. This would qualify for what you’ve asked. I don’t take you for an idiot, otherwise I would not bother telling you these beautiful truths. Apparently, you treat yourself worse than I do, by believing yourself above Jesus.

Mary is indeed Queen of Heaven. If you don’t believe the Queen Mother sits at the right hand of the King, then for starters please read the OT in regard to Solomon. The Davidic Kingdom was a precursor to the New Covenant Kingdom with Christ as King. Christ also protected this position when asked if two could sit at His right and left hand. Jesus said he could not, because it was reserved for someone.

Would an intelligent person think they know more than the Church built by Christ, protected by the Holy Spirit in matters of teaching faith and morals, which has His Seven Sacraments and Bishops with organic link of ordination to the Apostles, and with the Head Bishop’s office (Peter) in whom Christ built His Church upon? No, they would not. If that shoe fits, I recommend changing shoes. It’s not me who treats you poorly, but you do this to yourself. Please stop and come over to authentic Christianity the way Christ established it. If you prefer your own, based on your own interpretations of the Catholic Book, the Bible, then you will have your own religion. Please don’t then call yourself an authentic Christian. That, you are not.

 

[puppypatrol]

MDK, You are proving my point about the many assumptions of the Catholic Church. If we were to pray to Mary, God would have made no doubt about it. Also, you are spiritualizing scripture by saying Mary is the queen of heaven. Come on now, do you take me as an idiot.

      Peace,   Golfjack

Hummmm, I don’t think I will touch that last comment

Luke 1: 28, 35, 46 "And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.” …And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. … For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all **ages call me blessed. **

If Jesus is the Son of God, an of course He is, then Mary, by the incident of birth, is His Mother. Being a good Jewish Boy, Jesus would never have treated or even elluded to the idea that His mother was unimportant. He would have honored, blessed and raised her up. We, by our baptism, who have become brothers and sisters of Christ not only have His Father as our Father but we have His mother as our mother.

Luke 11: 27-28 "While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.”
He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

Christ made it very clear that Mary would be special for all time. In the above quote, the word “Rather” in Greek actually means “in addition to…” so Jesus was not disagreeing that the womb that carried Him and the breasts that nursed Him were blessed but Mary was more blessed because she heard the word of God and obeyed. God wanted His Son born of Mary but she still had “free will” and could have said no but she didn’t.

John 2:1-7 "On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” (And) Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you. Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim.

Here Jesus is showing us the role Mary will have in the New Covenant Kingdom and in our lives as well. When Jesus says “Woman, how does your concern affect me?” He is inviting her to make her request. If He were rebuking her, that would have been the end of the story but He invites her to interceed for the bridal party with Him. You will also notice that he honors her request and does what she asked.

By the way, not only is Scripture historical but it IS SPIRITUAL!!! And you still haven’t attempted to answer my question.

 

[holy_moly]

To the Father, but were does it say there is only one way to the cross?

I don’t know, where?