One mortal sin from hell...

[bmullins]

using grave and mortal in the same sentence

**2484 **The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.

**2539 **Envy is a capital sin. It refers to the sadness at the sight of another’s goods and the immoderate desire to acquire them for oneself, even unjustly. When it wishes grave harm to a neighbor it is a mortal sin:

Which illustrates my point exactly. If grave and mortal where the same thing, the catechism would have no need to use both in a single sentence. Grave would mean mortal, and mortal would mean grave. Once again, mortal sins are grave. Not all grave sins are mortal.

In your example of someone receiving a mortal wound, it’s only mortal if they die from it. Otherwise it was presumed to be a mortal wound and was not.

 

[brb3]

Pharisees weren’t condemned for legalism, they were condemned because they were hypocrits… they didn’t practice what they taught.[Mt 23:23…] Jesus also said, "do whatever they (i.e. the Pharisees) say because they sit on Moses seat… ".[Mt 23:1…]

As it turned out, Jesus gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of God. iow, the scribes and Pharisees got fired. That didn’t mean however there were no more rules and regs to follow. Now it is the Church He builds on Peter that is the one to follow. Can’t you just hear Jesus say, “Do whatever the popes say because they sit on Peter’s chair?”

good rejoinder … on point :tiphat:

 

[steve_b]

Which illustrates my point exactly. If grave and mortal where the same thing, the catechism would have no need to use both in a single sentence. Grave would mean mortal, and mortal would mean grave. Once again, mortal sins are grave. Not all grave sins are mortal.

I would suggest the meaning is the same so they CAN use it in the same sentence.

The distinction in the following passages, is made between grave injury or grave harm . “Grave” is the key in making a sin mortal. When something reaches the level of grave status, that’s when an action is mortal sin. If it is not grave, then it is not mortal.

**2484 **The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.

**2539 **Envy is a capital sin. It refers to the sadness at the sight of another’s goods and the immoderate desire to acquire them for oneself, even unjustly. When it wishes grave harm to a neighbor it is a mortal sin:

If grave has a squishy meaning, no one would be clear on the meaning of grave or mortal…true? . Therefore, I would think given our fallen tendancies, if the definition was squishy, we would lean towards reducing all our offenses to misdemeanors or no offense at all. I think that might be the problem Paul ran into with the Galatians. So he had to warn them as sternly as he could, that they would not inherit heaven with these sins he mentions, if they are on their souls at death. [Gal 5:19-21] i.e. they are mortal sins.

If one is looking for lists of mortal sins in scripture there is one pretty good list.
b:

In your example of someone receiving a mortal wound, it’s only mortal if they die from it.

True. And in the spiritual sense, the soul suffers a mortal wound with regards sanctifying grace and charity, with reference to God
b:

Otherwise it was presumed to be a mortal wound and was not.

With regards to sin, If it’s that close of a call, in one’s mind, it’s wise imo, to treat the offense as mortal and confess it as if it was mortal.

 

[brb3]

Grave sin becomes mortal … if unconfessed. All grave sin is reversible/pardonable, if we repent and confess to Christ, and later [in keeping with desire of Christ] … we admit it [judge ourselves] before our earthly Priests. God desires us to do TWO things [not either/or … but, BOTH]. We must exercise our Faith first … by believing Christ can/will do what he has promised us [forgive our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us]. But, then we must ACT on our faith, and ‘publically’ confess to our earthly priest. God knows our intentions, about seeing the local priest ASAP, … and our conscience will remind us of this, until we follow thru on our promise to Christ.

There is only ONE unpardonable, Mortal sin,[for a Baptized/Confirmed Christian] … which puts us over the brink w/o recourse of later confession. Apostasy, rejection of Christ, the Father, & Holy Spirit. The Judas sin. Paul in Hebrews 6:4-8 discusses in detail. It begins in verse 4 saying "For it is IMPOSSIBLE TO RESTORE AGAIN TO REPENTANCE those who have ONCE BEEN ENLIGHTENED, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, … if they COMMIT APOSTASY,since they CRUCIFY THE SON OF GOD on their own account and HOLD HIM UP TO CONTEMPT.

W/O a doubt, Paul is specifically referring to the Judas sin here. The circumstances of Judas’s sin … and the language Paul uses here … fit Judas’ betrayal exactly. In the first centuries of the Church, during the Roman reign, when the Christians were being betrayed to Caesar by the unbelieving Jews … a Christian had to stand firm and not deny Christ. If one did, and renounced belief in Christ as Lord, and pledged allegiance to Caesar as God … he/she were released an not martyred. But, the Church saw this as the Judas sin … and offered no recovery option for this person. They were bannished.

Later, the Church began to look with more mercy upon those who had been TORTURED before they recanted. Those who had recanted under severe duress were allowed recourse to recovery … via Confession and a prolonged period of penance.

It would seem right to adopt the more lenient tradition, given the severe torture techniques the cruel Romans used in those days.

 

[Philthy]

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the END OF THE LAW, that every one who has FAITH may be justified. Philthy … Christ takes all our Mortal Sins, upon himself…

What LAW - exactly - are you talking about, and what is it’s relationship to mortal sin today? Take an entire post to address this one issue if you need to…

The Law began, and ends in him.

Ends in Him? I don’t know what you are talking about. The Law of Love which begins and ends in Him remains. Christ did not come to “abolish the law, but to fulfill it”. All who remain in His love - by “abiding in” him, fulfill the law of love. Gal 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Provided we confess/repent of them … on regular basis. For some Catholics to teach that the INSTANT we commit a Mortal Sin, we go from saved to unsaved status … until we see and confess to a Priest is not c/w God’s mercy and love for his Sons/Daughters.

First off, a mortal sin is - by definition - a sin which causes one to “fall from grace” (see Gal 5:4;/Eph 5:5/1Cor 6:9/Matt 6:14 for context), and should one die in that state they would have “no inheritance in the Kingdom of God”, so yes we go from “saved to unsaved”. We can have a true repentance, perfect contrition of heart and confess the sin and have forgiveness apart from sacramental confession. It is BEST to have all of that AND seek absolution through the visible means established by Christ.

It’s also no longer practically possible, by our Church’s confessional schedule.

Not only is this a very weak claim since priests are always available for confession, but it is obviated by my explanation above.

Who can go a week w/o commiting a thought sin ?

Now, are we all LINED UP on Sat. afternoon … for that short 3:30-4 pm confession offered by our Church … the single occasion of confession offered right before the 4PM Sat. Mass & the 3 Sunday masses ? Everytime I go for Confession … I’m either the only one there, or I encounter only 1-2 others. Are our Priests sleeping well each Sat. nite … knowing 99.9 % of their flock has probably committed a mortal that week, and not coming in to Confession ? Why has the Annual Confession become the Norm … for perhaps 20 % of Catholics, with the other 80 % not even making Confession annually ? Does your Priest give homilies on this matter ? Mine don’t !!!

This is all great, but really has very little to do with the topic

Our only hope it to confess our sins AT ONCE to CHRIST … and be absolved of them by Him. And, to go FREQUENTLY to Confessional with our Priests …

This is, of course, Catholic. Repent and seek absolution.

and our Priest seem to know it, and don’t admonish us for not doing so.

??? Are you reading peoples minds now?

By the way … its become primarily Confession… since 2 out of 3 times the Priests Absolve us w/o giving ANY Penance !!! I even told Priest at my last confession I expected to receive Penance … and I got none. Its almost to the point we have to ask Christ to make us suffer for our faults, when we confess to him … so as to help us break bad habits and form better habits.

Salvation is always a gift - you need a Priest to make you suffer. Christ bore our suffering - remember?? You led off with that…

Am I wrong in my conclusions … as a new Catholic learning Catholic reality ?

We can commit sins which cause us to go from saved to unsaved - they are called mortal sin.
We should confess them immediately to God and we should seek Sacramental absolution as soon as we can. Thats it.
Did you really add anything to these two Catholic teachings with what you said? If you think you did, let me know and I’ll give you my opinion as to whether I think you are right or wrong.

blessings!

 

[Philthy]

Sorry - I meant to say…

Salvation is always a gift - you don’t need a Priest to make you suffer in order to be absolved. Christ bore our suffering - remember?? You led off with that…

 

[Ignatius]

Today someone told me that Catholics are just one mortal sin from hell…

He’s wrong, we are just one repentence away from eternal salvation.
Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on my.

 

[steve_b]

Grave sin becomes mortal … if unconfessed.

sin is mortal because it’s a grave offense against God and one is guilty of mortal sin by commiting it.

brb:

All grave sin is reversible/pardonable, if we repent and confess to Christ, and later [in keeping with desire of Christ] … we admit it [judge ourselves] before our earthly Priests.

When one commits a mortal sin they are not to receive the Eucharist until they go to confession. Being sorry is not enough unless one is in danger of death and the sacrament of reconciliation is not available

**1457 **According to the Church’s command, “after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.” Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession. Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.

As scripture describes, non mortal sin can be prayed about for forgiveness, but John says, it’s not enough for mortal sin. As the CCC states, unless one is in danger of death and the sacrament of reconcilliation is not available…

1 Jn 5:
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

 

[brb3]

sin is mortal because it’s a grave offense against God and one is guilty of mortal sin by commiting it.

grave sin becomes mortal, if unconfessed to GOD, & later to our Priests [ASAP].
Not either / or … but, BOTH. At least for the Catholics.

For Protestants, who don’t realize this obligation & don’t have priests … confession to God, via Christ … should spare them death.

 

[brb3]

What LAW - exactly -

What Paul meant … he wrote it

 

[brb3]

Ends in Him? I don’t know what you are talking about. ]

I think you do … what Paul meant

 

[maplebug55]

Please state the church teaching on this very very important matter. I have seen time and time again on this forum that if one dies with a mortal sin they go to hell, no ifs ands or butts.

When were talking salvation it needs to be taken seriously.

Now either the Church teaches they do or they don’t , which is it.

Thank you.

That is what I have been taught. The key is UNREPENTED MORTAL SIN . If a person is truly sorry and has perfect contrition (which is rare, but possible) they can get to heaven. But it is best to have Mortal sin completely removed in the sacrament of reconciliation.
Then u get a fresh start!

 

[brb3]

Christ bore our suffering - remember?? You led off with that…

Yes, but …

Paul talks to this point. Paul says he is Suffering for those early Christians he brought into the faith …to ‘complete’ his IMITATION of Christ, his taking up his own Cross … as Christ obligated him/us to do.

 

[steve_b]

grave sin becomes mortal, if unconfessed to GOD, & later to our Priests [ASAP].
Not either / or … but, BOTH. At least for the Catholics.

Mortal sin is mortal on its own. WHEN a mortal sin is commited, one is guilty immediately of mortal sin on their soul. And one needs sacramental confession ASAP or they are walking around in mortal sin while unconfessed, sacramentally.

brb:

For Protestants, who don’t realize this obligation & don’t have priests … confession to God, via Christ … should spare them death.

How then do Protestants get around the following?

1 Jn 5:
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

• Is that passage in protestant bibles? Yes.
• Are they excused from that? No.
• Is that passage only for Catholics? No.

Protestants have no authority to reinvent Christianity just because they don’t have the complete faith. Bottomline, there are consequences for being seperated from Church.

Also consider this: We see what John said above.

Here’s the CCC making a similar distinction and giving the following instruction

***1457 *According to the Church’s command, “after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.” Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession. Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.

iow, a Catholic in danger of death, and no possibility for sacramental confession, can receive the Eucharist if they have deep contrition for their mortal sins. That doesn’t take the place of sacramental absolution and the need to confess their mortal sins if they should not die.

Example:

A Catholic is a patient in the hospital. They are near death. A Eucharistic minister (not a priest) comes around to give Catholics the Eucharist. This particular Catholic patient is going to die, and can’t wait for the priest to come. The patient hasn’t recived sacramental reconciliation and knows they have mortal sin(s) on their soul. In this situation the Church allows receiving the Eucharist for that person in proximity of death. If they pull through, and don’t die, they must confess their mortal sins to a priest ASAP. People just don’t realize how important this issue is.

1. • If Jesus said just confess your sins in prayer to me in private and it’s over, regardless of gravity, and left it there, ( no caveots, no qualifications, no additions) then the case is over…right?
   • But He gave the apostles whom He ordained, the power to forgive or retain sin.
   Why did Jesus do that if the 1st is all that’s required?
   
   Think about it. There’s no need to confess to a priest if the 1st is all that is needed…true? John explained in that passage above, that there is a distinction in sin, thus the need for the 2nd as a remedy to rid the soul of mortal sin. Since John is writing under the inspiration of the HS he knows what Jesus wants.
   
   In our Blessed Mother’s last words spoken in scripture, “do whatever He tells you.” So we do what Jesus wants His way.

 

[Philthy]

What Paul meant … he wrote it

Can you not answer the question? If you wish to express ideas in an apologetics forum then you need to either be very clear with each word you type or be prepared to answer legitimate questions that naturally arise from the ambiguity that is created from what you actually write. This isn’t a poetry forum - it’s an apologetics forum.

 

[brb3]

Can you not answer the question?

Christ is the END OF THE LAW means, … the OT Law that says ‘the soul that sins must die’. Christ took our sins upon himself … and died in our stead … so our SOULS don’t die. All the guilt and shame, of all sins of mankind, fell upon him on the Cross. Yet he rose again, conquering sin in our stead … so that all who believe in the Son and confess our sins to him … might be Justified thru the Son, before the Father.

Christ is Both our legal counsel & holy sacrifice …who represents us before the Father as guiltless … Christ having paid our sentence for sins with his own life upon the Cross. Provided we confess our sins & pledge our obedience to the Father, thru the Son. He who honors the Son … honors the Father and obtains mercy via Amazing Grace … rather than the death we deserve.

Our Death Penalty … ENDS in Christ. Reborn, from death to new Life via Baptism [into Christ’s death], rising up out of the waters, as a New Creation, in the Lawgiver Christ. Nevertheless, receiving a NEW LAW of Life instead, by which we are to live via power of H.S. … the Beatitudes, the Law of Love.

Am I wrong ?

 

[brb3]

How then do Protestants get around the following?

1 Jn 5:
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

They can’t explain it very well … and most don’t try. Its a mystery to them.

Most don’t think we can pray to God to have another’s sins [venials] forgiven. They think that is God’s realm, and we shouldn’t presume to have such power or gall to think we could.

 

[Philthy]

Christ is the END OF THE LAW means, … the OT Law that says ‘the soul that sins must die’. Christ took our sins upon himself … and died in our stead … so our SOULS don’t die. All the guilt and shame, of all sins of mankind, fell upon him on the Cross. Yet he rose again, conquering sin in our stead … so that all who believe in the Son and confess our sins to him … might be Justified thru the Son, before the Father.

Christ is Both our legal counsel & holy sacrifice …who represents us before the Father as guiltless … Christ having paid our sentence for sins with his own life upon the Cross. Provided we confess our sins & pledge our obedience to the Father, thru the Son. He who honors the Son … honors the Father and obtains mercy via Amazing Grace … rather than the death we deserve.

Our Death Penalty … ENDS in Christ. Reborn, from death to new Life via Baptism [into Christ’s death], rising up out of the waters, as a New Creation, in the Lawgiver Christ. Nevertheless, receiving a NEW LAW of Life instead, by which we are to live via power of H.S. … the Beatitudes, the Law of Love.

Am I wrong ?

Wrong? It’s not a question of right or wrong - I simply asked you what law you were referring to. Your answer is the OT law. The problem I see here is that these comments don’t seem to quite address the original topic that you responded to in introducing the " end of the LAW" quote. Here is my original post you commented on:

Philthy:

your use of the term “Salvation Assurance” and it’s relationship to our “Sealing IN CHRIST”. What, exactly, are you trying to say? If it’s that because we are “sealed” in Christ that we cannot commit mortal sin and go to Hell, then I disagree with you

Now all your comments above are great, but the issue at hand is mortal sin and it’s relationship to going to Hell. Some might misconstrue some of what you’ve posted to mean that we DONT need to repent since we have been SEALED in Christ and that because of this sealing we can never be condemned. So I will ask you again YES or NO format:
Do you believe that because we are “sealed” in Christ that we cannot commit mortal sin and go to Hell? Yes or No?

 

[steve_b]

They can’t explain it very well … and most don’t try. Its a mystery to them.

Most don’t think we can pray to God to have another’s sins [venials] forgiven. They think that is God’s realm, and we shouldn’t presume to have such power or gall to think we could.

If Protestants tell their pastor about their sins and they pray together, that Protestant pastor can’t forgive mortal sins of another. And as John says, one shouldn’t count on prayer for the forgiveness of mortal sin. John clarifies, venial (non mortal) sins are forgiven with prayer but not mortal.

Since it’s John’s gospel that records Jesus giving the apostles the power to forgive and retain sins, ALL sins, John is clarifying what to do with venial sin, but mortal sin is different. A validly ordained priest therefore, is how one rids themselves of mortal sins…as he says in [Jn 20:23]

 

[Luvtosew]

If Protestants tell their pastor about their sins and they pray together, that Protestant pastor can’t forgive mortal sins of another. And as John says, one shouldn’t count on prayer for the forgiveness of mortal sin. John clarifies, venial (non mortal) sins are forgiven with prayer but not mortal.

Since it’s John’s gospel that records Jesus giving the apostles the power to forgive and retain sins, ALL sins. John is clarifying what to do with venial sin, but mortal sin is different. A validly ordained priest therefore, is how one rids themselves of mortal sins…[Jn 20:23]

Why not it says to confess your sins one to another , no where does it say Priest.